G84 and G86 to hit in Q1 07

[josh6079]

Click

I don?t know if the weak demand for the newest and most powerful graphic cards on the market is to be blamed, but rumor has it that Nvidia is already preparing the next generation of GPUs, that will replace the current one.

Despite the extraordinary high processing capacities of 8800 GTX and GTS, enthusiastic gamers seem to have kept their money to buy a PS3 or a Wii, because demand for the two types of top video cards is lagging.

I can relate to this. Demand will escalate more and more when there is competition out and more reasonable, well-placed prices.

Last week, it emerged that Nvidia's ForceWare 96.94 driver package contained references to the G80-200, G80-400, G80-600, G80-850 and G80-875 GPUs. At this stage, it's unclear which, if any, of these chip IDs are the G86 and G84.

No details about the new chips have been made available to date, but it seems Nvidia has already finished the roadmap for them. Taiwanese manufacturers are expecting the samples from the new products sometimes next year, in January or February 2007.

Here it is unclear to me if they mean that the Taiwanese manufacturers will be given references to start production or if they will be given references to start testing, building, improving, etc.

AMD-ATI also expects to ship its R600 series of GPUs in the first quarter of 2007. The R600 will of course be Direct X 10, Shader Model 4.0 compliant.

I wonder when leaked benchmarks will start emerging.

EDIT:

Another related article: Click

Despite the fantastic performance offerings of the G80 based Nvidia cards, the units are selling poorly. The 8800 cards are industry leaders in terms of features and performance, which includes DirectX 10 support, crucial for the upcoming Windows Vista. Unfortunately, whether due to the higher price point or the low penetration of titles requiring that much performance, or perhaps even the lack of Vista's availability, the cards are simply not in demand yet and it seems that Nvidia will already have their successor lined up before they do become popular. The G84 and G86 revisions are due for release in the first quarter of 2007, which is the same time ATI's DirectX 10 compatible R600 series GPUs will be made available.

All of this is sounding more and more like the newer G80-based products are indeed going to replace the current G80's in performance. So they might decide to pull an X1800-->X1900 approach with these cards. Offer one new architecture and replace it with a refreshed one ~3 months later. In any case, it sounds like the upcoming G80 derivatives are going to be more than just budget offerings.

 

[Lonyo]

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20061120054609.html
http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20061120PD210.html

 

[Zenoth]

A low demand for the GTS would surprise me if true.

However low demand for the GTX isn't surprising, considering the hefty prices.

 

[Munky]

The gts is still out of reach for the average gamer. The high demand will be for cards in the $150-200 price range, something like a 8600gt.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I'd love a new state of the art graphics card... but $500+ is way too much for a component for me. Getting 80FPS instead of 30FPS just isn't worth hundreds of dollars to me.

 

[Zenoth]

The price comes from the technologies on and behind it, not just the result it provides. Not to mention they must try to cover the cost of the salary from their engineers pouring their knowledge on something for literally four years of their life. I completely understand why it's so expensive. However even though I understand and even agree with it to a certain extent, it's still just too much for my finances.

When money ain't a problem you never think about why it costs 'x' amount. You just go out, find one or more and buy, and voila, simple.

 

[aka1nas]

It's pretty much exactly what nvidia did with the 7800-->7900 series, the 5800-->5900 series, and the GF3-->GF3 TI series. Not really surprising, as the first flagship model like that is for milking early adopters.

 

[Keysplayr]

All can be blamed on Vista. The only OS one can run DX10 on. So not only do people have to buy a G80/R600, but also shell out for a minimum of a 400W good quality PSU, and THEN spend hundreds more on Vista to utilize DX10 when there are no freaking DX10 games out or even near out to justify all the costs to get ready for when they do. I think everyone (well most everyone) is taking the sit back, and relax and wait for all prices to come down, wait until the first Service Pack for Vista comes out, because in most of our minds, XP and DX9 hardware is cutting it just fine right about now.

EDIT: Oh yeah, lets not forget the recommended 2GB of memory to comfortably run Vista. Yet more of an expense.

 

[josh6079]

I don't want this to be another price war thread where people complain about the current G80 pricing, but instead I'd rather us reflect more on the note that the G80's may be getting replaced by the G84/86's this early.

Would Nvidia really release a better performing card than the 8800GTX by Q1 07? Could they? That would be about 3 or 4 models to compete against the R600 and its immediate SKU's for its expected arrival.

 

[Munky]

I'm sure I saw mentioned somewhere that the g84 and g86 are the midrange and low end versions of the g80. I'd be very surprised if Nv released a refresh of the g80 in Q107.

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
All can be blamed on Vista. The only OS one can run DX10 on. So not only do people have to buy a G80/R600, but also shell out for a minimum of a 400W good quality PSU, and THEN spend hundreds more on Vista to utilize DX10 when there are no freaking DX10 games out or even near out to justify all the costs to get ready for when they do. I think everyone (well most everyone) is taking the sit back, and relax and wait for all prices to come down, wait until the first Service Pack for Vista comes out, because in most of our minds, XP and DX9 hardware is cutting it just fine right about now.

EDIT: Oh yeah, lets not forget the recommended 2GB of memory to comfortably run Vista. Yet more of an expense.

True, but I would think the R600 may drive prices down alone. If there is an X2900XT for ~$450-$500, the GTS would probably decrease $50-$70 just to entice a buy. I don't think people are really concerned with using these cards as DX10 very much anyways. By the time DX10 games are popular, there will be better cards than the R600/G80.

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: munky
I'm sure I saw mentioned somewhere that the g84 and g86 are the midrange and low end versions of the g80. I'd be very surprised if Nv released a refresh of the g80 in Q107.

That's exactly what I thought, but then that article mentions how Nvidia is having poor yields and may need to exert more drastic measures to make their product more enticing (i.e. cost). Releasing a better performer than the GTX would do that and they wouldn't have to wait on ATi either.

 

[Conky]

Demand is low because the prices are simply insane.

The average price for an entire new computer system is lower than the suggested retail price of the 8800GTS... wrap your head around that. And the 8800GTX is even more expensive.

And to answer your other question, yes, they will release a better performing product by Q1 07 if they can produce it. The 8800GTX although powerful, runs hots, requires substantial power, and has other issues that need to be addressed. If they could release something that didn't require a 1,000watt $400 power supply it would definitely open up lots more potential sales not only to enthusiasts but more importantly to the big OEM's.

 

[wanderer27]

You know, I've been sitting here reading this, and I've come to the conclusion that Vista is going to be a really expensive upgrade:

2-4GB RAM - $300-$500

CPU - $$$

MB - $$$

PSU - $100-$200

Grapics Card (DX10) - $400-$600

Vista - $100-$300


Not counting CPU & MB, a lot of us are looking at least at $900-$1600+


These are really rough numbers, but right now I'm looking at close to $2000 just to upgrade from my current platform to the next gen hardware/software.

That's a bit steep, especially when my current System is doing just fine.

This one's going to wait for a bit . . . .

 

[schneiderguy]

Originally posted by: josh6079
I don?t know if the weak demand for the newest and most powerful graphic cards on the market is to be blamed, but rumor has it that Nvidia is already preparing the next generation of GPUs, that will replace the current one.

maybe that'll teach them not to price their highest end cards at $650!!!!!!!!!!! :|

$500 is the most money that high end cards should cost IMO

 

[R3MF]

i'm gonna have to wait for a 0.65u refresh and hope that the same thing happens as with the G70 generation.

i.e. the refresh GT/GTS part is made on a smaller board that will fit in my case.

 

[sodcha0s]

Well lets see... most of us on these forums have either a 7900 or a 1900 card, which cost on average in the neighborhood of $400. These cards are still plenty powerfull enough for todays games, and while having an 8800 card now would be great, it's kind of hard to justify spending another $450-$650 on another video card in less than a year. The others that are still on x800 or 6k series cards may be waiting for R600 to see what it offers, or figuring prices will drop on 8800 cards when it's released.

These things are great cards and will sell, but I think the price will have to drop quite a bit first, especially on the GTX. As for me, I'm gonna have to stick with my 1900xtx until I just can't play any new games at all.... I spent way too much money on it, and I'm not going to spend that kind of money on a single video card just to play games again.

 

[Ibiza]

There would be more demand for high end cards if there were some triple A titles out there, strange considering the run up to xmas too.

Anyone else think the PC games scene is getting boring just lately?

 

[Insidious]

edit: OOPS forgot the quote

Originally posted by: wanderer27
You know, I've been sitting here reading this, and I've come to the conclusion that Vista is going to be a really expensive upgrade:

2-4GB RAM - $300-$500

CPU - $$$

MB - $$$

PSU - $100-$200

Grapics Card (DX10) - $400-$600

Vista - $100-$300


Not counting CPU & MB, a lot of us are looking at least at $900-$1600+


These are really rough numbers, but right now I'm looking at close to $2000 just to upgrade from my current platform to the next gen hardware/software.

That's a bit steep, especially when my current System is doing just fine.

This one's going to wait for a bit . . . .

A friend let me play with the evaluation version of Vista recently.

I really don't agree that all your listed upgrades are "necessary".

I was on a 7950GT with an X2 @ 2.5GHz, 2GB RAM... it did great

Out of curiosity, I next tried it on my other computer which is another X2 @ 2.5GHz with a 6800GT and 1GB RAM. It did just fine.

I think all these super-D-dooper system requirements are exaggerated.

-Sid

afterthought: DX9 may be "necessary" to run Vista (to get their desktop goodies going), but DX10 certainly isn't

 

[schneiderguy]

Originally posted by: Ibiza

Anyone else think the PC games scene is getting boring just lately?

a lot of the "big" games that were supposed to release this year got delayed UT2k7, Crysis, Alan Wake, Spore, HL2 Ep2, etc. all come out next year

 

[Cookie Monster]

It would be VERY interested if nVIDIA did actually pull a G80 refresh in time for R600. Could be possible since nVIDIA had much time working with 80nm as with ATi did. Except we arent really sure of the successes because the 7650 series are no where to be seen, (7700mobile does exist though so transistion to 80nm was successful at some level) also add in the cancellation of the R560 core from ATi and the delay of the R570 (X1950pro) is a cause for concern.

Looks like the G84 might be the 8300 series. and the G86 is the 8600 series.
Would be sweet if the rumour was true on their launch date.

A rought specualation of the possible 8600GT

80nm
Cut down in transistor count so we are looking at from
anything to 300~500million? (sounds way to big in transistor count)
64 unified shaders (keeping in pattern with all mid range cards, hence 6800ultra 16pipelines, 6600GT 8 pipelines, 7900GTX had 24, 7600GT had 12, therefore 8800GTX has 128shaders, hence 64 for the 8600GT?)
core of 500~550mhz?
1200~1500mhz shader clock possibly
12 ROPs?
32 TMUs?
192bit (128+64) since 256bit would probably be still too expensive.
defitnately 256mb or 320mb, who knows.

Come on guys, give me some more numbers
Sounds like a sweet deal for having a DX10 mid range card if it costed around 199~ and performed around todays current high end.

 

[Munky]

the cancellation of the R560 core from ATi...

Since when was the r560 cancelled? Link?

 

[ronnn]

I think this is a reflection of how games have not kept up to computers. There are $200 cards that run most, if not all of new games fine on common resolutions, so upgrading for minor gain is less enticing.

edit: since most games seem to be designed for consoles, this may not change quickly.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Ibiza
There would be more demand for high end cards if there were some triple A titles out there, strange considering the run up to xmas too.

Anyone else think the PC games scene is getting boring just lately?

ONLY if you are an FPser.
[DM M&M; G3; NWN2 aren't a bit boring]

doubtful that there will be a full refresh of G80 before Q2

i am surprised to hear that the g80 is not selling really well

 

[Dethfrumbelo]

I think the economy overall is in decline. The housing market is down significantly from several years ago and there's less credit available.

Either that, or everyone decided to blow their $3000 wads on PS3s.