G80 Stuff

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Interesting if true.

Interesting if true? How about amazing if true! C'mon Ackmed. Bite your lip and say something good about the idea of nvidia's forthcoming G80's. Your bias is growing on a daily basis, it would seem. You had to, or were just compulsed to throw in a dig.

Originally posted by: Nightmare225


I have to admit, he does seem very biased towards the green team.

Originally posted by: schneiderguy

ackmed biased to the green team? shens

So kensplayer, why go out of the way to say that I have a growing bias, yet post nothing about crusader blatanly bias post? You and a few others made it a point to quote me, when all I said was the the info was "interesting". There is a lot more bulletin board material in his post, yet not a peep from you, or them. Wonder why that is? I think its pretty obvious. At least be consistant.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Is it possible that ATI (DAMIT) wants Nvidia to release first? Just to get an idea of how fast they are. Then work on getting high enough clocks to compete/surpass? The last time I saw ATI release something first was the 9700. Or was that very very late? I can't remember. LOL.

You may be on the right track, but I think the main reason R600 is coming later is because it's on 80nm. Nvidia can be first because they're using "tried and true" 90nm.

But it's going to cost ATI a lot of early adopters.
------------

One thing I think Nvidia may not be prepared for (and may be ATI's ace-in-the-hole) is if ATI goes to a straight up 512-bit memory bus.

ATI laid the foundadation back in the X1800 days with the 512-bit ring bus -- the chips are already capable of handling 512-bits of memory bandwidth; they just have to pack 512-bits worth of chips on the PCB with all the added traces and manufacturing costs.


But where I think Nvidia did right (and ATI may pay for waiting) is putting 128 unified shaders on the 8800GTX. On paper, that's a huge number and it will eat up massive die space. I can't really see ATI having more than 128 unified shaders and in fact, that's probably (in my humble guess) the number ATI was targeting for R600.

Doesn't Xenos (R500/Xbox360) have 64 unified shaders? I really can't see ATI going for more than 128 with R600.

With 80nm ATI will probably have a clockspeed advantage, and the possiblity of 512-bit memory bus would be good for ultra high res/high AA situations. But by consistently following Nvidia, ATI gets less of an opportunity to skim the market with those overpriced launch cards. Take the X1950 for example - it's launch MSRP was $450, while going back about a year the 7800GTX 512MB was $600 MSRP I believe and was going for even more!

Not only that, but it gives NVIDIA the chance to counter. And know exactly what to counter with. Again like I said earlier it's 'only 90nm' and 'only GDDR3' because they can make it cheaply and quickly while still selling at a premium to consumers since ATI has no counter. Then when ATI hits with the R600, they can counter with our 'new' 8900 series which is just a optical shrink to 80nm with GDDR4 or whatnot. ATI makes damn good cards but I've never owned one yet just because it seems like everytime I build a computer, it's nvidia that has the new card out yet and ati doesnt. I know i sound like a fanboy for saying that but it's true.....happened with my 6800GT and my 7800GT

 

[redbox]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Interesting if true.

Will be funny to see some people claim the power req's dont matter when and if this card does use as much as they claim it will. As it is now, thats one of the keys NV fans harp on, the low power req's of current cards. To me, it wont matter, just as it doesnt now.

Interesting if true? How about amazing if true! C'mon Ackmed. Bite your lip and say something good about the idea of nvidia's forthcoming G80's. Your bias is growing on a daily basis, it would seem. You had to, or were just compulsed to throw in a dig.

The least he could say is that 8xAA should have the performance it needs now.

 

[DeathReborn]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Is it possible that ATI (DAMIT) wants Nvidia to release first? Just to get an idea of how fast they are. Then work on getting high enough clocks to compete/surpass? The last time I saw ATI release something first was the 9700. Or was that very very late? I can't remember. LOL.

You may be on the right track, but I think the main reason R600 is coming later is because it's on 80nm. Nvidia can be first because they're using "tried and true" 90nm.

But it's going to cost ATI a lot of early adopters.
------------

One thing I think Nvidia may not be prepared for (and may be ATI's ace-in-the-hole) is if ATI goes to a straight up 512-bit memory bus.

ATI laid the foundadation back in the X1800 days with the 512-bit ring bus -- the chips are already capable of handling 512-bits of memory bandwidth; they just have to pack 512-bits worth of chips on the PCB with all the added traces and manufacturing costs.


But where I think Nvidia did right (and ATI may pay for waiting) is putting 128 unified shaders on the 8800GTX. On paper, that's a huge number and it will eat up massive die space. I can't really see ATI having more than 128 unified shaders and in fact, that's probably (in my humble guess) the number ATI was targeting for R600.

Doesn't Xenos (R500/Xbox360) have 64 unified shaders? I really can't see ATI going for more than 128 with R600.

With 80nm ATI will probably have a clockspeed advantage, and the possiblity of 512-bit memory bus would be good for ultra high res/high AA situations. But by consistently following Nvidia, ATI gets less of an opportunity to skim the market with those overpriced launch cards. Take the X1950 for example - it's launch MSRP was $450, while going back about a year the 7800GTX 512MB was $600 MSRP I believe and was going for even more!

Not only that, but it gives NVIDIA the chance to counter. And know exactly what to counter with. Again like I said earlier it's 'only 90nm' and 'only GDDR3' because they can make it cheaply and quickly while still selling at a premium to consumers since ATI has no counter. Then when ATI hits with the R600, they can counter with our 'new' 8900 series which is just a optical shrink to 80nm with GDDR4 or whatnot. ATI makes damn good cards but I've never owned one yet just because it seems like everytime I build a computer, it's nvidia that has the new card out yet and ati doesnt. I know i sound like a fanboy for saying that but it's true.....happened with my 6800GT and my 7800GT

You've hitr the nail on the head there. nVidia wants the profitable holiday market before bumping it with a refresh. If they'd gone for 80nm it might have been shipping in 07 instead of next month. It does seem that when I build a new PC for myself it's nVidia on the ball with new cards & ATI coming a few months later with sometimes a superior product, just at the wrong time for me. I will be replacing my 2 X1800XT's with R600 (1 at least) so I can at least stay objective about things.

90nm will make the Core's more expensive but the process is mature so yields should be good and using cheaper, readily available GDDR3 on a 384bit bus is also a good use of available resources. I just hope it doesn't hold the performance back.

Now the problem is do I keep my 580W PSU or buy a nice new 1KW PSU and go SLI... £240 for a 1KW PSU or £70 for a second 580W Modular PSU...

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

we know for sure that nvidia uses Guerilla Marketing - in addition to traditional marketing - and it IS in "full hype" mode.

Oh really? Then I guess you'll have no trouble pointing out AEG members in full blown hype mode will you?

i don't see any current r600 threads

You're blind.
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31049

you're blind if you can't see for yourself - AEG IS at work . . . here.

and i don't EVER visit beyond3d . . . i don't care what THEY are discussing . . . this is ATF and all i see are current G80 threads.

i wondered how long it would take for someone to bring up the AEG thing lol. they got caught out on that one, they're probably doing it in house now.

i havent actually seen any Nvidia sourced hype/info about the G80, i dont surf the net as much as i used to but all ive seen is rumours from excited fanboys and the stuff daily tech/VR-zone coughed up

they have been pretty tight lipped from my point of view.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

you're blind if you can't see for yourself - AEG IS at work . . . here.

You can *definitively prove* this assertion?

i don't EVER visit beyond3d . . . i don't care what THEY are discussing

Your loss. Hard to claim you are keeping up with things in the 3d world if you don't though.

this is ATF and all i see are current G80 threads

I guess more people here are interested in nvidia products than ATi products despite the best efforts of the "red team" here...

i am more interested in g80 than i am in r600
--right at the moment

and my choice of forum for discussing "things in the 3d world " is my business . . . i read far more than AT/ATF for HW news.

clearly i have no problem staying ahead of you
:Q

haha good old apoppin.... articulate with his smileys

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
I guess NV is going to have quite big head start. Similiar to 7800GTX and the X850XT PE.

depends what you mean by 'headstart'

they are simply first with a next gen part

and this scenario has been repeated endlessly since ati competed with nvidia . . . someone has to be second.

and the results are not dependant on who is first to market although nvidia does get the high-end holiday market by itself. . . .
[the 8500 was 'first and got creamed by the ti series; nv30 was first and you know what r300 did to it . . . everything else kinda equals out. . . . ]

Im talking about 7800GTX and X850XTPE days. The 7800GTX/GT dominated the high end market for several months without competition (ATi lacked feature/IQ/speed/dual GPu solution at that time as the X850XT PE was getting severly old). Do you think X1950XTX can compete with a G80? G80 is new, and if prove to be faster than a 7900GTX SLi/7950GX2 (which will most probably happen) then NV can successfully dominate the highend market with their 8800GTS/GTX just like the 7800GTX/GT days. Trust me, the marketing PR from NV will unleash a whole new chapter never seen before

Just like nvidia's marketing blitz that they were FIRST with DX9 and NV30 Ultra Dustbuster?

let me remind you that first does not matter - it did not matter with the x850xt and it did not matter with NV30 . . . le me remind you of nv30:

Nvidia Preps Audience For NV30 Launch

Without disclosing any benchmarks, the NV30 will generate four times the performance of the GeForce4, according to the presentation. The floating point unit will be capable of 51 billion floating point operations per second, or 51 gigaFLOPS, which Nvidia claims to be 50 times the capability of an SGI Infinite Reality engine, which was introduced by SGI in 1996. (SGI's InfiniteReality4 engine ships with the company's latest Onyx workstations.)

The NV30 can render greater than 100 "Jurassic Park dinosaurs" at 100 frames per second or higher, the company claims using the floating-point power of the NV30, which is greater than a Cray SV-1 supercomputer, the company claims.

The chip's power will be shown off through "real-time cinematic shading", according to the presentation. Nvidia executives showed off effects ranging from brushed metal to melting ice, along with different materials such as vegetation, "thin film", and skin.

r300 got released a few months later and we know how that turned out.

nvidia's marketing machine is in full-hype mode . . . again

it is meaningless UNTIL we see benchmarks. . . . THEN i may well be "impressed" . ..

and

IF r600 is not competetive then i will be "really" impressed.

Why are you bringing up the NV30? Im talking about the first introduction of the G70. Was G70 turned out the same as NV30? No.

When the 7800GTX hit the streets, it was much faster than the X850XT PE. It provided new features as well as being single slot. It brought new IQ enhancements like TRAA. ATi had NO anwser. Simply, nVIDIA enjoyed the domination of the high end market where almost ALL the profit comes from. Thats about 6 months without anyh answer at all due to R520's problems with its 90nm process.

Im simply saying that the G80 will MOST probably be faster than the X1950XTX (logically), not to mention the 7950GX2. It will most probably have better features, much more IQ features AND supports DX10. Now, what im trying to say is, ATi has no anwser. R600 isnt due till early next year. Its soon christmas, and with the G80s rolling into the highend market, NOTHING will be able to match them in neither performance/features/IQ.
Highend markets generally generate the profits. nVIDIA will have atleast 3months of no competiton while enjoying the cash flowing in. As said, its christmas, and one of the biggest seasons for the market.

Unlike ATi who cant market very well even with the R300, (ATi wasnt really known back then) nVIDIA has ALOT more reputation among the average joe. More people know about this company. nVIDIA takes advantage of this. Its marketing, and its smart business.

If it turns out to be due another NV30 which is highly unlikely (One of the biggest reasons NV30 failed was due to nVIDIA and MS poor relationship but this time around i dont think thats the case), then R.I.P nVIDIA.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Interesting if true.

Interesting if true? How about amazing if true! C'mon Ackmed. Bite your lip and say something good about the idea of nvidia's forthcoming G80's. Your bias is growing on a daily basis, it would seem. You had to, or were just compulsed to throw in a dig.

Originally posted by: Nightmare225


I have to admit, he does seem very biased towards the green team.

Originally posted by: schneiderguy

ackmed biased to the green team? shens

So kensplayer, why go out of the way to say that I have a growing bias, yet post nothing about crusader blatanly bias post? You and a few others made it a point to quote me, when all I said was the the info was "interesting". There is a lot more bulletin board material in his post, yet not a peep from you, or them. Wonder why that is? I think its pretty obvious. At least be consistant.

You should be flattered Ackmed. I really don't address Crusader's posts because they are usually flat out cheerleading. You on the other hand try to be as subtle as possible and stay under the radar with the "little digs". I like to single those guys out. You're one of them. And at least crusader has some sort of personality. You on the other hand, are a bit more robotic if you don't mind me saying so.

You see, a true enthusiast would only have to look at the 8800GTS (not GTX) and be amazed at it's specs. With an emoticon something along the lines of this: :Q

All you have to say is, "Interesting". Leaves you WIDE open. It's more than interesting to an enthusiast. It is pretty big news. You need to know that I am fully aware that until we see it in action, we should reserve judgement. But I really do know for certain, if this had been R600 specs being discussed here and all potential features, you would be on your soapbox. You know it, I know it, and everybody here knows it. You're the only one who will never admit it. But who needs you to admit it anyway. We know.

 

[LittleNemoNES]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Interesting if true.

Interesting if true? How about amazing if true! C'mon Ackmed. Bite your lip and say something good about the idea of nvidia's forthcoming G80's. Your bias is growing on a daily basis, it would seem. You had to, or were just compulsed to throw in a dig.

Originally posted by: Nightmare225


I have to admit, he does seem very biased towards the green team.

Originally posted by: schneiderguy

ackmed biased to the green team? shens

So kensplayer, why go out of the way to say that I have a growing bias, yet post nothing about crusader blatanly bias post? You and a few others made it a point to quote me, when all I said was the the info was "interesting". There is a lot more bulletin board material in his post, yet not a peep from you, or them. Wonder why that is? I think its pretty obvious. At least be consistant.

You should be flattered Ackmed. I really don't address Crusader's posts because they are usually flat out cheerleading. You on the other hand try to be as subtle as possible and stay under the radar with the "little digs". I like to single those guys out. You're one of them. And at least crusader has some sort of personality. You on the other hand, are a bit more robotic if you don't mind me saying so.

You see, a true enthusiast would only have to look at the 8800GTS (not GTX) and be amazed at it's specs. With an emoticon something along the lines of this: :Q

All you have to say is, "Interesting". Leaves you WIDE open. It's more than interesting to an enthusiast. It is pretty big news. You need to know that I am fully aware that until we see it in action, we should reserve judgement. But I really do know for certain, if this had been R600 specs being discussed here and all potential features, you would be on your soapbox. You know it, I know it, and everybody here knows it. You're the only one who will never admit it. But who needs you to admit it anyway. We know.

How did you extrapolate all of that from simply 'interesting?'
Sure it's not the usual response but come on!

say no to e-bullies.

 

[schneiderguy]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: schneiderguy

ackmed biased to the green team? shens

So kensplayer, why go out of the way to say that I have a growing bias, yet post nothing about crusader blatanly bias post? You and a few others made it a point to quote me, when all I said was the the info was "interesting". There is a lot more bulletin board material in his post, yet not a peep from you, or them. Wonder why that is? I think its pretty obvious. At least be consistant.

what? i didnt quote you. you refrained from bashing nvidia in this thread, great. do you want a cookie?

 

[hemmy]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
I guess NV is going to have quite big head start. Similiar to 7800GTX and the X850XT PE.

depends what you mean by 'headstart'

they are simply first with a next gen part

and this scenario has been repeated endlessly since ati competed with nvidia . . . someone has to be second.

and the results are not dependant on who is first to market although nvidia does get the high-end holiday market by itself. . . .
[the 8500 was 'first and got creamed by the ti series; nv30 was first and you know what r300 did to it . . . everything else kinda equals out. . . . ]

Im talking about 7800GTX and X850XTPE days. The 7800GTX/GT dominated the high end market for several months without competition (ATi lacked feature/IQ/speed/dual GPu solution at that time as the X850XT PE was getting severly old). Do you think X1950XTX can compete with a G80? G80 is new, and if prove to be faster than a 7900GTX SLi/7950GX2 (which will most probably happen) then NV can successfully dominate the highend market with their 8800GTS/GTX just like the 7800GTX/GT days. Trust me, the marketing PR from NV will unleash a whole new chapter never seen before

Just like nvidia's marketing blitz that they were FIRST with DX9 and NV30 Ultra Dustbuster?

let me remind you that first does not matter - it did not matter with the x850xt and it did not matter with NV30 . . . le me remind you of nv30:

Nvidia Preps Audience For NV30 Launch

Without disclosing any benchmarks, the NV30 will generate four times the performance of the GeForce4, according to the presentation. The floating point unit will be capable of 51 billion floating point operations per second, or 51 gigaFLOPS, which Nvidia claims to be 50 times the capability of an SGI Infinite Reality engine, which was introduced by SGI in 1996. (SGI's InfiniteReality4 engine ships with the company's latest Onyx workstations.)

The NV30 can render greater than 100 "Jurassic Park dinosaurs" at 100 frames per second or higher, the company claims using the floating-point power of the NV30, which is greater than a Cray SV-1 supercomputer, the company claims.

The chip's power will be shown off through "real-time cinematic shading", according to the presentation. Nvidia executives showed off effects ranging from brushed metal to melting ice, along with different materials such as vegetation, "thin film", and skin.

r300 got released a few months later and we know how that turned out.

nvidia's marketing machine is in full-hype mode . . . again

it is meaningless UNTIL we see benchmarks. . . . THEN i may well be "impressed" . ..

and

IF r600 is not competetive then i will be "really" impressed.

Why are you bringing up the NV30? Im talking about the first introduction of the G70. Was G70 turned out the same as NV30? No.

When the 7800GTX hit the streets, it was much faster than the X850XT PE. It provided new features as well as being single slot. It brought new IQ enhancements like TRAA. ATi had NO anwser. Simply, nVIDIA enjoyed the domination of the high end market where almost ALL the profit comes from. Thats about 6 months without anyh answer at all due to R520's problems with its 90nm process.

Im simply saying that the G80 will MOST probably be faster than the X1950XTX (logically), not to mention the 7950GX2. It will most probably have better features, much more IQ features AND supports DX10. Now, what im trying to say is, ATi has no anwser. R600 isnt due till early next year. Its soon christmas, and with the G80s rolling into the highend market, NOTHING will be able to match them in neither performance/features/IQ.
Highend markets generally generate the profits. nVIDIA will have atleast 3months of no competiton while enjoying the cash flowing in. As said, its christmas, and one of the biggest seasons for the market.

Unlike ATi who cant market very well even with the R300, (ATi wasnt really known back then) nVIDIA has ALOT more reputation among the average joe. More people know about this company. nVIDIA takes advantage of this. Its marketing, and its smart business.

If it turns out to be due another NV30 which is highly unlikely (One of the biggest reasons NV30 failed was due to nVIDIA and MS poor relationship but this time around i dont think thats the case), then R.I.P nVIDIA.

you just said almost all profit comes from high end...that is the ABSOLUTE opososite of reality

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: gersson


How did you extrapolate all of that from simply 'interesting?'

How did you not?

It's what followed his first statement that counted more towards the context. But, you're right. It's really not important. I'll ignore him. In a really good mood tonight and refuse to get drawn into the BS.

QUESTION OF THE DAY: Does anyone think that the sudden huge climb in transistors could be, in part, cache memory in the core?

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: gersson


How did you extrapolate all of that from simply 'interesting?'

How did you not?

It's what followed his first statement that counted more towards the context. But, you're right. It's really not important. I'll ignore him. In a really good mood tonight and refuse to get drawn into the BS.

QUESTION OF THE DAY: Does anyone think that the sudden huge climb in transistors could be, in part, cache memory in the core?

Transistor count could be so huge because of ROPs, TMUs, Pure Video/SLi related things, S.M 4.0, memory interface, register file, and scheduling takes alot of space.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: Matt2
I dont think we'll see 512bit memory bus AND GDDR4.

The added complexity of a memory bus 512bits wide plus using expensive GDDR4... we're talking a huge manufacturing cost that will be ever so graciously passed down to us.

I don't think GDDR4 is that much more money, especially compared to high end GDDR3 (also expensive). Especially since ATI's already done it on the X1950XTX. Plus, 1GHz GDDR4 is the slowest speed grade there is for GDDR4, making it also the 'cheapest'.

I think Nvidia is sticking with GDDR3 for the time being because of the quantities of G80 they want to ship; just like going on 90nm, they're picking the safest parts to get in quantity.

512bit ring-bus jsut allows ATI to process information internally using the 512bit bus. It has nothing to do with the external memory bus from core to memory.

It can process 512-bits already, and address up to 512-bits externally (unless I'm gravely mistaken). It's meant to be scalable for future generations, which is why ATI invested so much R&D into the ring bus.

At any rate, "I don't think ATI will do it, it will be too complex and cost too much" is the exact attitude everyone took to a 256-bit memory bus ATI had on R300, and I wouldn't be too surprised if history repeats itself on R600.

But I will grant that 'only' 384 bits is still a possibility for R600.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
I guess NV is going to have quite big head start. Similiar to 7800GTX and the X850XT PE.

depends what you mean by 'headstart'

they are simply first with a next gen part

and this scenario has been repeated endlessly since ati competed with nvidia . . . someone has to be second.

and the results are not dependant on who is first to market although nvidia does get the high-end holiday market by itself. . . .
[the 8500 was 'first and got creamed by the ti series; nv30 was first and you know what r300 did to it . . . everything else kinda equals out. . . . ]

Im talking about 7800GTX and X850XTPE days. The 7800GTX/GT dominated the high end market for several months without competition (ATi lacked feature/IQ/speed/dual GPu solution at that time as the X850XT PE was getting severly old). Do you think X1950XTX can compete with a G80? G80 is new, and if prove to be faster than a 7900GTX SLi/7950GX2 (which will most probably happen) then NV can successfully dominate the highend market with their 8800GTS/GTX just like the 7800GTX/GT days. Trust me, the marketing PR from NV will unleash a whole new chapter never seen before

Just like nvidia's marketing blitz that they were FIRST with DX9 and NV30 Ultra Dustbuster?

let me remind you that first does not matter - it did not matter with the x850xt and it did not matter with NV30 . . . le me remind you of nv30:

Nvidia Preps Audience For NV30 Launch

Without disclosing any benchmarks, the NV30 will generate four times the performance of the GeForce4, according to the presentation. The floating point unit will be capable of 51 billion floating point operations per second, or 51 gigaFLOPS, which Nvidia claims to be 50 times the capability of an SGI Infinite Reality engine, which was introduced by SGI in 1996. (SGI's InfiniteReality4 engine ships with the company's latest Onyx workstations.)

The NV30 can render greater than 100 "Jurassic Park dinosaurs" at 100 frames per second or higher, the company claims using the floating-point power of the NV30, which is greater than a Cray SV-1 supercomputer, the company claims.

The chip's power will be shown off through "real-time cinematic shading", according to the presentation. Nvidia executives showed off effects ranging from brushed metal to melting ice, along with different materials such as vegetation, "thin film", and skin.

r300 got released a few months later and we know how that turned out.

nvidia's marketing machine is in full-hype mode . . . again

it is meaningless UNTIL we see benchmarks. . . . THEN i may well be "impressed" . ..

and

IF r600 is not competetive then i will be "really" impressed.

Why are you bringing up the NV30? Im talking about the first introduction of the G70. Was G70 turned out the same as NV30? No.

When the 7800GTX hit the streets, it was much faster than the X850XT PE. It provided new features as well as being single slot. It brought new IQ enhancements like TRAA. ATi had NO anwser. Simply, nVIDIA enjoyed the domination of the high end market where almost ALL the profit comes from. Thats about 6 months without anyh answer at all due to R520's problems with its 90nm process.

Im simply saying that the G80 will MOST probably be faster than the X1950XTX (logically), not to mention the 7950GX2. It will most probably have better features, much more IQ features AND supports DX10. Now, what im trying to say is, ATi has no anwser. R600 isnt due till early next year. Its soon christmas, and with the G80s rolling into the highend market, NOTHING will be able to match them in neither performance/features/IQ.
Highend markets generally generate the profits. nVIDIA will have atleast 3months of no competiton while enjoying the cash flowing in. As said, its christmas, and one of the biggest seasons for the market.

Unlike ATi who cant market very well even with the R300, (ATi wasnt really known back then) nVIDIA has ALOT more reputation among the average joe. More people know about this company. nVIDIA takes advantage of this. Its marketing, and its smart business.

If it turns out to be due another NV30 which is highly unlikely (One of the biggest reasons NV30 failed was due to nVIDIA and MS poor relationship but this time around i dont think thats the case), then R.I.P nVIDIA.

WHY am i bringing up NV30?

why not?

i also brought up ATi's failure with 8500 - even though they were first.

"history" is also interesting and "failure" - despite anticipation and hype - is part of BOTH company's history

so EITHER the g80 OR the r600 could be percieved a "failure" or 'success' - it is IMPOSSIBLE to predict now - even though you think so.

and you are 100% WRONG about "nVIDIA enjoyed the domination of the high end market where almost ALL the profit comes from."
:thumbsdown:

the profit comes from the low end

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Why are you (apoppin) bringing up the NV30? Im talking about the first introduction of the G70. Was G70 turned out the same as NV30? No.

Because he's a fanatic troll being pumped full of his lines by ATi's PR department. Great to know they haven't managed to lift themselves out of the sewer yet.

The fanatics can't bring us any good news on R600 and they can't easily discredit the G80 stuff, despite it only being wild speculation, so they resort to trying to smear G80 with nv30.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Why are you (apoppin) bringing up the NV30? Im talking about the first introduction of the G70. Was G70 turned out the same as NV30? No.

Because he's a fanatic troll being pumped full of his lines by ATi's PR department. Great to know they haven't managed to lift themselves out of the sewer yet.

The fanatics can't bring us any good news on R600 and they can't easily discredit the G80 stuff, despite it only being wild speculation, so they resort to trying to smear G80 with nv30.

of course you need to mention that you are a nvidian troll who only remembers the bad things that happen to ati . .. nvidia is the perfect company in your little screwed up world

you'd like to forget history that puts your company in a bad light

 

[Cookie Monster]

Performance and Enthusiast Graphics Cards Drive Market Revenues'

?ATI and Nvidia continued to dominate the desktop GPU market in the second quarter, but with a shift in relative positions. Nvidia has lead ATI in the discrete desktop segment for four consecutive quarters. However, with the launch of its flagship Radeon 1900 series and improvements in segments, ATI was able to regain lost segment share in Q2?06. The delays ATI experienced in bringing its latest generation GPU technology to market also assisted Nvidia in growing share during the period,? said Lisa Epstein, a senior analyst at Jon Peddie Research.

Note that most the revenue comes from the high end/performance/enthuisast. Its 74% of the total revenue.

Not to mention high end products have been creeping up price generation to generation. A 9700pro was released around $299. The 7800GTX was around $599. nVIDIA and ATi (well not any more) have always fought for the mid/high end because they cannot sustain a fight with Intel in the IGP/low end sector (where millions needs to be sold, unlike the high end which only tens of thousands needs to be sold to match it). Similiar to AMD resorting to quality over quantity.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Why are you (apoppin) bringing up the NV30? Im talking about the first introduction of the G70. Was G70 turned out the same as NV30? No.

Because he's a fanatic troll being pumped full of his lines by ATi's PR department. Great to know they haven't managed to lift themselves out of the sewer yet.

The fanatics can't bring us any good news on R600 and they can't easily discredit the G80 stuff, despite it only being wild speculation, so they resort to trying to smear G80 with nv30.

of course you need to mention that you are a nvidian troll who only remembers the bad things that happen to ati . .. nvidia is the perfect company in your little screwed up world

you'd like to forget history that puts your company in a bad light

LOL! History put nvidia in a bad light does it? I'll happily compare ATi & nvidia's histories anytime you like appopin.

And once again I have NO connection to nvidia whatsoever other than owning their cards myself and selling other people their cards as do millions of other retailers.

Oh, and thanks for admitting what we all already knew. Now, if only ackmed would do the same.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Performance and Enthusiast Graphics Cards Drive Market Revenues'

?ATI and Nvidia continued to dominate the desktop GPU market in the second quarter, but with a shift in relative positions. Nvidia has lead ATI in the discrete desktop segment for four consecutive quarters. However, with the launch of its flagship Radeon 1900 series and improvements in segments, ATI was able to regain lost segment share in Q2?06. The delays ATI experienced in bringing its latest generation GPU technology to market also assisted Nvidia in growing share during the period,? said Lisa Epstein, a senior analyst at Jon Peddie Research.

Note that most the revenue comes from the high end/performance/enthuisast. Its 74% of the total revenue.

Not to mention high end products have been creeping up price generation to generation. A 9700pro was released around $299. The 7800GTX was around $599. nVIDIA and ATi (well not any more) have always fought for the mid/high end because they cannot sustain a fight with Intel in the IGP/low end sector (where millions needs to be sold, unlike the high end which only tens of thousands needs to be sold to match it). Similiar to AMD resorting to quality over quantity.

i found this very interesting . . . thanks.

however, i notice that they lump ALL enthusiast and performance cards together

Furthermore, standalone graphics cards that belong to enthusiast and performance classes, which means that they cost $199 and beyond, bring 74% of the whole market?s revenues,

so the x1600/7600 class & up bring in the most revenue . . . by this does not address the high-end - by itself - which is what we are discussing.

i suspect the high-end is still relative small compared to 'mainstrean/enthusiast'.

i'd really like to see a further breakdown

edit: What admission, Gstanfor?

that you are a nvidian troll ... everyone knows already

 

[Cookie Monster]

I agree. Im very interested about the actual numbers by breaking down the "enthusiasts/performance" sector. This way, we have a clear idea on which is the most influential to the total revenue and hence profit.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
I agree. Im very interested about the actual numbers by breaking down the "enthusiasts/performance" sector. This way, we have a clear idea on which is the most influential to the total revenue and hence profit.

i always understood that the "high end" drives the market . . . it IS a big deal to have the performance crown although the actual profit from the flagship GPU - although usually very expensive - is nowhere as large as say the "light" version due to R&D plus production costs of the most expensive vRAM, core, etc.

looking at the actual "figures" of market share that swings back-and-forth between ATi and nvidia - it's actually pretty small . . . 3 or 4%.

With AMD acquiring ATi . . . and possibly intel acquiring nvidia - everything changes.
:Q

interesting times

and i AM looking forward to G80 and hope it is a monster . . . it gives something for the red team to aim at or exceed with r600.

 

[josh6079]

I hope G80 kills everything else out on the market at the time of it's release and seriously contends with R600. Since anything beyond R600 is in a haze due to AMD, and with rumors of Intel buying out Nvidia, I don't think anyone will be able to predict the outcome of cards after the R600/G80 era. These two GPU's may be the last serious competitors in their class for a while and I hope that they compete well enough to drive eachother's prices down so that we can benefit.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: josh6079
I hope G80 kills everything else out on the market at the time of it's release and seriously contends with R600. Since anything beyond R600 is in a haze due to AMD, and with rumors of Intel buying out Nvidia, I don't think anyone will be able to predict the outcome of cards after the R600/G80 era. These two GPU's may be the last serious competitors in their class for a while and I hope that they compete well enough to drive eachother's prices down so that we can benefit.

I hope that G80 kills everything in November and then R600 tops G80 in February... As long as AMD is willing and able to play, NVIDIA will be there and we'll keep getting great cards at better prices. The worst thing that could happen this coming year would be for R600 to be a flop and AMD decide that they could utilize ATI's engineers more effectively elesewhere. I have pretty high hopes for AMD/ATI in the long run, and I wouldn't want to seem them get discouraged early on.

 

[josh6079]

One thing is a sigh of relief, I don't expect we'll see anymore 7***## names now that G80 is so close and those have been beaten like a dead horse.