Fudzilla: Bulldozer performance figures are in

[trollolo]

that is one sexy mainboard

 

[Despoiler]

that is one sexy mainboard

I def love the "blacked out" look.

 

[drizek]

Announcing projects and plans only to then retreat and cancel them in their original form is Intel's thing, not really AMD's.

I think you're very wrong about that.

-- Sent from my Moorestown Phone using the Tapatalk for Moblin App

 

[Cogman]

I wonder if BD (as we know it today) will ever be released? Kinda reminds me of Larrabee. We kept seeing teasers and promises, but nothing ever came from it.

Larrabee was never as far along in the design process as this is. There comes a point in a project where cancelling it would be just a big waist of money. You are better to just release what you have and make whatever money you can.

 

[trollolo]

I think you're very wrong about that.

-- Sent from my Moorestown Phone using the Tapatalk for Moblin App

i think you're wrong about that

-- sent from my WP7 device using Internet explorer mobile and AT&T's fabulous 3g network brought to you by the glorious people's republic of korea.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Can you remember of a situation or two where the same AMD needing higher margins on their products released a faster product for less than the competition?

Not really, no. The Phenom II X6 1090T was somewhat faster than the Core i7-860 on multi-threaded and slower in single-threaded and was priced $10 higher at $295. The Phenom II X4 940 was a tiny bit faster than the Core 2 Q9400 and had a $275 asking price, $40 higher. Intel cut prices quickly, and AMD found themselves lowering the price because of the Q9450 and Q9550. Earlier than that AMD had the Phenom 9950, which not only costed more than the Core 2 Quad Q6600, but overclocked a lot less and consumed a considerable amount more power. Earlier than that, AMD had the (Windsor) Athlon 64 X2, and the Pentium Ds were overall competitive, but with much higher power consumption. So that's six years where we haven't seen that pan out.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Not really, no. The Phenom II X6 1090T was somewhat faster than the Core i7-860 on multi-threaded and slower in single-threaded and was priced $10 higher at $295. The Phenom II X4 940 was a tiny bit faster than the Core 2 Q9400 and had a $275 asking price, $40 higher. Intel cut prices quickly, and AMD found themselves lowering the price because of the Q9450 and Q9550. Earlier than that AMD had the Phenom 9950, which not only costed more than the Core 2 Quad Q6600, but overclocked a lot less and consumed a considerable amount more power. Earlier than that, AMD had the (Windsor) Athlon 64 X2, and the Pentium Ds were overall competitive, but with much higher power consumption. So that's six years where we haven't seen that pan out.

So the GPU division of AMD is a different entity?

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

So the GPU division of AMD is a different entity?

Pretty much, yes. I'd say AMD has dominated the GPU market ever since the Radeon HD 4000 series because of their excellent price/performance and performance/watt. To say that NVIDIA is currently the best out of the two overall when it comes to GPUs is simply foolish. AMD has had the overall lead ever since mid 2008.

 

[podspi]

I think you're very wrong about that.

-- Sent from my Moorestown Phone using the Tapatalk for Moblin App

Where'd you find that? :sneaky:

 

[psolord]

Good point. Hopefully it's just them and not major retailers.

Side note, anyone seen the new ASRock AM3+ Extreme3 board?

A new BD 8150 would look really good in that

*Disclaimer: Assuming BD lives up to expectations

Very basic cpu vrm. Why not the extreme 4 or better yet the professional? 12+2 digi vrm that's more like it!

I'd hope they had something like the Z68 professional though. I can really use these 10 sata.

 

[StrangerGuy]

First a gaming machine is an evolving system - Mobo/CPU are the parts that are mostly replaced after the GPU (and failing PSU).

The rest of the system will remain the same a long time - in case of an upgrade, around $700-800 of those $1000 won't matter.

The price difference will be considerably higher than just 8%.

Even if you just consider a basic $100 mobo 2500K pulls ahead of 955BE price/performance/power/OC headroom. Once you add RAM, or/and splurge on premium mobos AMD is left in the dust.

 

[RiDE]

How big is Tankguys? I've never heard of them. Are they or their distributor too small to get priority on the first shipments?

I've known about Tank guys since the Opteron 146 frenzy days when they were selling it for $160 while the FX-55 was still at $800. Good times.

 

[NostaSeronx]

Very basic cpu vrm. Why not the extreme 4 or better yet the professional? 12+2 digi vrm that's more like it!

I'd hope they had something like the Z68 professional though. I can really use these 10 sata.

AMD Motherboards are weird

The setup is actually 4+1 with dual thingy mobbers

so the ASRock Pro 990FX is actually 6+1 over 4+1 of the competitors

 

[Avalon]

How big is Tankguys? I've never heard of them. Are they or their distributor too small to get priority on the first shipments?

Tankguys is a fairly small business, but Ben runs a tight ship. He's always catered to the overclockers and been extremely helpful, plus he always manages to somehow get in high demand items at reasonable prices. Great place!

 

[GaiaHunter]

Even if you just consider a basic $100 mobo 2500K pulls ahead of 955BE price/performance/power/OC headroom. Once you add RAM, or/and splurge on premium mobos AMD is left in the dust.

I'll repeat - I wasn't doing any considerations about what is the better buy currently, only attacking the argument that individual component price is irrelevant once you consider full system price - it is only true if you are buying a complete rig.

What is better to buy at a given time changes.

Unlocking the L3$ of an AII X4 940 or unlocking a Phenom II X2/X3 to X4 instead of buying an i5 760 system could be quite rewarding last year (with Europe prices with no newegg or whatever) - it got me free mb, free cooler and some money to invest on a GPU (basically the difference between a 5770 and a 6850/GTX460).

At the moment an i5 2500k is a more attractive route.

If that will change with the release of BD, time will tell.

 

[Idontcare]

Do I smell another new stepping, or fab issues? Latest quote from Tankguys' AMD Bulldozer pre-order.......

Timing doesn't work out quite right for it to be a new stepping. Could just be more time needed to get enough chips in hand so as not avoid doing a paper-launch.

 

[RussianSensation]

Even if you just consider a basic $100 mobo 2500K pulls ahead of 955BE price/performance/power/OC headroom. Once you add RAM, or/and splurge on premium mobos AMD is left in the dust.

Ya, honestly I don't think the customer looking to buy a performance processor like a 2500k is the same customer that's looking to buy a budget 955BE:

1) The argument of 955BE vs. 2500k is a questionable one since these 2 processors are aimed at 2 different users/ performance segments. 955BE is at best equal to Q6600 in IPC. So a 4.5ghz 2500k is at least = 6.3ghz 955BE. Most 955s overclock to what 3.8ghz? Is $100 extra a lot to pay for 65% more performance? To me, easily. Also, 955BE overclocked is only about as fast as an overclocked Q6600. Some people aren't happy buying a CPU with performance of a 2007 CPU in 2011.

2) Even when comparing X6 @ $160, most people still choose the more expensive 2500k. Why? Because a ton of us play Blizzard games like WOW, Starcraft 2 and plan to play Diablo 3. Honestly for me, poor performance in Starcraft 2 was enough to sway me to spend $100 for a much faster CPU. Add to this, horrendous power consumption of the X6 processor @ 4.0ghz...and well 2 more cores are mostly useless cores for those of us who aren't into content creation.

3) CPU prices aren't what they used to be and CPU performance progress slowed down considerably. So now if you spend $100 more for a 2500k, it will last you at least 2 years. That's only $50 extra per year. Not a lot of $ for something you use almost every single day. Also, you are getting a performance near $999 990X at times. 955BE? Well that CPU is only as good as a $300 Q6600 from 2007 as I mentioned earlier. So actually, the 2500k is the better bang for the buck.

Now, how many more games in the future will become more CPU limited? Also, you buy a $220 2500k, but its resale value is also going to be higher. I mean people spend $400 on a GPU that in 12 months will lose at least $100. $500 GTX480? Only $299 now. Is a 2500k going to lose $100 in 12 months? Not a chance!! With Intel not planning to release anything ground-breaking until Haswell, a $220 Sandy Bridge is easily justifiable since it'll kick around until 2013.

Of course I agree that if a user has a very strict budget and has to decide between a 955 + HD6870 vs. 2500k + HD6770, then I'll take the former system.

 

[NostaSeronx]

1) The argument of 955BE vs. 2500k is a questionable one. 955BE is at best equal to Q6600 in IPC. So a 4.5ghz 2500k is at least = 6.3ghz 955BE. Most 955s overclock to what 3.8ghz? Is $100 extra a lot to pay for 65% more performance? To me, easily. Also, 955BE overclocked is only about as fast as an overclocked Q6600. Some people aren't happy buying a CPU with performance of a 2007 CPU in 2011.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Phenom+II+X4+955

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-2500K+@+3.30GHz


i5 2500K @ 4.3GHz AVG : 8,728
AMD 970BE @ 4.2GHz AVG : 5,263
i5 2500K @ Stock AVG: 7,371
AMD 955BE @ Stock AVG: 3,965

i5 2500K @ Stock 186% faster than 955BE @ Stock
i5 2500K @ 4.3GHz 166% faster than 970BE @ 4.2GHz

 

[Vesku]

Don't think that's how percentages work NostaSeronx. Should be 86% and 66% faster, the term faster means you have to subtract the 1 from your (Y/X) results.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Phenom+II+X4+955

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-2500K+%40+3.30GHz


i5 2500K @ 4.3GHz AVG : 8,728
AMD 970BE @ 4.2GHz AVG : 5,263
i5 2500K @ Stock AVG: 7,371
AMD 955BE @ Stock AVG: 3,965

i5 2500K @ Stock 186% faster than 955BE @ Stock
i5 2500K @ 4.3GHz 166% faster than 970BE @ 4.2GHz

You do know CPU benchmark is completely skewed, right? Sandy Bridge has 40% higher IPC, and scales better beyond 3GHz due to the higher IPC. Both at 4GHz the Core i5-2500K would be around 45% faster, and at 4.5GHz and 4GHz the 2500K would be around 60% faster, again a testimony to the fact that CPU benchmark is total and utter crap.

 

[NostaSeronx]

Don't think that's how percentages work NostaSeronx. Should be 86% and 66% faster, the term faster means you have to subtract the 1 from your (Y/X) results.

X times 1.86(186%) or 1.66(166%) comes out with the result Y

My math is correct

You do know CPU benchmark is completely skewed, right? Sandy Bridge has 40% higher IPC, and scales better beyond 3GHz due to the higher IPC. Both at 4GHz the Core i5-2500K would be around 45% faster, and at 4.5GHz and 4GHz the 2500K would be around 60% faster, again a testimony to the fact that CPU benchmark is total and utter crap.

Sandy Bridge has 3 more functional units than Phenom II so it is 100% higher IPC(Phenom II having 3 functional units functioning at any given time and Sandy Bridge having 6 functional units functioning at any given time is a big boost)

Passmark is the most accurate benchmark to date.

 

[ocre]

Pretty much, yes. I'd say AMD has dominated the GPU market ever since the Radeon HD 4000 series because of their excellent price/performance and performance/watt. To say that NVIDIA is currently the best out of the two overall when it comes to GPUs is simply foolish. AMD has had the overall lead ever since mid 2008.

LOL!

you would!

Anyway! Its not that i believe nvidia is automatically better or anything. Its just your statement is just as true to foolish as your claims that these others are.

biased, anyone?

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

X times 1.86(186&#37 or 1.66(166%) comes out with the result Y

My math is correct



Sandy Bridge has 3 more functional units than Phenom II so it is 100% higher IPC(Phenom II having 3 functional units functioning at any given time and Sandy Bridge having 6 functional units functioning at any given time is a big boost)

Passmark is the most accurate benchmark to date.

You actually believe what you're saying?

PassMark is utter crap.

 

[NostaSeronx]

You actually believe what you're saying?

PassMark is utter crap.

Tom's hardware is utter crap.

 

[Vesku]

So the phenom ii is 100% faster than itself? X/X = 1