Fudzilla: New AMD Zen APU boasts up to 16 cores (plus Greenland GPU with HBM)

[dark zero]

Intel isnt going to change prices a single bit from today if you exclude inflation. If they did they will earn less. At tripple the prices Intel would be bankrupt within a year.

CPUs is not some kind of static demand goods.

Same reason why innovation wont slow.

Remember the Iphone? Well.. Just is the same situation here... They are the best and with a monopoly, people will be forced to buy it, Even at higher prices

 

[CHADBOGA]

ZEN will compete against socket 2011 segment, it doesnt have an iGPU and it will have more cores than i7-6770K.

ZEN APUs in 2017 will compete in the same segment as Socket 1151.

If ZEN will not be able to compete against Intel Socket 2011 then its a no go for the server from the start.

So what is AMD going to use to compete against Intel's 4 core processors?

 

[ShintaiDK]

Remember the Iphone? Well.. Just is the same situation here... They are the best and with a monopoly, people will be forced to buy it, Even at higher prices

No.

 

[AtenRa]

So what is AMD going to use to compete against Intel's 4 core processors?

I said ZEN APUs against Socket 1151

 

[frozentundra123456]

Remember the Iphone? Well.. Just is the same situation here... They are the best and with a monopoly, people will be forced to buy it, Even at higher prices

More of the same old fearmongering. Prices might rise slightly,but the situation is a totally different market, The Iphone was a new product and basically created a whole new market. if you wanted a cell phone you had to buy a new one. Computers are totally different. They are a mature market. If intel raised prices too high, people would simply not upgrade. One does not raise prices in a mature/declining market.

 

[monstercameron]

More of the same old fearmongering. Prices might rise slightly,but the situation is a totally different market, The Iphone was a new product and basically created a whole new market. if you wanted a cell phone you had to buy a new one. Computers are totally different. They are a mature market. If intel raised prices too high, people would simply not upgrade. One does not raise prices in a mature/declining market.

The iPhone came out in 07-08? How long was the smartphone market around before that? Really bad analogy. Who is to say that the price won't creep up while innovation and advancement won't falter without even the slightest bit of competition?

 

[Arachnotronic]

The iPhone came out in 07-08? How long was the smartphone market around before that? Really bad analogy. Who is to say that the price won't creep up while innovation and advancement won't falter without even the slightest bit of competition?

Frankly, because the PC market is not in a good place right now. Intel CEO is out saying that PC market is going to be flat-to-down for the foreseeable future. You can bet that a company that derives most of its revenues/unit scale from PCs is going to do everything in its power to keep customers interested in buying new PCs.

Raising prices on chips in such a market without delivering value commensurate with those price increases would be total fail.

 

[ShintaiDK]

The iPhone came out in 07-08? How long was the smartphone market around before that? Really bad analogy. Who is to say that the price won't creep up while innovation and advancement won't falter without even the slightest bit of competition?

Because we already got history to relate to. AMD havent been able to compete since 2006. And today they command less than 3% x86 revenue. While Intel uses a record amount on R&D as well and CPUs havent been cheaper in history and they sit currently at the optimal profit/volume ratio. Fun stuff, guess when CPU prices was the highest?

No innovation and no advancement would mean no upgrades either. Meaning no more Intel.

Nice try of the fear card again tho. But it wont make AMD any better.

 

[dark zero]

Not really... In fact there is not strong improvements like before where you change CPU in order to being updated.

To make it worse, the Pc market is on a debacle mostly because the Phone market, However, in the profesional apps, PC are mandatory... And they will need the chips, evwn if they triplicates their prices

 

[386DX]

It's funny how people think that AMD is some non-profit group out to help the customers. If Zen actually turns out to be great, and AMD puts out a CPU that matches or beats Intel in major metrics (ST performance, MT performance, power) there's zero chance AMD won't price it just like Intel's. People have such short term memory, remember Faildozer? That was a $350 CPU initially to compete with Intel's high end desktop chip. Guess what it was never designed to be sold as a $100-$150 chip but it has to because nobody would buy it otherwise. There's nobody to blame for AMD's current financial situation but themselves for selling products at unsustainable margins.

 

[Arachnotronic]

It's funny how people think that AMD is some non-profit group out to help the customers. If Zen actually turns out to be great, and AMD puts out a CPU that matches or beats Intel in major metrics (ST performance, MT performance, power) there's zero chance AMD won't price it just like Intel's. People have such short term memory, remember Faildozer? That was a $350 CPU initially to compete with Intel's high end desktop chip. Guess what it was never designed to be sold as a $100-$150 chip but it has to because nobody would buy it otherwise. There's nobody to blame for AMD's current financial situation but themselves for selling products at unsustainable margins.

QFT.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Actually shouldnt the title of this thread be changed to reflect some semblance of reality?
No igp, so no HBM, and nobody knows how many cores yet?

 

[Fjodor2001]

http://www.kitguru.net/components/c...-based-microprocessors-in-late-2016-document/

AMD set to release first ‘Zen’-based microprocessors in late 2016 – document

AMD’s first “Zen”-based central processing units code-named “Summit Ridge” will only become available in October, 2016, according to AMD 2016 desktop platform schedule* published by Benchlife. The confidential document was presented to AMD’s partners on the 27th of March, 2015, and may contain certain inaccuracies. For example, the document calls AMD’s forthcoming desktop socket as “FM3”, whereas AMD’s official name revealed in May is “AM4”.

AMD expects to send the first engineering samples (ES) of the “Summit Ridge” central processing units to its partners in April, 2016. Engineering samples are usually fully-functional A1 revision chips that may run at lower clock-rates than the final products.

The A2 production candidate (PC) “Summit Ridge” processors that run at designated clock-rates and support all features are expected to ship to AMD’s partners in July, 2016. By September, 2016, AMD will ship A2 revision production ready (PR) processors with all the markings on them. The first central processing units featuring “Zen” cores will be introduced in October, 2016.
[...]
Based on unofficial information, AMD’s “Summit Ridge” processor has up to eight “Zen” cores with 512KB level two cache per core, up to 16MB of unified level-three cache, a dual-channel DDR4 memory controller, integrated PCI Express 3.0 x16 bus to connect to graphics cards, built-in PCIe 3.0 x4 port with NVMe and SATA support to connect storage devices and other input/output technologies. The CPUs are expected to be made using 14nm FinFET process technology (14LPP) at GlobalFoundries.

 

[dark zero]

AMD is screwed up... they are TOO LATE and will come overpriced

 

[Fjodor2001]

AMD is screwed up... they are TOO LATE and will come overpriced

Wow, deep and impressive analysis.

 

[Kallogan]

late 2016 lol.

 

[BigDaveX]

ZEN will compete against socket 2011 segment, it doesnt have an iGPU and it will have more cores than i7-6770K.

What makes you think Zen is going to have good enough performance to take on the LGA2011 versions of Skylake? The core count doesn't mean anything by itself; Thuban was a hex-core chip, but it was targeted at the quad-core i7s of the time. It wouldn't have had a prayer of directly taking on the hex-core Gulftowns.

If ZEN will not be able to compete against Intel Socket 2011 then its a no go for the server from the start.

AMD could still carve themselves out a niche for low-cost, high core count server chips if they can squeeze eight decent-performing cores into a normal desktop-sized package. Bulldozer's major issue in that department is currently its high power usage and the fact that LGA1150 Xeons still outperform it even with the lower core count.

I doubt they'd have much luck taking on Intel in the higher-end segments, if the rumours about insane core counts for the Skylake Xeons turn out to be correct.

 

[AtenRa]

What makes you think Zen is going to have good enough performance to take on the LGA2011 versions of Skylake? The core count doesn't mean anything by itself; Thuban was a hex-core chip, but it was targeted at the quad-core i7s of the time. It wouldn't have had a prayer of directly taking on the hex-core Gulftowns.

AMD could still carve themselves out a niche for low-cost, high core count server chips if they can squeeze eight decent-performing cores into a normal desktop-sized package. Bulldozer's major issue in that department is currently its high power usage and the fact that LGA1150 Xeons still outperform it even with the lower core count.

I doubt they'd have much luck taking on Intel in the higher-end segments, if the rumours about insane core counts for the Skylake Xeons turn out to be correct.

Take Excavator, add 40% higher IPC. Eliminate the CMT penalty and add HyperTthreading, lower power consumption by 50-60% and add 8 cores 16 threads.

Now a 4 core 8 thread Skylake socket 1151 will not be able to compete against an 8 core 16 threads ZEN, only Skylake-E can at the same core/threads count.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Take Excavator, add 40% higher IPC. Eliminate the CMT penalty and add HyperTthreading, lower power consumption by 50-60% and add 8 cores 16 threads.

Now a 4 core 8 thread Skylake socket 1151 will not be able to compete against an 8 core 16 threads ZEN, only Skylake-E can at the same core/threads count.

And it will run at 5Ghz too, right? :whiste:

 

[Fjodor2001]

And it will run at 5Ghz too, right? :whiste:

Will Skylake?

 

[dark zero]

And it will run at 5Ghz too, right? :whiste:

They can... INTEL after having the SB, they never achieved the stable 5.0 Ghz

AMD is comming on time only on servers, and seems that they will win there.

Then the no APU segment will give a revival of every card, Even nVIDIA... If nVIDIA is smart enough, they should ibclude nviLINK on AMD mobos too in case Intel backstabs them

 

[R0H1T]

And it will run at 5Ghz too, right? :whiste:

Sure with water (or LN2) cooling but you already knew that right

 

[BigDaveX]

Take Excavator, add 40% higher IPC.

Just to put it into perspective, that's about the performance leap from Nehalem to Haswell. In one generation. You really think that's feasible?

With the Core 2, we knew that it was at least in the realm of possibility that it might outperform the Athlon 64 X2, since the Pentium M and then Core 1 were already putting up a far better fight than the Netburst CPUs were. I don't doubt that AMD could produce a decent processor by pulling the old K10.5 core from Llano out of mothballs and splicing in the execution unit improvements and instruction sets from the Bulldozer+ line, but something competitive with Skylake (possibly even Cannonlake) in terms of IPC? That seems a pretty massive ask.

 

[Dresdenboy]

Remember the Iphone? Well.. Just is the same situation here... They are the best and with a monopoly, people will be forced to buy it, Even at higher prices

It's more complex than that. There is a whole software and media ecosystem built around Apple products and a strong emphasis on design, ease of use, smooth GUI, and some specific product ownership psychology. There likely is a relation between narcisstic PD and owning such designed products.

For example the iPhone 4 had a slower processer (800 MHz Cortex-A8) than a Samsung Galaxy S (1 GHz Cortex-A8). But the emphasis on the GUI's responsiveness made it appear faster.

It was not always the overall best technology, while it was always enough to be the market leader for a while.

 

[R0H1T]

Just to put it into perspective, that's about the performance leap from Nehalem to Haswell. In one generation. You really think that's feasible?

With the Core 2, we knew that it was at least in the realm of possibility that it might outperform the Athlon 64 X2, since the Pentium M and then Core 1 were already putting up a far better fight than the Netburst CPUs were. I don't doubt that AMD could produce a decent processor by pulling the old K10.5 core from Llano out of mothballs and splicing in the execution unit improvements and instruction sets from the Bulldozer+ line, but something competitive with Skylake (possibly even Cannonlake) in terms of IPC? That seems a pretty massive ask.

Sure if it clocks decently, also the CMT penalty hit will be taken out & HT benefits be added. A single Zen core (plus HT) should be much better than one Excavator module & if everything goes according to plan that should bring them closer to Haswell IPC or even exceed it in fringe cases. Remember Intel can be beaten in terms of raw performance, POWER8 & the upcoming POWER9 outperform it in certain tasks & the same should be the case on desktops with Zen. It's not necessarily a case of "core for core" parity, on desktops, as AMD only needs to beat them in perf/$ to be relevant here again.