G-sync necessary?

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tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,355
642
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Well Overwatch is an odd ball as well because the game simulation time is directly tied to FPS as well which is dumb. So yeah you want the highest FPS possible in it. Battlenonsense also covered that here: https://youtu.be/nilBzupE4Cc

From all the graphs and explanations of Overwatch, it seems like a poor game to test this stuff in right?

Either way, I think generally speaking, except for a few fringe/minuscule cases, you WANT Gsync.

Personally, I don't believe you should buy Nvidia if you can't afford Gsync. Doesn't even make sense to me, again barring a few niche situations.
 

Bacon1

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2016
3,430
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Either way, I think generally speaking, except for a few fringe/minuscule cases, you WANT Gsync.

Yep, *Sync is so nice for 99% of gamers that they are missing out by not using it. Only those who are playing "Pro" FPS and love that tearing so they can have a 1ms faster response time should do without it
 

akmaggot666

Member
Apr 14, 2013
125
2
81
Is G-Sync worth it? I think so . . . sort of. I can give you my experience if it helps. I upgraded from an older Dell 27" 1440p IPS @ 60Hz to that exact monitor, and don't at all regret the purchase. Gaming on it did indeed feel smoother, but I also upgraded my GPU at the same time (290x to 1070) for the total package, so obviously, it was better for that reason alone. Last week, however, I made the jump to 4k, and used my 1070 while waiting on my new 1080 Ti. I can tell the difference now that I no longer have it. For me personally, G-Sync was worth it, but I could certainly live without it if it came at the expense of better hardware in other areas such as a better CPU, GPU, or in my case, 4k.
I think that's the biggest fail. Like, u bought everything except the one thing everyone could appreciate, 144Hz+, IP for nicer screen but more response time, I am fine with TN 1ms response time that is a lot cheaper, 1080p or 1440p whatever, 24" 27" whatever, but 144Hz vs 60Hz, what makes the biggest difference for gammers.
u play bf4? u get into a heli and turn around and everything is super choppy/stuttery/laggy/flickery?, u turn it to 144Hz and everything goes smooth all of a sudden, no amd freesync or gsync. (but i am getting a gsync monitor in a week)
 

wanderica

Senior member
Oct 2, 2005
224
52
101
I think that's the biggest fail. Like, u bought everything except the one thing everyone could appreciate, 144Hz+, IP for nicer screen but more response time, I am fine with TN 1ms response time that is a lot cheaper, 1080p or 1440p whatever, 24" 27" whatever, but 144Hz vs 60Hz, what makes the biggest difference for gammers.
u play bf4? u get into a heli and turn around and everything is super choppy/stuttery/laggy/flickery?, u turn it to 144Hz and everything goes smooth all of a sudden, no amd freesync or gsync. (but i am getting a gsync monitor in a week)

Oh I understand how monitors work. It's not like I sold my old monitors. I'm not limited to a single monitor choice, or even a single PC for that matter. I typically don't play first person shooters all that much. I'm more of an RPGer, so I prefer large, highly detailed landscapes and eye candy over responsiveness. As I said, however, I can still appreciate and enjoy what 144 Hz adaptive sync brings. In an ideal world, I want everything, but I just can't have it yet. One day I'll have a 40" 144 Hz adaptive sync 4K monitor, but until then, I'll settle for my 3 monitor setup that I can switch between at need.
 

akmaggot666

Member
Apr 14, 2013
125
2
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Oh I understand how monitors work. It's not like I sold my old monitors. I'm not limited to a single monitor choice, or even a single PC for that matter. I typically don't play first person shooters all that much. I'm more of an RPGer, so I prefer large, highly detailed landscapes and eye candy over responsiveness. As I said, however, I can still appreciate and enjoy what 144 Hz adaptive sync brings. In an ideal world, I want everything, but I just can't have it yet. One day I'll have a 40" 144 Hz adaptive sync 4K monitor, but until then, I'll settle for my 3 monitor setup that I can switch between at need.
when u write like that, u never seen a 144Hz before, any game u play, also RPG, 144Hz is what removes choppyness when u turn around ur axis. I played currently on 144Hz with fps going free above and below and I don't see any tearing even it's probably happening, but that's the beauty with 144Hz, u don't really see it. But going for gsync in a week. And http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=threads/anti-flicker-monitors-is-expensive.2508440/#post-38934277 is where I describe my problem with a budged adaptive sync (amd freesync) monitor and a AMD card, which can happen to ppl, many issues over the net. That's why I am going to pay a bit extra for gsync.
 

bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,894
162
106
Yep, *Sync is so nice for 99% of gamers that they are missing out by not using it. Only those who are playing "Pro" FPS and love that tearing so they can have a 1ms faster response time should do without it

Would a 60hz freesync monitor be better than a non-freesync 120/144hz monitor? I remembered people saying that high refresh rates made screen tearing less noticeable even without freesync.

http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=threads/monitor-question-144-hz.2434592/
 

Bacon1

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2016
3,430
1,018
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Would a 60hz freesync monitor be better than a non-freesync 120/144hz monitor? I remembered people saying that high refresh rates made screen tearing less noticeable even without freesync.

http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=threads/monitor-question-144-hz.2434592/

Completely up to preference. Are you going to be gaming at FPS > 60? 70? 100? 120?

If you are only going to have say 50 fps avg on a 144hz monitor I'd say get a 60hz one with *Sync instead.

Personally I'd go for a mix, 75-100hz UW 3440x1440 with *Sync vs a 4k (imho waste too high pixel density / performance hit).
 

akmaggot666

Member
Apr 14, 2013
125
2
81
Would a 60hz freesync monitor be better than a non-freesync 120/144hz monitor? I remembered people saying that high refresh rates made screen tearing less noticeable even without freesync.

http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=threads/monitor-question-144-hz.2434592/
I use currently, playing BF4 with wandering fps, I never noticed screen tearing tbh

I just prefer to get a 144Hz rather, and all monitors basically have freesync, since it's free.. manufacturers give it out for free just to get ahead of pricy g-sync module monitors that cost ~120€ extra for the same model.
Just, DO NOT GET a AOC G2460PF, that $#!/'s broken, I listed my problems here in a post
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=threads/anti-flicker-monitors-is-expensive.2508440/

and remember, freesync works only with AMD, but I had severe problems with it, maybe unlucky me but who knows
 
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deustroop

Golden Member
Dec 12, 2010
1,916
354
136
Download the gsync pendulum demo. Turn off vsync / freesync and turn it to the fastest animation and the bar (show test pattern bottom left). You should see tearing easily when freesync is turned off and it will smooth out the bar when turned on. Check your OSD to see if there is an option to show the current refresh rate (my Acer shows it top right) as it should match the FPS and constantly go up/down as the fps does.

Here is how Nvidia describes the technology:

G-SYNC dynamically matches the refresh rate of the display to the frame rate output of the GPU. This eliminates tearing, minimizes stutter, and minimizes input lag. G-SYNC displays don't have a minimum refresh rate limit and variable refresh rate is supported up to the maximum supported by the LCD panel.

From its FAQ

Q: How much performance gain can I expect to see with G-SYNC technology?
A: NVIDIA G-SYNC ensures that every frame rendered by the GPU is displayed (up to the max refresh rate of the monitor). It does not increase the rate at which the GPU renders a frame.
http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync/faq#q1

---------------------------------
So G-sync is a reducer --it limits or matches the refresh rate to a lower frame rate, limited by the maximum refresh rate of the monitor. I surmise it has no effect when the frame rate exceeds the refresh rate.

I have such a thing here. The monitor is the
ASUS PB278/ 60 Hz refresh /PLS Panel/25 x14 res /5 ms response time with gsync. According to that description above, gsync will have no effect .
In Doom the cpu pushes fps from 60 to 85 fps. One thing stands out, that the fps clearly exceed the 60 Hz digital frequency of the monitor.

A miracle ?
 
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bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,894
162
106
Completely up to preference. Are you going to be gaming at FPS > 60? 70? 100? 120?
If you are only going to have say 50 fps avg on a 144hz monitor I'd say get a 60hz one with *Sync instead.
Personally I'd go for a mix, 75-100hz UW 3440x1440 with *Sync vs a 4k (imho waste too high pixel density / performance hit).
I noticed that most freesync 60hz monitors don't have LFC enabled and that feature is more common with 144hz monitors. I would prefer 120/144hz monitors because working with text eg scrolling would look alot better.

I use currently, playing BF4 with wandering fps, I never noticed screen tearing tbh

I just prefer to get a 144Hz rather, and all monitors basically have freesync, since it's free.. manufacturers give it out for free just to get ahead of pricy g-sync module monitors that cost ~120€ extra for the same model.
Just, DO NOT GET a AOC G2460PF, that $#!/'s broken, I listed my problems here in a post
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=threads/anti-flicker-monitors-is-expensive.2508440/

and remember, freesync works only with AMD, but I had severe problems with it, maybe unlucky me but who knows
There does seem to be more issues with that AOC model. There does seem to be some odd fixes in some threads which you could try if you still have the monitor. Many monitors have blur reduction/ulmb OSD setting which can cause flickering if its set high.
And AMD crimson caused flickering issues with freesync which was fixed/broken in some driver versions.
 

Bacon1

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2016
3,430
1,018
91
I have such a thing here. The monitor is the
ASUS PB278/ 60 Hz refresh /PLS Panel/25 x14 res /5 ms response time with gsync. According to that description above, gsync will have no effect .
In Doom the cpu pushes fps from 60 to 85 fps. One thing stands out, that the fps clearly exceed the 60 Hz digital frequency of the monitor.

A miracle ?

If you are asking if GSync is working on your monitor when playing above 60hz, no it is not. GSync and Freesync turn off when going above their max refresh range and just refresh at the max hz (60 in your case). So you'll get tearing unless you use VSync or a frame limiter to limit the game output to under 60 fps.
 

Bacon1

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2016
3,430
1,018
91
I noticed that some of the freesync 60hz monitors don't have LFC enabled and that feature is more common with 144hz monitors. I would prefer 120/144hz monitors because working with text eg scrolling would look alot better.

Right, but honestly you don't want to play under 40 fps avg even with *Sync. So 40-60 hz freesync range isn't the end of the world, though it's definitely not the best. That's why I'd recommend a 75hz+ Ultrawide over a 4k. You'll have way better performance in general (3440x1440 is about half the pixels as 4k so less GPU power needed) and there are many monitors with 75 or above, many of them 100 hz or above.
 

akmaggot666

Member
Apr 14, 2013
125
2
81
I noticed that most freesync 60hz monitors don't have LFC enabled and that feature is more common with 144hz monitors. I would prefer 120/144hz monitors because working with text eg scrolling would look alot better.


There does seem to be more issues with that AOC model. There does seem to be some odd fixes in some threads which you could try if you still have the monitor. Many monitors have blur reduction/ulmb OSD setting which can cause flickering if its set high.
And AMD crimson caused flickering issues with freesync which was fixed/broken in some driver versions.
I tried different drivers, nothing helped.
And there is no setting for blur reduction/ULMB, as far as I know ULMB is something that comes with G-Sync monitors... and can be used only at certian refresh rates like 100 120 when g-sync is turned off
 

wanderica

Senior member
Oct 2, 2005
224
52
101
when u write like that, u never seen a 144Hz before, any game u play, also RPG, 144Hz is what removes choppyness when u turn around ur axis. I played currently on 144Hz with fps going free above and below and I don't see any tearing even it's probably happening, but that's the beauty with 144Hz, u don't really see it. But going for gsync in a week. And http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=threads/anti-flicker-monitors-is-expensive.2508440/#post-38934277 is where I describe my problem with a budged adaptive sync (amd freesync) monitor and a AMD card, which can happen to ppl, many issues over the net. That's why I am going to pay a bit extra for gsync.

OK, I'll try this again since you clearly didn't understand the first time. I have 3 monitors on my desk at this exact moment: a 27" 1440p 60Hz IPS panel, a 27" 144Hz TN panel, and a 40" 60Hz 4K panel. I know how awesome 144Hz can be. I've been doing this since we argued about whether the FW900 (still wish I'd bought one of those) or the 2405 FPW was the best monitor choice. 4K at 40 inches looks better to me for the games I choose to play over 1440p at 144hz. When I can buy and use a 40" 4K monitor at 144Hz for less than a grand, I'll be first in line. Until then, it's a game of trade-offs. Since I mostly prefer less twitch based games, it was an easier decision. For those times when I want to boot up BF1, I have my high performance 1440p/144hz sitting slightly to the right of my primary.

The OP's question was whether GSync was worth it. As I said earlier, I think it is. If, however, 4K is important to you, it simply isn't possible. I also don't think GSync is worth the premium over freesync if it means sacrificing other hardware improvements.
 

wanderica

Senior member
Oct 2, 2005
224
52
101
It's possible with the Acer XB321HK? 4K 60Hz GSync.

Sorry for misspeaking there. It should have read, "If, however, 4K is important to you, it simply isn't possible at 144Hz." which is what the preceding paragraph was about. Thank you for the correction.
 

awnm

Junior Member
Aug 4, 2014
19
0
36
Ah right, that makes sense. It is surprising that the Acer is still the only 32" 4K GSync monitor. Despite seeming to be the optimal size, it mustn't have been a big hit else the competitors would have released their own models.
 

deustroop

Golden Member
Dec 12, 2010
1,916
354
136
So you'll get tearing unless you use VSync or a frame limiter to limit the game output to under 60 fps.

No. That was one point in the post .I would of course have reported any problems and there is absolutely no tearing--movement is smooth and clean. That concern, about fps above refresh always causing problems, is perhaps out dated with modern equipment and certainly does not apply here.I beat that game several times lol and have never had a problem with this setup. The monitors with faster refresh rates are over sold IMHO.
Edit

I don't understand how the game played without tearing. Maybe I just need glasses.
 
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crisium

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2001
2,643
615
136
Bacon is right. You just didn't notice the tearing.

That's not a bad thing, btw. People are just different.
 

Bacon1

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2016
3,430
1,018
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No. That was one point in the post .I would of course have reported any problems and there is absolutely no tearing--movement is smooth and clean. That concern, about fps above refresh always causing problems, is perhaps out dated with modern equipment and certainly does not apply here.

No... you must have had some kind of vsync enabled. It's impossible to not have tearing with it off when above or below refresh rate.

Maybe you were in borderless windowed mode which uses WDDM to apply triple buffered VSync, but something was preventing it or you just don't notice it.
 

deustroop

Golden Member
Dec 12, 2010
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354
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No... you must have had some kind of vsync enabled. It's impossible to not have tearing with it off when above or below refresh rate.

Maybe you were in borderless windowed mode which uses WDDM to apply triple buffered VSync, but something was preventing it or you just don't notice it.

Curious, but there was no vsync since the frequency is 60 hz and the fps were well over that, always between 65-85. So no vsync which would have matched fps to refresh rate @ 60.
 

Bacon1

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2016
3,430
1,018
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Curious, but there was no vsync since the frequency is 60 hz and the fps were well over that, always between 65-85. So no vsync which would have matched fps to refresh rate @ 60.

You can still have vsync but "unlimited" fps. It will just buffer the extra rendered frames but only update the display when full frames are available. That's how triple buffering works.

You have:

* Current Displayed Frame
* Last completed Frame
* Current Rendering Frame

And they swap between the last completed and current displayed so you never have a partial frame output (tearing).

That's handled by default even with vsync and anything disabled by WDDM when playing in borderless windowed mode. Fastsync also works similar for Nvidia cards
 

deustroop

Golden Member
Dec 12, 2010
1,916
354
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You can still have vsync but "unlimited" fps. It will just buffer the extra rendered frames but only update the display when full frames are available.

Full frames are only available on this monitor every 1/60 secs and total 60 every second. So how can buffering cause 85 fps on a 60 hz monitor?
 

Bacon1

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2016
3,430
1,018
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Full frames are only available on this monitor every 1/60 secs and total 60 every second. So how can buffering cause 85 fps on a 60 hz monitor?

Because thats the point of triple buffering. You have a 3rd place to buffer to so you can go above the hz and have "unlimited" fps, but still only update the display at 60hz.

It is impossible to show fps higher than the hz without tearing.

You can however still render faster but only display the most recent (thus lower input lag) frame when the monitor is available.

Normal VSync will stop rendering past 60 fps

Gsync and Freesync will lower the monitor refresh rate to match the lowered FPS instead of either A) Introducing tearing or B) Reducing FPS further to match monitor output ranges
 

deustroop

Golden Member
Dec 12, 2010
1,916
354
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I get it now.In the situation where the game/cpu generate higher fps than the refresh rate, the fps # shown on the monitor is not the actual displayed # of frames. No matter what the game rendered fps # is, with a lower hz, the only frames one will actually see is the hz number, here 60. Fps are disconnected from actual display, buffered and then fed out to the display at 60 per second.Why didn't someone say that.lol.
Thx,
 
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