JManInPhoenix
Golden Member
- Sep 25, 2013
- 1,508
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Friction, angles, weights and shit. Some ropes, pullies and a couple of strong mofos should be able to handle it.
I am trying to figure out how much force needed to push something up a ramp
All I see is a bunch of people who dont know how to answer the question and instead of admitting that, they just want to throw ill conceived jabs at the OP
Impossible to determine with information provided. Fun not found. I demand a refund.
Coefficient of friction of object vs ramp. Or rolling resistance of tires if said object is on wheels.
http://faculty.wwu.edu/vawter/PhysicsNet/Topics/Dynamics/InclinePlanePhys.html
Edit: The length of the ramp doesnt matter, and I hope it should be obvious that a steeper ramp will require more force.
what the fuck is this? A 10th Grade physics lesson?
the smaller ramp would be used to move the populated ramp onto a specialized pallet and then lifted to the height of the location it needs to be in. I am suggesting getting rid of the pallet and just buy a longer ramp straight to the rack location. And either way, people, not machines would be moving the rack. So I want to know what, difference in force it would take to use the longer, taller ramp instead of the shorter ramp. The data floor it would be used in would be a mobile data center, HP and Dell make them and they are data floors in a GIANT connex for lack of better words. Its not homework.
(not drawn to scale)
x1 = 12
y1 = 156
x2 = 8
y2 = 122
W = 3500
theta1 = 4.399 degrees
theta2 = 3.752 degrees
To push the object up the ramp you need to overcome the weight parallel to the ramp surface (p1 and p2). Since the second ramp has a shallower angle the pusher will experience a lighter equilibrium force, but will encounter a greater resistance thanks to the greater force normal to the surface (n2). A user of the first ramp will have to exert a greater equilibrium force and will have to apply that force over a greater distance, but will experience less resistance as the trade off.
sin(90 - theta1) = n1/W => n1 = 3489.689
cos(90 - theta1) = p1/W => p1 = 268.56
sin(90-theta2) = n2/W => n2 = 3492.498
cos(90-theta2) = p2/W => p2 = 229.033
friction1 = 3489.689*mu
friction2 = 3492.498*mu
Minimum Push force 1 (F1) = 268.56 + friction1
Minimum Push force 2 (F2) = 229.033 + friction2
F1 - F2 = 39.527 + mu(-2.809) = 0 when mu = 14.072
So if mu > 14.072 then ramp 1 will require a lower minimum force.
If mu < 14.072 then ramp 2 will require a lower minimum force.
Since that's a retardedly high value for mu (< 1 for non-gripping substances), it's pretty safe to say ramp 2 will require less muscle to use at any given instant in time; which isn't a surprise since it's not as steep, not as high, and not as long.
Disclaimer: this is my first use of free body diagrams in seven years.
the object takes off
I used the values you provided.
Since the same mass is on both ramps the weight, and what units it's measured in, becomes irrelevant. The result is more a function of the ratios of the angles involved.
If you want an exact answer as to just how much harder it is to use ramp 1, then you need to go measure the coefficient of friction using a pull scale, a fully loaded rack, and a level surface.
Thank you for your help
OK that's what I thought. He's vastly over complicating things. Weight is the same, friction is the same. All that matters is angle for force required to move the object.I used the values you provided.
Since the same mass is on both ramps the weight, and what units it's measured in, becomes irrelevant. The result is more a function of the ratios of the angles involved.
If you want an exact answer as to just how much harder it is to use ramp 1, then you need to go measure the coefficient of friction using a pull scale, a fully loaded rack, and a level surface.
EDIT:
Although with a mu <= 1 you're looking at less than an additional 40 pounds of force to use the larger ramp.
If mu = .3 (approx. worst case from here) then you're looking at minimum push weights of 1316 lbs and 1277 lbs respectively
So is the force rated in newtons?