Futuremark has released a new patch and...

[Rogozhin]

Post the website links - and more than 2 games rollo - where the 5900 wins and I will post just as many where the 9800 wins.

rogo

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: Rogozhin
what did?

rogo

Buggy drivers and other problems with the physical card itself that made it difficult to set up. But you knew the answer when you asked the question...

 

[Rogozhin]

Megatomic

I didn't have one problem when taking my 8500 out and putting my 9700 in.

these were the steps i did.

uninsalled ati driver and control panel through add remove programs
deleted the ati folder in my c drive
searched for ati and deleted all ati.dll files
ran regclean and deleted all ati entries

shut down

install 9700 and plugged in the molex

started up

installed ati cat 3.2s (this was a while ago)
reboot
installed cat 3.2 control pannel.
reboot

no problems and games ran just fine.

You seem to imply that every person that uses ati products has a bad time-that's a logical fallacy and if you deny your implication then you should restate your proposition so it isn't nonsense.

rogo

 

[Rogozhin]

Meg

Implication again-"Buggy drivers and other problems with the physical card itself that made it difficult to set up. But you knew the answer when you asked the question..."

I didn't know the answer because I've not had problems-this was a sincere question and since you took it like a four year old I will anwer you in that vein.

rogo

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: Rogozhin
Meg

Implication again-"Buggy drivers and other problems with the physical card itself that made it difficult to set up. But you knew the answer when you asked the question..."

I didn't know the answer because I've not had problems-this was a sincere question and since you took it like a four year old I will anwer you in that vein.

rogo

Read this thread. Yeah, that's what I had to do to get my Radeon 9500 Pro to work. Like a 4 year old, please...

 

[Megatomic]

You seem to imply that every person that uses ati products has a bad time-that's a logical fallacy and if you deny your implication then you should restate your proposition so it isn't nonsense.

Interesting... I see more complaints than I can shake a stick at. And it just goes on and on, page after page.

 

[Rogozhin]

So you had stuttering on the desktop and in some games?

What games exactly and did you run a dxdiagnostic at the time-if so post it please.

I didn't imply that your post was from a 4 year old meg

rogo

 

[Megatomic]

There was more Rogo. I lost, yes lost, USB 2.0 on my nForce2 board. I couldn't run in AGP8X mode for a week or more. My monitor's display was shaky when the screen was displaying a mostly white image. And then the problems listed in that thread. I did eventually get most of it worked out but it was not easy.

And Rogozhin, sorry I came off so briskly, the frustration I felt when I was fighting with that 9500 Pro is apparently still lingering in me. I'll try to be more civil.

 

[Rogozhin]

Meg

Thank you for the applogy, I was completely sincere in my question 'what was it'?

That's a real bummer to have to go through that-I've never run an nforce2 mobo only via and sis chipsets but I will be wary from now on.

Why did you try to run in 8x mode meg?

I run usb 2.0 on my soyo KT333 ultra and my 9700 and works fine-I suppose it must be only on nforce 2 chipsets then?

I will go look at you latest link now.

Thank you for your civility-I've not run into it from a few indviduals here

Rogo

 

[Megatomic]

The only reason I wanted to run in AGP8X mode was because both the motherboard and the video card support it. I was eager to test it out even though there was going to be no perceptible performance gain from it. To me it was similar to ATA133. My motherboard supports it and my drives do too. If for some reason I was only getting ATA100 I would be concerned. Maybe I am overly anal about these things but if the hardware manufacturers claim that their equipment will work in a certain fashion I expect it to do just that when I attempt to use it.

I did get it to work (AGP8X) by following the procedure that Ghost outlined in that thread at nForcersHQ.com forums btw. I was pleased to say the least.

 

[nRollo]

I give up. These debates are turning me into a ruder person than I'd like to be.

 

[oldfart]

Originally posted by: Rollo
Old Fart:
You don't even have a 9800Pro if your rig page is right, and if you play "all games" at those settings on a 9700, you are losing out in my opinion. You're either losing out on high res clarity or fluid animation if you're at high res.

Rogo:
I really don't care about what nVidia says in advertising. If your business sold something more high ticket than coffee, you would realize how advertising works too. Believe it or not, it sometimes violates the logical fallacies and even skirts on breaking the law. <gasp>
You don't have much reason to advertise, "Our beans are mountain grown!" but nVidia has plenty of reason to say they're 30% faster, even if that just means at one game, at one setting, and they funded the game's development and asked the programmers to opitimize for nVidia.

And, yes, I STILL could give a fat rat's a$$ about any advertising claims, or benchmarks on games I don't use. I think Anand is pretty smart, and if he says a 5900 is as fast as a 9800 at 4xAA, 8X AF, that's good enough for me.

I know you and your Rage3d buddies are probably upset about this, but nVidia was bound to make a comeback sooner or later.

My rig is accurate (for the moment) . I DO play 6x/16x with my 9700P. I'm not the only one. You didn't? With 6x AA, you dont need to run a super high res to get rid of jaggies. I still question how well the 5900U can do it. Obviously, UT takes a MASSIVE hit with a high level of AA/AF on that card.

I have a great deal of respect for Anandtech, but they are not perfect. Notice he totally missed the
Splinter Cell issue. as well as Doom 3 IQ settings. That review is seriously flawed and needs to be done correctly.

No reviewer's benches are "good enough for me". Between incorrect/mismatched IQ settings, and the cheats of late, I put little stock in any of these "benchmarks".

 

[Shamrock]

Didnt Mike C over at NVNews.net say that screenshots on the new GFFX 5900 were adding a "blur filter" or something like that? so you cant blame image quality degradation on the 5900. I have no idea WHY it adds a blurring effect, but he said that when running the games, the image quality was as good as the picture he took with no AA/AF. However, he said he sent the results to NV for testing/investigation.

 

[oldfart]

Its not the blur effect, its the jaggies. Look at these shots:

FX 5900U 8xAA/8xAF UT2K3 ---37 FPS
9800P 6xAA/16xAF UT2K3 ---95 FPS

FX5900U 8xAA/8xAF UT2K3 ---30 FPS
9800P 6xAA/16xAF UT2K3 ---69 FPS

Look at the bottom window panes on the first set of shots. See the jaggies in the 5900U shot? The 9800P is smooth. Notice the framerate difference? One is nice and playable, the other...not.

 

[nRollo]

Well, you partially convinced me not to wait/blow $500 on the 5900. I ordered a 5800 last night, new one that doesn't have FlowFX. Mostly I'm just not very patient, and imagine this card will run my UT2003 at the settings I used to on my 9700Pro about as well. (11X8X32, all high, 4XAF)

If Sapphire wouldn't have cheaped out and yanked the RTCW from their Atlantis 9800 128 version (9700/256 9800 have it) I'd have one of those on the way instead.

Oh well. 6-7 months is the lifetime of a VGA for me, we'll see what's out then.

 

[Megatomic]

I'm holding out for a <$200 GF FX 5600 Ultra ViVo myself. I'll wait until Christmas if I have to.

 

[nRollo]

See the jaggies in the 5900U shot? The 9800P is smooth. Notice the framerate difference? One is nice and playable, the other...not.

Old Fart, I bet you were a 3dfx diehard who always championed AA.
Your post could just as easily read- "See the jaggies in the 5900 shot? If you turn up the resolution to 16X12 and turn on 2X AA, you won't anymore"

Why do people like you have to try and tell other people what settings they should run at, what's playable and what's not, etc.?
You act like some all knowing, high power guru and I wouldn't call your rigs "bleeding edge".

Yet, here your are slamming everyone who doesn't say "Hail ATI! Kings of AA!"

I buy VGAs etc to have fun playing with them, etc., not to try and prove "mine is longer than yours" or "I'm a smarter shopper" than you. Why do guys like you need to feel like you're smarter than others?

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: Rollo
You act like some all knowing, high power guru and you've got ... a Santa Cruz, a 19" monitor, etc,- I wouldn't call this stuff "bleeding edge".

And just what is wrong with this equipment? If I didn't have my nForce2 APU I'd still be lovingly using my TBSC, it is a great soundcard that has shown some serious staying power as it is still a high selling card after almost 3 years in the market. And a 19" CRT is the standard display at this time. They offer a perfect blend of size and affordability.

 

[oldfart]

Actually, no. I was not a fan at all of the 3dfx 5500. Didn't really like it and never owned one. I had a VisionTeK GF3 at the time. You shouldn't make assumptions.

Who have I slammed? Please provide a quote. Its actually YOU who slams anyone who questions that an nVidia card may not be perfect.

I buy a card to play games with the best framerate and IQ. The reason I got a 9700P to replace my 4600 was because of the poor AA/AF performance. The card was great without the filtering on, but took a huge performance hit with it enabled. I point out that it looks like the same may be true with the 5900U. You feel the need to tell everyone that they don't need good AA/AF performance. Who are you to tell people what level of IQ they want to use? If I like maximum quality. Good for me. I'm not alone.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Anyone know off the top of their head what the texture load is under UT2K3? Running the numbers through here. The blur effect appears to be from a post filter effect which would indicate that they are utilizing a back buffer that is the same size as the front buffer(this doesn't cause the blur in itself, but these artifacts are native to such a setup) which itself would be 58.6MB, add in Z buffer mem requirements and for buffers alone the 5900U running 8x AA would be chewing up 175.8MB before any textures or vertex data are stored on board. I know for older games the additional ~70MB of RAM would be plenty at the highest setting, but I'm not entirely sure on UT2K3. One of the reasons that I'm considering a 256MB 5900U over the 128MB part. BTW- For the ATi parts it isn't nearly as bad, although enough to warrant the 256MB R9800Pro over the 128MB. For the ATi parts you have 44MB for the back buffer and Z buffer running 16x12x6 along with another 7.3MB for the front buffer which has you @95.3MB leaving you 32.7MB for texture mem, vertex data, shader programs etc. on a 128MB board.

 

[oldfart]

Thanks Ben for all the technical information. Few can hold a candle to your 3D knowledge.

Rollol . I read though your post again. I don't attack or slam anyone. Not my belief or style. Who the hell do you think you are launching a personal attack on me or anyone else here?

Originally posted by: Rollo

See the jaggies in the 5900U shot? The 9800P is smooth. Notice the framerate difference? One is nice and playable, the other...not.

Old Fart, I bet you were a 3dfx diehard who always championed AA.
Your post could just as easily read- "See the jaggies in the 5900 shot? If you turn up the resolution to 16X12 and turn on 2X AA, you won't anymore"

Why do people like you have to try and tell other people what settings they should run at, what's playable and what's not, etc.?
You act like some all knowing, high power guru and I wouldn't call your rigs "bleeding edge".

Yet, here your are slamming everyone who doesn't say "Hail ATI! Kings of AA!"

I buy VGAs etc to have fun playing with them, etc., not to try and prove "mine is longer than yours" or "I'm a smarter shopper" than you. Why do guys like you need to feel like you're smarter than others?

I was never a 3dfx or any other "diehard"
Your BS comments about "guys like you" blah blah are just crap. I never came off that way and am not that way. You on the other hand, fit that mold perfectly. When did I ever talk about my system? I just pointed out that I like to play max details. I never once mentioned what my rig even is. You on the other hand criticized it as "not bleeding edge". When did I ever say it was? For the record, a Canterwood with a Gig of ram and a P4 @ 3.3 Ghz and a 9700P is not exactly a low end rig either. If there is anything I am proud of about my PC, it's the fact that it is nearly silent.

If you cant keep the discussion on a technical level, without launching unprovoked personal attacks, that says a lot about you.

 

[gururu]

I fear that without Rollo, this thread would not have lasted so long. That it has is a wonderful thing IMO. I tend to check out this thread a few times a day because it is exciting. the risk is though, that if you put out a personal opinion, you may get a personal attack.

I see that Rollo was so close to picking up a 9800pro, but went for a 5800.... I guess the debates will coninue!

ATI representatives seem to now be detracting their initial statement about incorporating a 3dmark cheat. now they are sticking to opimisation. also, a lot of people are reading into carmack and sweeneys comments too much. I seriously did not think that they were defining differences in nvidia or atis techniques.
gururu

 

[nRollo]

Old Fart:
I apologize, I misinterpreted your post(s) after a night of not much sleep due to back pain.

Like I said, I almost resigned myself to the 9800Pro, which is surely the better card than the one I bought. I was bored with the 9700Pro, wanted to try something new. (I also almost bought a 9700 Atlantis Ultimate, the one with the Zalman, but couldn't see going from 9700 to 9700 for a heatsink change)

Anyway, I'll let the board know how the new 5800s work with their "5900-esque" hsf and reputed ease of OCing to Ultra speed. (if anyone is interested)

I'm wondering if this is the 128bit interface bargain 5900 we've heard about?

In any case, if it suxorz there's always more cards at the store.

 

[muzz]

I wonder how long it will take them to find a way around that........ so they can render LESS this time.

 

[Rogozhin]

Rollo

If it suxors I'd be willing to lease it for a month

Rogo