FX vs 9800

[chizow]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

PS: Chiz, I don't think Ben ever did any 3D graphics programming in his lifetime, otherwise he would have never said anything like OpenGL being inferior to DirectX -- seeing as DirectX is the entire API for starters. OpenGL versus Direct3D, vendor specific extensions are nice, but what nobody ever seems to realize is that there are a set of "ARB" extensions - which are official, and vendor NEUTRAL. Everything you can do in Direct3D you can do in OpenGL, not to mention that you can do more in OpenGL.

Well I can't comment on whether he has 3D graphics programming experience, but I'm pretty sure he has 3D game programming experience. I think his comments stemmed from game performance relative to an API's feature set, but I'd rather not put words in his mouth or take his comments any further out of context...................

ARB/2 gets discussed quite often actually, particularly in Doom3 threads, but not necessarily on this board. Vendor neutral extensions are nice, but if neither of the major player's GPUs use them in actual games, whats the point?

Chiz

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: Rollo
"Either way I've eplained why noone will trade to you and the reasons are obvious, stop pretending that you are shocked. I wouldn't willingly shell over a product I'd spend a hard earned $400 on for a bunch of potential crap from a stranger that appears to be somewhat disgruntled"
Like I said:
1. A used FX Ultra isn't worth $400, I can buy a new one for that at newegg.com
2. I said I'd ship first
3. Do you buy anything on the forums Bunny? They always make you send the money first, how do you know they'll send the merchandise?

4. That is a fair deal: 1. The cheapest I've seen a retail ATI 9700 is $265. 2. $50 is usually worth $50. 3. An Audigy Gamer Retail is worth $40 4. I'd think a firewire controller, 12MB SLI, 16MB Banshee, and a 4X4X24CDRW would be worth $30 for the lot? 5. 3 decent games should be worth $15
Can you dispute any of these figures wise BunnyFoofoo? If not, that is ~$400 worth of stuff.

BTW Bunny: While you sit there saying "Rollo, your deal STINKS, a FX is worth FAR more than that pile of junk" did you ever consider I paid $390 of MY "hard earned money" for the 9700Pro just a few months ago? And that I'm taking as much risk as the guy with the FX Ultra, perhaps more so, because there are a LOT of people who don't even want a FX due to the noise and heat issues? Or do you just like to make snide little comments to me and try to screw up my trade?

I'd be interested to know what kind of rig YOU have BunnyFoofoo that you call my ATI 9700Pro, Audigy Gamer, and Smart n Friendly CDRW "a bunch of crap" ?

Consider this: What do you think an FX Ultra is going to be worth in May, with the nV35 coming out in June, and the hatred the card has generated in the press? Like I said, after more people have these cards (Ultras) and some decide they don't like the noise and can no longer return it, I should be able to make this trade pretty easily. (especially when you consider most of the people here think the card I'm trading is superior to the one I'm trading for)

Ignore the meaning of my post you ignorant fool. The only thing you've proven is that there aren't many people on these forums that have a 5800 Ultra, maybe a small handful at most. Now what are the chances that those owners would be browsing every thread and be able to catch your specific trade deal? Not very big I don't think. So when you think you've gone and proven that the 5800 Ultra is that much better than the 9700 Pro then I congratulate you on your journey to being an idoit. Maybe if you'd had half a brain you'd have been able to understand the meaning of my post. I never said your stuff was crap, I just said that in comparison to someone's recently purchased 5800 Ultra they aren't going to be as readily willing to go ahead and give up such a hefty investment no matter how good the deal was for used parts. Used is used, and even if they hate their 5800 Ultra for $400 it isn't going to be easy to admit that invesment was a bad one and give it up, why the hell do you think we even argue about hardware in the first place? For most of us its to justify the absurd amounts of money we spend on it. Heck for a 5800 Ultra you could get a PS2 and an Xbox for the same price... hardware in the computer industry is a beyotch.

 

[nRollo]

Now I know why the saying isn't "smart bunny"....

"The only thing you've proven is that there aren't many people on these forums that have a 5800 Ultra"
I haven't "proven" that at all.

"Now what are the chances that those owners would be browsing every thread and be able to catch your specific trade deal"
Pretty good if they're looking to sell their FX, they might search the For Sale forum to see what they've been selling for and hit my post?

"So when you think you've gone and proven that the 5800 Ultra is that much better than the 9700 Pro then I congratulate you on your journey to being an idoit"
A. I never said the Ultra was better than a 9700Pro, overall, I think it's probably worse. B. There's poetic justice in someone calling you an "idiot" and spelling it wrong

"Maybe if you'd had half a brain you'd have been able to understand the meaning of my post"
I have 2 Bachelors and work in IS, it's likely I have half a brain. I'm not a rocket scientist, but I'm not an "idoit" either.

"I just said that in comparison to someone's recently purchased 5800 Ultra they aren't going to be as readily willing to go ahead and give up such a hefty investment no matter how good the deal was for used parts"
If I had a 5800 Ultra I couldn't return, I'd make this deal. You keep on conveniently forgetting that the 5800 I'm trying to get is "used parts" also. They're used when you buy them and open the box FunnyBubbles.

"Used is used, and even if they hate their 5800 Ultra for $400 it isn't going to be easy to admit that invesment was a bad one and give it up"
LOL- see above. To you, my 9700Pro is "used", but some guy who's been using his 5800 for the last 3 weeks has a "brand new $400 card"! Sure thing Bunny- it's the nVidia magic, they're always worth exactly what you paid for them.

"For most of us its to justify the absurd amounts of money we spend on it. "
Not me. I could care less about brand name or what I spent on it. For me it's about the fun of trying new hardware. I argue about it because I see fan boys post gross exaggerations as "useful advice".

 

[BenSkywalker]

DirectX is the entire API for starters.

I was responding to a quote that directly stated DirectX, so I replied by stating DirectX. You can look through many of Carmack's own posts and he regularly refers to DirectX when he is talking about D3D in particular, only those with issues of semantics argue about that point

OpenGL versus Direct3D, vendor specific extensions are nice, but what nobody ever seems to realize is that there are a set of "ARB" extensions - which are official, and vendor NEUTRAL. Everything you can do in Direct3D you can do in OpenGL, not to mention that you can do more in OpenGL.

I don't think there are too many people that don't realize there are base features in OpenGL that are not vendor specific, that is why they have release versions after all. The current ARB extensions, which are vendor neutral, are years behind Direct3D in some cases. The only way to exploit current hardware features using the publicly available OGL builds are through vendor specific extensions. If you will note in my quote I brought up that this situation would change when OGL 2.0 is released which will bring OGL in line with that current boards offer and have a considerable amount of headroom for future feature implementations. Go check on Carmack's current DooM3 work. He has the ARB2 path which will utilize OGL 2.0, then he has specific code paths for the NV1X series of boards, NV2X series of boards, NV3X series of boards and R200 series. He has created numerous code paths depending on the vendor specific extensions in OpenGL. Using Direct3D there is no need to do this. Even when OpenGL 2.0 hits there will still be issues with legacy parts and drivers for a bit. Right now Direct3D is the overall superior 3D API for gaming. OpenGL needs an open standards HLSL what is supported by all the IHVs, they need to have a consistent fragment shader implementation across all boards, they need to have a set of standards relating to precission levels for internal ops. Those are just a few general example. All of these things are coming in OpenGL 2.0(the notes from the ARB discussions are floating around the web in different places), but they are not here yet.