Game 6: Lakers vs. Suns

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne

Originally posted by: Stojakapimp

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: sadguy
The analysts are correct. Kobe is a 1on1 player, while Nash makes the entire team better. Circus shots < Nash's assists and less turnovers.

Nash is clearly the league's MVP, no matter who wins the series.

um, no. more like the rest of the lakers can't make shots

Is that a joke? Kwame was like 8-9 and Odom was like 8-14. That's pretty good shooting if you ask me. The only player who had a really bad game was Smush Parker.

From my perspective, Kobe did what he could to keep the Lakers in the game. Had the rest of Lakers been producing offensively, or even looking alive out there he would have gotten them involved. Instead we have Kwame Brown fumbling every single pass given to him, Smush Parker looking completely lost and dejected (i'm very angry about his pathetic performance), and the rest of the Laker team being largely ineffective except for Odom. I think we can all safely say that this loss was not Kobe's fault by any means.

IMO both teams played great, but Kobe shouldn't have felt like it was all on him and that he had to single handedly outgun PHO. Let's face it, circus shots (low percentage) are not going to fall for him at the rate they fell tonight (a good amount). He needed to slow the tempo and look for Kwame/Odom down low. They were dominating the Suns when they did that. That's really my only (small) criticism on what LA could have done better.

you really understand very little about basketball. if you watched the rest of the Laker players out there, NONE of them wanted the ball. they all handed it off to Kobe, they wanted him to take this game on his shoulders. he could not be an effective team player because his team simply was not there offensively. The Suns' double team pressure has been huge in disrupting the offensive flow that existed in games 1-3. The Lakers are struggling to find an answer for it. This game was NOT Kobe's fault, not by any means. He kept them close and almost won it for them. The loss can largely be attributed to Smush/Kwame's turnovers and emotionless play and Phil's decision to not foul Marion at the end of the game when the Lakers were up 3.

Of course it was a lot of Kobe's fault, are you blind? Nobody on PHO had close to 7 turnovers, the highest was 4 by 1 person. And IF the other players won't listen to Kobe when he tells them they need to pound the ball down low and slow the tempo, then Phil does. They didn't stick to their original gameplan, watched Kobe play HORSE and lost a game they should have destroyed the Suns in w/out Raja.

IF LA keeps playing into the Sun's game like this (fast paced and try to outgun them), they will lose miserably in PHO. Bell will ensure that Kobe doesn't shoot such a high percentage and he will need his teammates or go home in a momumental upset. I'd love to see Kobe even shoot 40% and try to play HORSE with Raja back. When's the last time a team was up 3-1 and went home? It will be the biggest choke in sports since the Yanks lost to the Red Sox in the ALCS after being up 3-0 (2004). Obligatory Link.

 

[torpid]

Lakers played like crap in the 4th and OT. Kobe can't do everything himself. Dropped passes, poor shot selection. Why do they keep letting smush parker shoot? That one made 3 doesn't make up for the 400 missed shots.

A lot of kobe's turnovers were his team's fault, because they were standing around watching him try to dunk the ball through 4 defenders. Try cutting to the basket. Except kwame. He should just stay back and go for the offensive rebound since he can't catch a pass.

Barbosa looked pretty good. Looking forward to seeing him in game 7.

I wish tim thomas would have played so consistently well in milwaukee. Back then you never knew whether the guy would show up.

By the way, they showed the elbow replay. Kobe did elbow bell. The little animation some guy posted in ATOT was after the actual elbow. It didn't look all that intentional, but he did elbow bell. Then he came close to elbowing again, but bell was already down for the count from the first one.

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: InlineFour
the MJ and jackson era didn't really have a PG. scotty pippen pretty much played the PG position. maybe mr. jackson is trying to duplicate the bulls team. :\

Thats what I was thinking as well. He can try but he will never duplicate it.

Jordan > Bryant.

When Kobe can win 6 rings with Lamar Odom, the way MJ won 6 with Pippen, they will be on the same level.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: torpid
Lakers played like crap in the 4th and OT. Kobe can't do everything himself. Dropped passes, poor shot selection. Why do they keep letting smush parker shoot? That one made 3 doesn't make up for the 400 missed shots.

A lot of kobe's turnovers were his team's fault, because they were standing around watching him try to dunk the ball through 4 defenders. Try cutting to the basket. Except kwame. He should just stay back and go for the offensive rebound since he can't catch a pass.

Barbosa looked pretty good. Looking forward to seeing him in game 7.

I wish tim thomas would have played so consistently well in milwaukee. Back then you never knew whether the guy would show up.

By the way, they showed the elbow replay. Kobe did elbow bell. The little animation some guy posted in ATOT was after the actual elbow. It didn't look all that intentional, but he did elbow bell. Then he came close to elbowing again, but bell was already down for the count from the first one.

Yeah? I must have missed that. 4 stitches off a Kobe elbow and Barb was out of the game for awhile. LA should have blown out PHO when you think about it, PHO had no bench!

TT played a helluva game. Everyone on the Suns did. And props to the Matrix for badly altering Kobe's shot at the buzzer, finally someone stepping up and challenging Kobe on those buzzer beaters.

 

[PaNsyBoy8]

What I want to know is why they kept parker int he game, he looked soo lost throughout the whole game, they shoulda had vujacic in instead, while his defence wasn't as good, at least he looked confident out there.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: PaNsyBoy8
What I want to know is why they kept parker int he game, he looked soo lost throughout the whole game, they shoulda had vujacic in instead, while his defence wasn't as good, at least he looked confident out there.

I agree. He has been bad for all but 2 seconds of the series. Phil must know something we don't. He got mauled on defense and shaq could shoot better from the perimeter than parker.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: PaNsyBoy8
What I want to know is why they kept parker int he game, he looked soo lost throughout the whole game, they shoulda had vujacic in instead, while his defence wasn't as good, at least he looked confident out there.

I agree. He has been bad for all but 2 seconds of the series. Phil must know something we don't. He got mauled on defense and shaq could shoot better from the perimeter than parker.

I think you guys are forgetting that Smush played pretty dam good in most of LA's wins. Gotta go with who gets ya there, ya know?

 

[isekii]

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: InlineFour
the MJ and jackson era didn't really have a PG. scotty pippen pretty much played the PG position. maybe mr. jackson is trying to duplicate the bulls team. :\

Thats what I was thinking as well. He can try but he will never duplicate it.

Jordan > Bryant.

When Kobe can win 6 rings with Lamar Odom, the way MJ won 6 with Pippen, they will be on the same level.

MJ had a lot of role complimentary role players around him.

 

[puffff]

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: InlineFour
the MJ and jackson era didn't really have a PG. scotty pippen pretty much played the PG position. maybe mr. jackson is trying to duplicate the bulls team. :\

Thats what I was thinking as well. He can try but he will never duplicate it.

Jordan > Bryant.

When Kobe can win 6 rings with Lamar Odom, the way MJ won 6 with Pippen, they will be on the same level.

Then Bill Russell, with 11 championship rings, is better than MJ with just 6?

And Hakeem Olajuwon (sp?) with 2 is better than Wilt who only had one?

Not saying Kobe > Jordan, but number of championship rings cant be a big indicator of level.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: PaNsyBoy8
What I want to know is why they kept parker int he game, he looked soo lost throughout the whole game, they shoulda had vujacic in instead, while his defence wasn't as good, at least he looked confident out there.

I agree. He has been bad for all but 2 seconds of the series. Phil must know something we don't. He got mauled on defense and shaq could shoot better from the perimeter than parker.

I think you guys are forgetting that Smush played pretty dam good in most of LA's wins. Gotta go with who gets ya there, ya know?

Are you referring to the regular season or playoffs above? I didn't pay close attention to him in 1-3 but 4-6 he has looked terrible through and through.

 

[PaNsyBoy8]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: PaNsyBoy8
What I want to know is why they kept parker int he game, he looked soo lost throughout the whole game, they shoulda had vujacic in instead, while his defence wasn't as good, at least he looked confident out there.

I agree. He has been bad for all but 2 seconds of the series. Phil must know something we don't. He got mauled on defense and shaq could shoot better from the perimeter than parker.

I think you guys are forgetting that Smush played pretty dam good in most of LA's wins. Gotta go with who gets ya there, ya know?

Are you referring to the regular season or playoffs above? I didn't pay close attention to him in 1-3 but 4-6 he has looked terrible through and through.

In the regular season, parker was doing pretty well, but in the last few games, he really didn't want the ball, there were a few tiems where he should have shot the ball (wide open 3) but instead, he dished it away. He was even afraid to take the ball up court, i've never seen a player so afraid of the ball in my life.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: PaNsyBoy8
What I want to know is why they kept parker int he game, he looked soo lost throughout the whole game, they shoulda had vujacic in instead, while his defence wasn't as good, at least he looked confident out there.

I agree. He has been bad for all but 2 seconds of the series. Phil must know something we don't. He got mauled on defense and shaq could shoot better from the perimeter than parker.

I think you guys are forgetting that Smush played pretty dam good in most of LA's wins. Gotta go with who gets ya there, ya know?

Are you referring to the regular season or playoffs above? I didn't pay close attention to him in 1-3 but 4-6 he has looked terrible through and through.

Playoffs. Game 1 he went for 15 and 6, an above average game for him. Smush only took 6 shots in game 2 but made 3 of em to go with 4reb, 3ass, 3stls. Game 3 he was the top scorer with 18 and shot very well. They won 2 of those games so you never know with him. Games 4-6 he has played horrid though.

 

[puffff]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne

Originally posted by: Stojakapimp

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: sadguy
The analysts are correct. Kobe is a 1on1 player, while Nash makes the entire team better. Circus shots < Nash's assists and less turnovers.

Nash is clearly the league's MVP, no matter who wins the series.

um, no. more like the rest of the lakers can't make shots

Is that a joke? Kwame was like 8-9 and Odom was like 8-14. That's pretty good shooting if you ask me. The only player who had a really bad game was Smush Parker.

From my perspective, Kobe did what he could to keep the Lakers in the game. Had the rest of Lakers been producing offensively, or even looking alive out there he would have gotten them involved. Instead we have Kwame Brown fumbling every single pass given to him, Smush Parker looking completely lost and dejected (i'm very angry about his pathetic performance), and the rest of the Laker team being largely ineffective except for Odom. I think we can all safely say that this loss was not Kobe's fault by any means.

IMO both teams played great, but Kobe shouldn't have felt like it was all on him and that he had to single handedly outgun PHO. Let's face it, circus shots (low percentage) are not going to fall for him at the rate they fell tonight (a good amount). He needed to slow the tempo and look for Kwame/Odom down low. They were dominating the Suns when they did that. That's really my only (small) criticism on what LA could have done better.

you really understand very little about basketball. if you watched the rest of the Laker players out there, NONE of them wanted the ball. they all handed it off to Kobe, they wanted him to take this game on his shoulders. he could not be an effective team player because his team simply was not there offensively. The Suns' double team pressure has been huge in disrupting the offensive flow that existed in games 1-3. The Lakers are struggling to find an answer for it. This game was NOT Kobe's fault, not by any means. He kept them close and almost won it for them. The loss can largely be attributed to Smush/Kwame's turnovers and emotionless play and Phil's decision to not foul Marion at the end of the game when the Lakers were up 3.

I don't think SP33Demon watched the game. Maybe it started past his bedtime. You can't pin this loss on Kobe scoring 50 pts. In the later parts of the game, the other lakers just werent being effective. Kwame fumbled passes. A couple guys had foul trouble. On screen and rolls, Parker kept getting matched up against bigger players who took him into the post. Despite all this, Kobe was able to put the team in a position to win it at the end of regulation.

Did you see Kwame run right past Thomas right before Thomas hit that three? When you close out on a jump shooter, you never run past the guy. They teach you that in any organized basketball camp. Had he just gotten there, gotten his arms up, Thomas wouldnt have simply pump faked and gotten such an open look. :disgust:

 

[greys2k]

k0b3 n33ds h3lp in th3 clutch

$mu$h w@s MIA

 

[torpid]

I can't believe grey is not banned yet. There should be a rule against that crap.

I don't see how the lakers can pull it out in 7. Even with Odom playing well they don't have enough. Walton needs to play a full 4 quarters or they need to do some crafty subbing. Brown out, Kareem in! Suit up!

 

[PaNsyBoy8]

i didn't see walton being that effective in game 6, he was taking shots that he really shouldn't have, it was like, for a sec, he wanted to be kobe.

i really think he's a great player and sets up great shots for his teammates, but there were shots that he attempted that jsut made me crindge

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

they need to go back to team basketball, it's the only time they've had a chance against the Suns. make the Suns guard more players than just Kobe Bryant and good looks will open up for the rest of the team.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
they need to go back to team basketball, it's the only time they've had a chance against the Suns. make the Suns guard more players than just Kobe Bryant and good looks will open up for the rest of the team.

they've been trying that. people are missing shots or just standing around. team basketball does not mean passing around the 3 point line for 23 seconds then having kobe take an impossible jump shot. i think they might just be running out of energy late.

walton is not great but he is a good junk player, always scrappy and around in the early quarters and then fades into nothing by the 4th. seems that way anyway.

 

[puffff]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
they need to go back to team basketball, it's the only time they've had a chance against the Suns. make the Suns guard more players than just Kobe Bryant and good looks will open up for the rest of the team.

they've been trying that. people are missing shots or just standing around. team basketball does not mean passing around the 3 point line for 23 seconds then having kobe take an impossible jump shot. i think they might just be running out of energy late.

walton is not great but he is a good junk player, always scrappy and around in the early quarters and then fades into nothing by the 4th. seems that way anyway.

sign of a untested team, getting nervous in the playoffs. lakers have their two stars in kobe and odom. walton plays well enough that he wont be a weak link. but man, the C and PG positions need major upgrades. if smush played with confidence, you could just chalk up his performance to a cold streak, but the guy looked scared out there. kwame... well, he cant catch a pass. ideally he's coming off the bench for 15-20 minutes a game in spot duty.

it's a promising young team though. they got some players that could blossom in a couple years. as a lifelong laker fan, i'm looking forward to next year.

 

[PaNsyBoy8]

Originally posted by: puffff

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
they need to go back to team basketball, it's the only time they've had a chance against the Suns. make the Suns guard more players than just Kobe Bryant and good looks will open up for the rest of the team.

they've been trying that. people are missing shots or just standing around. team basketball does not mean passing around the 3 point line for 23 seconds then having kobe take an impossible jump shot. i think they might just be running out of energy late.

walton is not great but he is a good junk player, always scrappy and around in the early quarters and then fades into nothing by the 4th. seems that way anyway.

sign of a untested team, getting nervous in the playoffs. lakers have their two stars in kobe and odom. walton plays well enough that he wont be a weak link. but man, the C and PG positions need major upgrades. if smush played with confidence, you could just chalk up his performance to a cold streak, but the guy looked scared out there. kwame... well, he cant catch a pass. ideally he's coming off the bench for 15-20 minutes a game in spot duty.

it's a promising young team though. they got some players that could blossom in a couple years. as a lifelong laker fan, i'm looking forward to next year.

I couldn't agree more. I wonder if things would be different if chris mimh was in the lineup. he was playing pretty solid till he was injured.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: puffff

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne

Originally posted by: Stojakapimp

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: sadguy
The analysts are correct. Kobe is a 1on1 player, while Nash makes the entire team better. Circus shots < Nash's assists and less turnovers.

Nash is clearly the league's MVP, no matter who wins the series.

um, no. more like the rest of the lakers can't make shots

Is that a joke? Kwame was like 8-9 and Odom was like 8-14. That's pretty good shooting if you ask me. The only player who had a really bad game was Smush Parker.

From my perspective, Kobe did what he could to keep the Lakers in the game. Had the rest of Lakers been producing offensively, or even looking alive out there he would have gotten them involved. Instead we have Kwame Brown fumbling every single pass given to him, Smush Parker looking completely lost and dejected (i'm very angry about his pathetic performance), and the rest of the Laker team being largely ineffective except for Odom. I think we can all safely say that this loss was not Kobe's fault by any means.

IMO both teams played great, but Kobe shouldn't have felt like it was all on him and that he had to single handedly outgun PHO. Let's face it, circus shots (low percentage) are not going to fall for him at the rate they fell tonight (a good amount). He needed to slow the tempo and look for Kwame/Odom down low. They were dominating the Suns when they did that. That's really my only (small) criticism on what LA could have done better.

you really understand very little about basketball. if you watched the rest of the Laker players out there, NONE of them wanted the ball. they all handed it off to Kobe, they wanted him to take this game on his shoulders. he could not be an effective team player because his team simply was not there offensively. The Suns' double team pressure has been huge in disrupting the offensive flow that existed in games 1-3. The Lakers are struggling to find an answer for it. This game was NOT Kobe's fault, not by any means. He kept them close and almost won it for them. The loss can largely be attributed to Smush/Kwame's turnovers and emotionless play and Phil's decision to not foul Marion at the end of the game when the Lakers were up 3.

I don't think SP33Demon watched the game. Maybe it started past his bedtime. You can't pin this loss on Kobe scoring 50 pts. In the later parts of the game, the other lakers just werent being effective. Kwame fumbled passes. A couple guys had foul trouble. On screen and rolls, Parker kept getting matched up against bigger players who took him into the post. Despite all this, Kobe was able to put the team in a position to win it at the end of regulation.

Did you see Kwame run right past Thomas right before Thomas hit that three? When you close out on a jump shooter, you never run past the guy. They teach you that in any organized basketball camp. Had he just gotten there, gotten his arms up, Thomas wouldnt have simply pump faked and gotten such an open look. :disgust:

You're pretty dense if you think Kwame isn't going to jump at a desperate 3 with seconds left in the game. Blaming a guy who only had TWO turnovers (Kobe had SEVEN) and shot 8-9 from the field is absurd. Do you know how stupid you look by blaming Kwame?

Kobe and Phil are to blame for this loss. They could have stuck with Odom's complete dominance on the inside but chose to chuck and gun more shots than Rambo. One man cannot outgun a run and gun team for 5 quarters, it didn't work in the 8 times they lost before the playoffs and it won't work now. Did you even see the post game analysis? All the announcers (Charles, Kenny, etc) all said it was stupid of LA to try and outgun PHO and not slow the tempo and pound the ball down low (where they have a DISTINCT advantage. You should listen to some of the guys who have actually played the game, instead of thinking Kobe wasn't part of the problem.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: puffff
sign of a untested team, getting nervous in the playoffs. lakers have their two stars in kobe and odom. walton plays well enough that he wont be a weak link. but man, the C and PG positions need major upgrades. if smush played with confidence, you could just chalk up his performance to a cold streak, but the guy looked scared out there. kwame... well, he cant catch a pass. ideally he's coming off the bench for 15-20 minutes a game in spot duty.

it's a promising young team though. they got some players that could blossom in a couple years. as a lifelong laker fan, i'm looking forward to next year.

Yeah, the lakers have a bright future if they play their cards right. Just wish they would stop teasing us by playing at a high level some of the time but then losing it. Consistently doing that is why I no longer root for the kings, ever.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: torpid
I can't believe grey is not banned yet. There should be a rule against that crap.

I don't see how the lakers can pull it out in 7. Even with Odom playing well they don't have enough. Walton needs to play a full 4 quarters or they need to do some crafty subbing. Brown out, Kareem in! Suit up!

Why can't LA win if they slow down the pace? They have just as much as a chance as the Suns do, it all depends if the Suns can trick Kobe into chucking and playing run n gun, or if LA uses their brain and utilizes their size superiority down low. That will dictate who wins the game.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
they need to go back to team basketball, it's the only time they've had a chance against the Suns. make the Suns guard more players than just Kobe Bryant and good looks will open up for the rest of the team.

they've been trying that. people are missing shots or just standing around. team basketball does not mean passing around the 3 point line for 23 seconds then having kobe take an impossible jump shot. i think they might just be running out of energy late.

walton is not great but he is a good junk player, always scrappy and around in the early quarters and then fades into nothing by the 4th. seems that way anyway.

Lamar Odom has been absolutely dominant. Hell, he has 3 inches and 25 lbs on Marion. They have to double him almost every time which opens up tons of options if he doesn't just flat out score through the double or dish to Kwame for an easy layup/jam. I would take my chances on Odom and Kwame's size advantage over Kobe taking low percentage circus shots any day of the week.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: torpid
I can't believe grey is not banned yet. There should be a rule against that crap.

I don't see how the lakers can pull it out in 7. Even with Odom playing well they don't have enough. Walton needs to play a full 4 quarters or they need to do some crafty subbing. Brown out, Kareem in! Suit up!

Why can't LA win if they slow down the pace? They have just as much as a chance as the Suns do, it all depends if the Suns can trick Kobe into chucking and playing run n gun, or if LA uses their brain and utilizes their size superiority down low. That will dictate who wins the game.

I just think that the home court and the fact that the lakers seem to be in their own head are going to be tough to overcome. Plus, I think the suns are starting to fire on all clyinders finally. Even marion was looking decent.

The funny thing is, the suns looked pretty good in the post against smush parker.