Full House vote on impeachment inquiry rules to be held Thursday

[pcgeek11]

holding the funds is ok?

Yes. The US with holds funds for various reasons all the time.

 

[pcgeek11]

Did it occur to you the entirely different standards of evidence needed to convict the bloated orange white guy dictated waiting to vote until he virtually impeached himself??

Then why did they say they already had all they needed?
Are you saying that they were lying?

 

[pcgeek11]

Are you claiming that Trump did not request that Ukraine investigate his political opponents or that it was fine for him to do so?

" I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows alot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike ... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it There are a lot. of things that went on, the whole situation .. I think you1 re _surrounding yourse·lf with some of the same people. I .would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to ·get to the bottom of it. As you said yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance-, _but they. say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, ·it's very important that you. do it if that's possible. "

" Good because I· heard you had a prosecutor who· was very·good and he was shut down and that's really unfair._·A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the_mayor bf New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could _speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United $tates, the woman., was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine.were bad news so I just want to let you know that The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son. that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you ·can look into it ... It sounds horrible to me. "


Looks like he asked them to investigate Crowdstrike and then later on investigate Joe Bidens sons dealings in the Ukraine. Then look into if Joe stopped the prosecution of the company his son was working for. Which Joe freely admitted to on tape.

Last I heard Bidens son is not Trumps political opponent.

 

[pcgeek11]

Your feels are irrelevant wrt the law.

And your comment is irrelevant to what I said.

Learn to follow a conversation.

I was asked what I thought:

fskimospy said: So to be clear do you think asking foreign governments to investigate your domestic political enemies is not an impeachable offense?

and that was my answer.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

" I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows alot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike ... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it There are a lot. of things that went on, the whole situation .. I think you1 re _surrounding yourse·lf with some of the same people. I .would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to ·get to the bottom of it. As you said yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance-, _but they. say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, ·it's very important that you. do it if that's possible. "

" Good because I· heard you had a prosecutor who· was very·good and he was shut down and that's really unfair._·A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the_mayor bf New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could _speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United $tates, the woman., was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine.were bad news so I just want to let you know that The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son. that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you ·can look into it ... It sounds horrible to me. "


Looks like he asked them to investigate Crowdstrike and then later on investigate Joe Bidens sons dealings in the Ukraine. Then look into if Joe stopped the prosecution of the company his son was working for. Which Joe freely admitted to on tape.

Last I heard Bidens son is not Trumps political opponent.

Then look into Joe...
That is a violation of law which has been posted before. You may say it's alright for Trump to commit a crime with the intent of influencing an election but no

 

[TheVrolok]

" I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows alot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike ... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it There are a lot. of things that went on, the whole situation .. I think you1 re _surrounding yourse·lf with some of the same people. I .would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to ·get to the bottom of it. As you said yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance-, _but they. say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, ·it's very important that you. do it if that's possible. "

" Good because I· heard you had a prosecutor who· was very·good and he was shut down and that's really unfair._·A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the_mayor bf New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could _speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United $tates, the woman., was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine.were bad news so I just want to let you know that The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son. that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you ·can look into it ... It sounds horrible to me. "


Looks like he asked them to investigate Crowdstrike and then later on investigate Joe Bidens sons dealings in the Ukraine. Then look into if Joe stopped the prosecution of the company his son was working for. Which Joe freely admitted to on tape.

Last I heard Bidens son is not Trumps political opponent.

It actually wasn't an answer to eski, it was your mistaking the facts.

You do realize that Joe (with the alignment of European and US foreign policy) sought the ousting of the prosecution because he WOULDN'T investigate Burisma, among other things? (I know that you don't)

Asking for dirt on Biden's son is asking for dirt on Biden. Do you have other examples of where Trump is so anti corruption that he's personally withholding benefits to a foreign nation? You know, when the focus is NOT his primary political rival? (I know that you don't)

You do know that there's absolutely 0 evidence with regard to Crowdstrike/a DNC server in Ukraine? (I know that you don't). This is entirely Trump asking Ukraine to manufacturer conspiracy theory nonsense.

Your allowed your own opinion on whether or not you care about the law, or Trump's corruption (I know that you don't), but you are not entitled to your own mistaken facts.

 

[pcgeek11]

Then look into Joe...
That is a violation of law which has been posted before. You may say it's alright for Trump to commit a crime with the intent of influencing an election but no

I didn't really see the need for looking into Joe Biden and the prosecutor fiasco. He has already freely admitted he bribed them to fire the prosecutor on video.

"I looked at them and said, ‘I’m leaving in six hours," Biden recounted. "If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money.’ Well, son of a b----. He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time."

 

[pcgeek11]

It actually wasn't an answer to eski, it was your mistaking the facts.

You do realize that Joe (with the alignment of European and US foreign policy) sought the ousting of the prosecution because he WOULDN'T investigate Burisma, among other things? (I know that you don't)

Asking for dirt on Biden's son is asking for dirt on Biden. Do you have other examples of where Trump is so anti corruption that he's personally withholding benefits to a foreign nation? You know, when the focus is NOT his primary political rival? (I know that you don't)

You do know that there's absolutely 0 evidence with regard to Crowdstrike/a DNC server in Ukraine? (I know that you don't). This is entirely Trump asking Ukraine to manufacturer conspiracy theory nonsense.

Your allowed your own opinion on whether or not you care about the law, or Trump's corruption (I know that you don't), but you are not entitled to your own mistaken facts.

You don't know what I do and don't know. Just to get that out front.

So bribery is OK as long as it meets your needs.

Joe Bidens son is not equal to Joe Biden. They are two separate people.

I never claimed that Crowdstrike had anything to do with the Ukraine. I was merely quoting the transcript. I took it as Trump has no idea what Crowdstrike is. I didn't see where he asked anyone to manufacture anything. He did ask them to investigate or look into it. If Manufacture Dirt is in there please quote it for me.

You are entitled to your opinion however, no matter how far off it may be.

 

[TheVrolok]

You don't know what I do and don't know. Just to get that out front.

So bribery is OK as long as it meets your needs.

Joe Bidens son is not equal to Joe Biden. They are two separate people.

I never claimed that Crowdstrike had anything to do with the Ukraine. I was merely quoting the transcript. I took it as Trump has no idea what Crowdstrike is. I didn't see where he asked anyone to manufacture anything. Investigate or look into... If Manufacture Dirt is in there please quote it for me.

You are entitled to your opinion however, no matter how far off it may be.

You either don't know the substance of what your trying to present, or you're wilfully incorrect. You choose and get that out front.

If this were not about Joe Biden, why is Trump constantly talking about it? Why does Trump recommend investigating Joe as well? If this were solely about Hunter and has nothing to do with Joe, why are we even hearing about it? The government is investigating people all the time, and yet we don't hear the president talking about it constantly, do we?

"Bribery" (you should probably avoid conflating things) is complicated. I'm guessing you're referring to "Well Biden can withhold funds until the Ukrainian prosecuter is removed but Trump can't withhold funds until fraud is investigated?"

The simple answer is yes. Biden was acting out US and European foreign policy without personal gain. Trump is not acting in line with traditional US foreign policy (of course he is the president and could change it at any point) but more importantly he's doing it for personal political gain. Those are not remotely the same, and one is illegal.

I will concede that Trump does not literally ask for manufactured dirt regarding Crowdstrike, but I think it's fair to interpret that subtext. If you're defense is "well, the most powerful man in the world with the most vast ability to understand the details of anything is just ignorant" then I guess... oookkaayy. If you want, feel free to strike the Crowdstrike point.

Now, please, show me where else there is any opinion and not fact. (I know that you won't)

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I didn't really see the need for looking into Joe Biden and the prosecutor fiasco. He has already freely admitted he bribed them to fire the prosecutor on video.

"I looked at them and said, ‘I’m leaving in six hours," Biden recounted. "If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money.’ Well, son of a b----. He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time."

The prosecutor was fired because that's what was supposed to happen as he was corrupt. The laws regarding aid to Ukraine REQUIRED that corruption was addressed and Biden was officially carrying out US policy and law as was proper. This wasn't to protect his son, this is what he was tasked to do. The world knew that the person in question was utterly corrupt and he needed to be gone before we committed funds, again a legal requirement for aid, and was done above board.

If Biden is guilty then so is every administration who used funds as a motivator, i.e. all of them.

A bribe? If you like, but quid pro quos are part of diplomacy for all of human history. That is was an official act above board and something you missed.

 

[brycejones]

I've never said anything like that.

That was a worthless post.

So still a secret then.

 

[brycejones]

You don't know what I do and don't know. Just to get that out front.

So bribery is OK as long as it meets your needs.

Joe Bidens son is not equal to Joe Biden. They are two separate people.

I never claimed that Crowdstrike had anything to do with the Ukraine. I was merely quoting the transcript. I took it as Trump has no idea what Crowdstrike is. I didn't see where he asked anyone to manufacture anything. He did ask them to investigate or look into it. If Manufacture Dirt is in there please quote it for me.

You are entitled to your opinion however, no matter how far off it may be.

That’s a lot of words to dodge giving a real answer.

 

[interchange]

It shouldn't be.

You asked me who the "they" was in my response above. So I answered you with an honest reply.

Many of the Democrats have been saying for 2 years that they have all they need to impeach Trump. Yet they sit on their hands until now.

What I am wondering is why frame this as Democrat inaction or Democrat duty to act presently? I don't understand, if impeachment should be non-partisan, why any action or urgency to act applies any differently to any member of Congress.

To me it sounds like your words are to criticize Democrats. Well, if you think they're so bad for not pursuing impeachment when the evidence has been there for 2 years, what do you think of Republicans who have actively tried to make the duty a hyperpartisan issue to protect the President from impeachment?

Personally, I don't care at this point about the past failures of Congress, but I do care about diffusing partisanship. And here you are engaging with me stating you agree with that goal while starting the conversation with a dig against Democrats.

 

[VRAMdemon]

Loser Donald has announced that he wants to give a "fireside chat" on national television so he can read the transcript of his Ukraine call and show everyone that it was a Perfect Call and that it was Very Legal, maybe even the most legal call ever made.

In related news, Loser Donald has announced that he intends to learn how to read.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

It's hard to know which thread things should be posted, so it's here.

Trump would read the transcript "fireside"

It's like a tumor wrapped in the plague and dipped in anthrax. I might listen for the lols.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Loser Donald has announced that he wants to give a "fireside chat" on national television so he can read the transcript of his Ukraine call and show everyone that it was a Perfect Call and that it was Very Legal, maybe even the most legal call ever made.

In related news, Loser Donald has announced that he intends to learn how to read.

GMTA

 

[VRAMdemon]

It seems to me that Bolton doesn't want to appear to be willing to do the Democrats' bidding, but would be more than happy to stick it to Donald if compelled to do so. Bolton's lawyer is signalling that Bolton is eager for an invitation to testify in the form of a subpeona and, if subpeonaed, Bolton will not let assertions of executive privilege stop him from testifying. I don't think Bolton is taking this stance because he wants to say things that will please Trump.

Hopefully, the next 4-6 weeks will be where the tide turns in public opinion. Getting credible witnesses questioned by professional counsel rather than grandstanding politicians in public hearings is going to make or break the case. I'm hoping that outside the Fox bubble, hearing these witnesses speak on simple issues and repeated on the nightly news and quoted on news sites will move public opinion from current say 50% in favor of conviction to closer to 70%. This should cause Republican Senators to see their numbers start to drop, they will make the calculation that to save themselves they have to ditch the dead weight in the Oval Office.

If anything....The greatest benefit of the impeachment proceedings will be to create a contemporaneous record of the worst administration in U.S. history.

 

[HomerJS]

You don't know what I do and don't know. Just to get that out front.

So bribery is OK as long as it meets your needs.

Joe Bidens son is not equal to Joe Biden. They are two separate people.

I never claimed that Crowdstrike had anything to do with the Ukraine. I was merely quoting the transcript. I took it as Trump has no idea what Crowdstrike is. I didn't see where he asked anyone to manufacture anything. He did ask them to investigate or look into it. If Manufacture Dirt is in there please quote it for me.

You are entitled to your opinion however, no matter how far off it may be.

There is a difference in holding back money to effect US policy vs holding back money for personal gain. Joe Biden wanting the old Ukraine prosecutor out was NOT for personal gain but for US policy and the wishes of many other countries.

United States: "We will provide aid if you stop torturing your people." Would you call that a classic case of extortion or engaging in foreign policy?

You are being a bit disingenuous by claiming investigating Biden's son isn't tantamount to Joe. However let's take your side for a moment, why the following...

1. Why did Trump insist the Ukraine's issue a PUBLIC statement announcing the investigations.
2. If Trump really was concerned about corruption why back channel it? Legal way would have been to go through the State Department.

You are telling us you believe Trump is for the VERY FIRST TIME in his political career interested in stopping corruption and that just happened to be Joe Biden's son. This is the same anti-corruption Trump that was found guilty of stealing money earmarked for kids with cancer. That same anti-corruption Trump.

 

[HomerJS]

Then why did they say they already had all they needed?
Are you saying that they were lying?

They did have all they need from the Mueller Report. However they didn't have enough to convince a plurality of the electorate. They now have that. This Ukraine stuff is easy for people to understand. Extortion.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

It seems to me that Bolton doesn't want to appear to be willing to do the Democrats' bidding, but would be more than happy to stick it to Donald if compelled to do so. Bolton's lawyer is signalling that Bolton is eager for an invitation to testify in the form of a subpeona and, if subpeonaed, Bolton will not let assertions of executive privilege stop him from testifying. I don't think Bolton is taking this stance because he wants to say things that will please Trump.

Hopefully, the next 4-6 weeks will be where the tide turns in public opinion. Getting credible witnesses questioned by professional counsel rather than grandstanding politicians in public hearings is going to make or break the case. I'm hoping that outside the Fox bubble, hearing these witnesses speak on simple issues and repeated on the nightly news and quoted on news sites will move public opinion from current say 50% in favor of conviction to closer to 70%. This should cause Republican Senators to see their numbers start to drop, they will make the calculation that to save themselves they have to ditch the dead weight in the Oval Office.

If anything....The greatest benefit of the impeachment proceedings will be to create a contemporaneous record of the worst administration in U.S. history.

If I were a career employee I'd insist on a subpoena to cover my ass.

 

[TheVrolok]

You are telling us you believe Trump is for the VERY FIRST TIME in his political career interested in stopping corruption and that just happened to be Joe Biden's son. This is the same anti-corruption Trump that was found guilty of stealing money earmarked for kids with cancer. That same anti-corruption Trump.

To be fair to our Dear Leader, this isn't the first time. He was/is also incredibly interested in stopping corruption as it relates to this random woman Hillary Clinton.

Wait.. I'm just learning that apparently she was also his primary political rival. I seem to be noticing a pattern and I. Am. Shocked. Someone get me my pearls!

 

[fskimospy]

" I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows alot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike ... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it There are a lot. of things that went on, the whole situation .. I think you1 re _surrounding yourse·lf with some of the same people. I .would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to ·get to the bottom of it. As you said yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance-, _but they. say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, ·it's very important that you. do it if that's possible. "

" Good because I· heard you had a prosecutor who· was very·good and he was shut down and that's really unfair._·A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the_mayor bf New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could _speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United $tates, the woman., was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine.were bad news so I just want to let you know that The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son. that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you ·can look into it ... It sounds horrible to me. "


Looks like he asked them to investigate Crowdstrike and then later on investigate Joe Bidens sons dealings in the Ukraine. Then look into if Joe stopped the prosecution of the company his son was working for. Which Joe freely admitted to on tape.

Last I heard Bidens son is not Trumps political opponent.

So your argument is that Trump was only asking for investigations into the families of his political opponents so it’s fine?

 

[HomerJS]

So your argument is that Trump was only asking for investigations into the families of his political opponents so it’s fine?

So what happens when Trump holds up funding to states unless that Governor digs up dirt on a political opponent or a Democrat running for office in that state??

 

[dank69]

You don't know what I do and don't know. Just to get that out front.

So bribery is OK as long as it meets your needs.

Joe Bidens son is not equal to Joe Biden. They are two separate people.

I never claimed that Crowdstrike had anything to do with the Ukraine. I was merely quoting the transcript. I took it as Trump has no idea what Crowdstrike is. I didn't see where he asked anyone to manufacture anything. He did ask them to investigate or look into it. If Manufacture Dirt is in there please quote it for me.

You are entitled to your opinion however, no matter how far off it may be.

In order to maintain your opinion you need to ignore quite a few contrary facts:

There was no investigation into Burisma at the time Joe got that prosecutor fired.
Getting that prosecutor fired was in the interests of the United States and our allies because he was obstructing actual corruption cases.
Neither Joe Biden nor Hunter Biden benefitted in any way from the prosecutor being fired.
These are all reasons that Joe was perfectly comfortable bragging to the international media that he was the one who was ultimately responsible for getting it done.
Bribery is indeed positive in some situations and negative in others. Would you say bribing a foreign country to remove a corrupt official is a good thing? Would you say bribing a country to lie is a bad thing? I would answer yes to both these questions. If you would answer no to either, please explain why.
It is dishonest or ignorant to act like people who think bribery is okay in certain situations are hypocrites.
Implying that firing that prosecutor benefitted Joe or Hunter in any way is either dishonest or ignorant.
According to sworn testimony, Trump said he did not care if anyone actually investigated Joe, Hunter, or Burisma, he just wanted them to make an official statement to CNN that they were starting an investigation into them.
If Trump didn't care about whether or not an actual investigation was started and only cared about a public announcement, it would be logical to conclude that Trump did not care about finding corruption, he only cared about creating negative publicity for his opponent. Not just his son as you are trying to imply, but for Joe as well, as Trump admitted he talked about Joe's role in getting this prosecutor fired.

 

[fskimospy]

So what happens when Trump holds up funding to states unless that Governor digs up dirt on a political opponent or a Democrat running for office in that state??

Apparently so long as Trump is only doing that to get dirt on their families it’s no issue to pcgeek. I think we already know how this conversation with him will end - with basically everyone saying ‘oh for fuck’s sake’. He will continue to try and make pointless excuses (he was only demanding investigations of his opponent’s son!) until he is cornered at which point he will stubbornly refuse to admit he was wrong or change his mind and just say he’s entitled to his opinion.

Sometimes I wonder if the baby avatar is some sort of meta commentary by him on the character he plays here.