Fukushima upgraded to Cat 7 TEPCO: Radiation leak may have topped Chernobyl release

[Tom]

Why did the operators decide to blow up the outer containment buildings ?

I'm not seeing the reasoning behind that decision.

 

[rcpratt]

Why did the operators decide to blow up the outer containment buildings ?

I'm not seeing the reasoning behind that decision.

Because blowing up a non-safety-related building is better than blowing up the pressure vessel.

 

[Tom]

Because blowing up a non-safety-related building is better than blowing up the pressure vessel.

Why blow up either ? btw, why are the storage tanks indoors ? Just for the helluva it ?

 

[rcpratt]

Why blow up either ? btw, why are the storage tanks indoors ? Just for the helluva it ?

Hydrogen had to go somewhere. I'm frankly not familiar enough with the Daiichi plant to know if they had a path to vent directly to atmosphere. I have to imagine they would have if they could have though, because I'm sure they were more than aware that venting the hydrogen would cause an explosion.

The spent fuel pools are where they are because they need to be near the reactor head. The positioning on the 5th floor of the RB was certainly a decision of convenience. The ESBWR, for example, has relocated the spent fuel pool to below grade. There's a small auxiliary pool near the reactor head, and the fuel assemblies can be lowered through a channel of water to the actual pool.

They're inside because putting them outside and exposing them to the elements even further would make no sense.

 

[JD50]

lmfao there is one comment removed from Steeplerot from that youtube video.

Haha, if you look at his youtube profile one of his favorites is the video that TheRedWetsHisBed posted in his other thread, "Don'T Tread on our Capitalist Masters"

But it's not like we really needed any more proof that he's the RBM Steeplerot.

 

[K1052]

This is good for site cleanup, not going to do anything for the reactors in meltdown which are the problem.

There is a lot of conjecture about the actual state of things inside the buildings. Hopefully the robots will give some more information and help them find where coolant is leaking out so they can isolate some of the damage.

The amount of fuel melt the running reactors experienced is, as of yet, unknown.

 

[rcpratt]

There is a lot of conjecture about the actual state of things inside the buildings. Hopefully the robots will give some more information and help them find where coolant is leaking out so they can isolate some of the damage.

The amount of fuel melt the running reactors experienced is, as of yet, unknown.

Fuel damage is estimated as 70 percent in Unit 1, 30 percent in Unit 2, and 25 percent in Unit 3. We'll certainly find out more details soon enough, hopefully...although I don't really think those three numbers are all that important at this point.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

You will be proven wrong once again. Those are fuel rods, there are many pictures all over the net. That stuff was not rebar, nor did it even look like rebar. Rebar is not hollow.

Yes, because as we all know if it's online it must be true.

Oh, and if you actually read what he said then you would have seen him say "rebar and other debris." The hollow stuff are various pipes used for cooling and other things. If there were actual fuel rods there, then it would be known by the world.

 

[rcpratt]

It's now apparently national news when reactor unexpectedly shuts down...and it shut down exactly as it should.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/04/22/georgia.nuclear.plant/index.html?hpt=T2

 

[Steeplerot]

The censorship has begun in full, it is "illegal" to speak of Fukishima and question TEPCO official reports.


"The Japanese government has moved to crack down on independent reportage and criticism of the government's policies in the wake of the disaster by deciding what citizens may or may not talk about in public. A new project team has been created by the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communication, the National Police Agency, and METI to combat "rumors" deemed harmful to Japanese security in the wake of the Fukushima disaster.

The government charges that the damage caused by earthquakes and by the nuclear accident are being magnified by irresponsible rumors, and the government must take action for the sake of the public good. The project team has begun to send "letters of request" to such organizations as telephone companies, internet providers, cable television stations, and others, demanding that they "take adequate measures based on the guidelines in response to illegal information. "The measures include erasing any information from internet sites that the authorities deem harmful to public order and morality."

http://www.soumu.go.jp/menu_news/s-news/01kiban08_01000023.html


This thread is illegal now, by the way, don't question the Nuke industry. They obviously think they own more then just rcpratts ass.

 

[MotF Bane]

It's now apparently national news when reactor unexpectedly shuts down...and it shut down exactly as it should.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/04/22/georgia.nuclear.plant/index.html?hpt=T2

Our safety measures worked correctly.

HOW DARE YOU?! FFFEEEAAARRRR!!!!!

:/

 

[Steeplerot]

The amount of fuel melt the running reactors experienced is, as of yet, unknown.

Of course it is not, they stopped telling anyone info awhile back. Last we heard at least one reactor has molten fuel that exited the containment and pooling on the concrete in the basement. It's only 5 meters to the water table.


The battle to save the Fukushima nuclear power plant now appears lost as the radioactive core from Reactor No. 2 has melted through the containment vessel and dropped into the concrete basement of the reactor structure.

That was from March 29th.

Now they are calling for global censorship after blacking out media on updates for awhile.

This is standard for the Nuke industry even TEPCO itself has a history of Nuke plant accident ass-covering.


Do the math. These folks have billions of taxpayer money on the line with their Industry PR.

 

[rcpratt]

Of course it is not, they stopped telling anyone info awhile back. Last we heard at least one reactor has molten fuel that exited the containment and pooling on the concrete in the basement. It's only 5 meters to the water table.

I'm pretty sure nobody has actually heard that except you. That's the same article you've been linking over and over again (from four weeks ago), and there is no evidence to support that.

 

[werepossum]

I'm pretty sure nobody has actually heard that except you. That's the same article you've been linking over and over again (from four weeks ago), and there is no evidence to support that.

I was under the impression that the reactors (at least four) were pretty much lost by Day One and that the battle to minimize the radioactive matter disbursed and hopefully save the site. It looks to me like the four reactors and their individual sites have been lost, requiring entombment, with the only question being whether ANY of the site and other reactors can be saved.

 

[Steeplerot]

and there is no evidence to support that.

All the evidence is there in front of your face, of course you dont want to see it. That is from TEPCO themselves. Ignorant shills...

 

[rcpratt]

I was under the impression that the reactors (at least four) were pretty much lost by Day One and that the battle to minimize the radioactive matter disbursed and hopefully save the site. It looks to me like the four reactors and their individual sites have been lost, requiring entombment, with the only question being whether ANY of the site and other reactors can be saved.

I was referring to the "melting through the pressure vessel" bit, should have clarified, sorry.

As for the reactors being lost, I guess it depends on what you mean by that. They'll certainly never be used again.

 

[Steeplerot]

I was referring to the "melting through the pressure vessel" bit, should have clarified, sorry.

As for the reactors being lost, I guess it depends on what you mean by that. They'll certainly never be used again.

It was common knowledge. What is your take on the censorship bit? Do you support this when TEPCO has been known to change the data or just not release it to the public if it is not "rosey"?

Do these measures show a responsible leadership in the Nuclear Industry when so much rides on safety and accountability?

By not letting people know whats going on it only makes rational minded people wonder what is being hidden. Once again corporations think they know better then the people they are supposed to be serving.

 

[Mark R]

Hydrogen had to go somewhere. I'm frankly not familiar enough with the Daiichi plant to know if they had a path to vent directly to atmosphere. I have to imagine they would have if they could have though, because I'm sure they were more than aware that venting the hydrogen would cause an explosion.

Venting the containment building would discharge the contents through those big chimney stacks - you can see huge pipes running to them from the reactor building.

It seems likely that the vent pipes were damaged in the earthquake and ruptured, leaking hydrogen during the vent operation into the main plant building, where a spark or static electricity could have triggered the explosion.

It's worth noting that Japanese safety standards were different than the US. When the same design of plants were built in the US, the NRC flagged up the emergency vent pipes as a problem. The original design specified that the vent ducting be made of metal plates (like HVAC ducting), and this is how they were constructed at Fukushima. The NRC said, 'too much risk of earthquake or explosion damage rupturing the pipes and permitting hydrogen leakage', and required the venting ducts to be built from heavy-duty rigid steel pipes.

(The NRC also flagged up the risk of losing all generators simultaneously, and ordered that the backup generators be placed in different buildings on different parts of the site - although this probably wouldn't have made a difference given the severity of the flooding).

 

[Steeplerot]

More evidence of ongoing meltdowns from TEPCO Apr 19th report.

After 5 Halflives, I-131 Higher than Cs-134/137 Suggests Ongoing Criticalities

During full-power operation, numerous "fission products" are in approximate steady-state equilibrium, meaning roughly equal becquerel of I-131 and Cs-134, with a slow buildup of Cs-137. But they all cease to be created when the reactors are scrammed. Japanese regulators NISA and MEXT seem oblivious of the mysterious fact that I-131 Bq "reactor density" is still often reported double the Cs-134/137 Bq. The TEPCO data suggest that fission is ongoing despite the reactor shutdowns.

 

[rcpratt]

More evidence of ongoing meltdowns from TEPCO Apr 19th report.

After 5 Halflives, I-131 Higher than Cs-134/137 Suggests Ongoing Criticalities

During full-power operation, numerous "fission products" are in approximate steady-state equilibrium, meaning roughly equal becquerel of I-131 and Cs-134, with a slow buildup of Cs-137. But they all cease to be created when the reactors are scrammed. Japanese regulators NISA and MEXT seem oblivious of the mysterious fact that I-131 Bq "reactor density" is still often reported double the Cs-134/137 Bq. The TEPCO data suggest that fission is ongoing despite the reactor shutdowns.

Do you have a link to the data referenced there? I'm interested in this.

 

[Steeplerot]

Do you have a link to the data referenced there? I'm interested in this.

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11041907-e.html

From what I understand they have stopped reporting on Cs-134/137 since the 19th as people are asking questions now about cores coming through the bottoms of containments since they are in effect in a "runaway" state.

My guess there is no point now, as no one can get near enough anyhow to fix the problem and they are just letting it "cook off" into the atmosphere and environment/foodchain hoping cores will cool before they melt through the basements into the watertable.

 

[rcpratt]

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11041907-e.html

First of all, your quote says "reactor density," while the data there is radiation captured in the air (dust).

I have a hard time giving that data too much credibility when the Cs-137 activity is so high. Cs-137 could never be any higher than about 1/10th the activity of either Cs-134 or I-131.

 

[Steeplerot]

First of all, your quote says "reactor density," while the data there is radiation captured in the air (dust).

I have a hard time giving that data too much credibility when the Cs-137 activity is so high. Cs-137 could never be any higher than about 1/10th the activity of either Cs-134 or I-131.

TEPCO are conspiracy traffickers now with their own data? You also said people were ignorant for saying a reaction could happen without humans controlling it. It is obvious we have at least one meltdown, even tepco reports #1 fuel melting through containment into the basement a month ago. It all adds up really.

In light of new efforts to censor things even moreso.

 

[rcpratt]

TEPCO are conspiracy traffickers now with their own data? You also said people were ignorant for saying a reaction could happen without humans controlling it. It is obvious we have at least one meltdown, even tepco reports #1 fuel melting through containment into the basement a month ago. It all adds up really.

In light of new efforts to censor things even moreso.

Your point is that they're...lying about the Cs-137 data, which is nearly irrelevant, and not changing possibly incriminating I-131 data?

I don't know what definition you're trying to use for meltdown, but yes, it's obvious that there are at least 3 partial meltdowns. I still haven't seen this magical report FROM TEPCO saying that fuel had melted through a pressure vessel.

Anyways, here's a graph of what he's talking about:

This shows reactor operation for 1 year and then reactor scram on day 365 (black line). I-131 activity in the reactor should be below Cs-134 activity at this point if fission is stopped. However, even if there was a total of say, 5% reactor power being produced, I-131 should be below Cs-134 (I'll draw up a graph for that). The data just doesn't support any real analysis.

edit: This shows the reactors being shut down to 10% (high to be conservative) instead of fully shut down after 1 year. The only noticeable change is in I-131. Note how it's still far below (about 5 times less than) Cs-134 activity.

 

[MotF Bane]

-snip-

You do understand you're wasting your time with him, right?