Fukushima upgraded to Cat 7 TEPCO: Radiation leak may have topped Chernobyl release

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Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
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The high levels of radiation released has to have come from somewhere ?

Seems like something had to breach containment for that to happen, right ?

Either the core or the spent fuel holding areas ?
 

rcpratt

Lifer
Jul 2, 2009
10,433
110
116
The high levels of radiation released has to have come from somewhere ?

Seems like something had to breach containment for that to happen, right ?

Either the core or the spent fuel holding areas ?
Suppression. Pool.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
Suppression. Pool.

is supposed to contain high levels of radiation ?

why is a "pool" up in the atmosphere ?

Your short answers aren't very helpful. Also, how do you know what the source is if the operator doesn't ?
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Did I hear correctly it's been upgraded to severity level 6? One less than max of 7 like chernobyl?
 

rcpratt

Lifer
Jul 2, 2009
10,433
110
116
Did I hear correctly it's been upgraded to severity level 6? One less than max of 7 like chernobyl?
Yes, but it's intended to be a log scale. It's not exactly a scientific severity rating.
 
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rcpratt

Lifer
Jul 2, 2009
10,433
110
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is supposed to contain high levels of radiation ?

why is a "pool" up in the atmosphere ?

Your short answers aren't very helpful. Also, how do you know what the source is if the operator doesn't ?
They know far more than what they're releasing to the public.

When irradiated seawater is vented to it, yes, it would have been known to be moderately radioactive.

I have no idea what you're talking about with the atmosphere.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
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They know far more than what they're releasing to the public.

When irradiated seawater is vented to it, yes, it would have been known to be moderately radioactive.

I have no idea what you're talking about with the atmosphere.

The measured radiation that spiked high according to reports. Where was it measured ?

Are you saying they took those measurements directly from the suppresion pool ?

If not, how did it get to where they measured it if it didn't get there via the atmosphere ?
 

rcpratt

Lifer
Jul 2, 2009
10,433
110
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The measured radiation that spiked high according to reports. Where was it measured ?

Are you saying they took those measurements directly from the suppresion pool ?

If not, how did it get to where they measured it if it didn't get there via the atmosphere ?
Do you remember yesterday afternoon when the third explosion was announced, at Unit 2?

The Japan Atomic Energy Agency (JAEA) reported an explosion in the suppression pool at Fukushima Daiichi Unit 2, at 7:14 p.m. EDT on March 14. Reactor water level was reported to be at 2.7 meters below the top of the fuel. The pressure in the suppression pool decreased from 3 atmospheres to 1 atmosphere. Radiation readings at the site increased to 96 millirem per hour.
Facts:
-Explosion at the suppression pool
-Pressure in the suppression pool decreased
-Elevated radiation readings both on-site and off-site

Assumptions:
-Moderately irradiated seawater had been vented to the suppression pool after being saturated in the pressure vessel
-An explosion combined with a drop in pressure is a pretty good indication that whatever was in the suppression pool escaped the pool by some means
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
is supposed to contain high levels of radiation ?

why is a "pool" up in the atmosphere ?

Your short answers aren't very helpful. Also, how do you know what the source is if the operator doesn't ?

The suppression pool is where the steam in the reactor is stored until it condenses back into water. So it helps to relieve pressure from the reactor chamber as well as reliquify the coolant. Since it is part of the coolant system, the water will come in direct contact with the fuel rods and pick up some minor radioactivity.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
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The suppression pool is where the steam in the reactor is stored until it condenses back into water. So it helps to relieve pressure from the reactor chamber as well as reliquify the coolant. Since it is part of the coolant system, the water will come in direct contact with the fuel rods and pick up some minor radioactivity.

And that could be the source for these measurements ?

"Officials had earlier reported radiation levels at the plant of between 100 and 400 millisieverts, or as much as 160 times higher than the average dose of radiation a typical person receives from natural sources in a year."
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/15/japan.nuclear.explainer/
 
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Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
Do you remember yesterday afternoon when the third explosion was announced, at Unit 2?


Facts:
-Explosion at the suppression pool
-Pressure in the suppression pool decreased
-Elevated radiation readings both on-site and off-site

Assumptions:
-Moderately irradiated seawater had been vented to the suppression pool after being saturated in the pressure vessel
-An explosion combined with a drop in pressure is a pretty good indication that whatever was in the suppression pool escaped the pool by some means

ok, so did I clarify for you what I meant by atmosphere ? You didn't respond, weren't there some pretty high readings taken that had to indicate a release into the atmosphere ?
 
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rcpratt

Lifer
Jul 2, 2009
10,433
110
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Considering that seawater isn't pure, anything besides water in it could be irradiated. More likely, there were fission fragments in the water that escaped the fuel rods.

ok, so did I clarify for you what I meant by atmosphere ? You didn't respond, weren't there some pretty high readings taken that had to indicate a release in to the atmosphere ?
I understand what you were asking, but asking "why is a pool up in the atmosphere" still doesn't make sense.

Yes, I believe it somehow made its way to the atmosphere after the suppression pool explosion. It no longer would have been in the containment, but I can't speculate further.
 
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wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
Considering that seawater isn't pure, anything besides water in it could be irradiated. More likely, there were fission fragments in the water that escaped the fuel rods.


"Isn't pure" is the understatement of the year. There's enough titanium alone in a cubic meter of seawater to build a bicycle frame. I don't know what's coming out that plant, but I wouldn't be eating sushi for awhile if I were them.
 

rcpratt

Lifer
Jul 2, 2009
10,433
110
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"Isn't pure" is the understatement of the year. There's enough titanium alone in a cubic meter of seawater to build a bicycle frame. I don't know what's coming out that plant, but I wouldn't be eating sushi for awhile if I were them.
I was not implying that seawater was being returned directly to the ocean after cooling the reactor, which seems to be the conclusion you're jumping to.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
Considering that seawater isn't pure, anything besides water in it could be irradiated. More likely, there were fission fragments in the water that escaped the fuel rods.


I understand what you were asking, but asking "why is a pool up in the atmosphere" still doesn't make sense.

Yes, I believe it somehow made its way to the atmosphere after the suppression pool explosion. It no longer would have been in the containment, but I can't speculate further.

Because in your first abbreviated response, your explanation for the high readings was a pool. Which didn't explain the readings at all.

So I asked how a pool could affect readings taken in the air, not in a pool. Now you've explained, it isn't the pool, it's the explosion of whatever used to be in the pool.

Thanks,
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
-snip-
This tsunami doesn't even seem to be that large...

I've heard several different numbers for the size/height of the tsunami. The initial reports said something like 6', clearly it was larger than that. Later reports said 23'. However, last night I saw coverage of a hospital that had been hit by the tsunami and it's 4th story floor was destroyed. Unless it was built in a depression that would indicate an even higher level tsunami.

Fern
 

Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
2,184
0
0
I've heard several different numbers for the size/height of the tsunami. The initial reports said something like 6', clearly it was larger than that. Later reports said 23'. However, last night I saw coverage of a hospital that had been hit by the tsunami and it's 4th story floor was destroyed. Unless it was built in a depression that would indicate an even higher level tsunami.

Fern

It depends on where you were. The geometry of the shoreline and sea floor can make the wave grow immensely.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,560
2
0
"Isn't pure" is the understatement of the year. There's enough titanium alone in a cubic meter of seawater to build a bicycle frame. I don't know what's coming out that plant, but I wouldn't be eating sushi for awhile if I were them.

Is that so?
 
Dec 26, 2007
11,783
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Nope. Titanium only exists at .001 parts per million in sea water.

Saying that you could build a bike frame out of the titanium in 1 cubic meter of seawater is the same BS being spewed about this.

Stop being an uneducated jackass that through their intellectual void are causing us to halt any progress being made to building new nuclear facilities.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Those open air fuel storage pool fires are a worse risk then the reactors which only have a fraction of the amount of fuel in them. But then some smart guy in the nuke industry thought putting 14 years of mostly hot fuel above the reactor themselves in the sky with a sheet metal type roof was a great idea. Hmm.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
are causing us to halt any progress being made to building new nuclear facilities.

Actually, the plants blowing up repeatedly even though everyone always says they are 100% safe and risking huge parts of population kinda does that, you are a blockhead. We should use your skull as a neutron absorber for the plant in Japan.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Is that so?
He's correct, you could build a bike frame from the titanium in a square meter of sea water. You would not however be able to SEE the bike frame. So you'd best remember exactly where you put it when you go to pick up its itty bitty nano tires.

I suspect willful exaggeration for effect, no one is quite THAT stupid.
 

ConstipatedVigilante

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2006
7,671
1
0
Saying that you could build a bike frame out of the titanium in 1 cubic meter of seawater is the same BS being spewed about this.

Stop being an uneducated jackass that through their intellectual void are causing us to halt any progress being made to building new nuclear facilities.
I didn't see what your original post was referring to. I was just stating that no, there is not enough titanium in a cubic meter of seawater to build a life-scale bike frame. I don't think posting relevant figures constitutes being an "uneducated jackass," jackass.

theredunderurbed said:
Actually, the plants blowing up repeatedly even though everyone always says they are 100% safe and risking huge parts of population kinda does that, you are a blockhead. We should use your skull as a neutron absorber for the plant in Japan.
Blowing up repeatedly? This is the 2nd plant in history that has had a major problem (TMI doesn't count - it was blown way out of proportion). If this happened to a coal plant or oil refinery, the immediate environmental effects would be a million times worse.
 
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