Game Day Thread: Iowa Caucuses

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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,008
8,042
136
If Iowa is not an anomaly and turnout continues at this pace during the primary, then we're in trouble in November.

Primary does not equal General. When it comes time to oppose Trump, there will be plenty of excitement.
And... what turnout? It's a freaking caucus. Isn't that just a set list of invited delegates?
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
136
Primary does not equal General. When it comes time to oppose Trump, there will be plenty of excitement.

Except it did, in 2008, 2016, and 2018. In all three cases, primary turnout was a predictor of general election turnout. Maybe this time will be different. I certainly hope so.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,483
8,344
126
I'm going to plant hope that there's an unknown number of "anyone but Trump" Democrats/independents that aren't showing up for caucuses and will in November. They don't care who is the democrat choice and will pull the lever for anyone but Trump. But at this point I have no idea. I wasn't expecting the Bernie surge. But I'm still not sure if I fully believe it.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,229
10,878
136
I'm going to plant hope that there's an unknown number of "anyone but Trump" Democrats/independents that aren't showing up for caucuses and will in November. They don't care who is the democrat choice and will pull the lever for anyone but Trump. But at this point I have no idea. I wasn't expecting the Bernie surge. But I'm still not sure if I fully believe it.
Unfortunately, there this large group of my guy or will wreck your guys chances of winning people out there. You know who you are.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,008
8,042
136
Except it did, in 2008, 2016, and 2018. In all three cases, primary turnout was a predictor of general election turnout. Maybe this time will be different. I certainly hope so.

But the General is an actual election. Primary is a mere party function, and it's a mere caucus in Iowa...
Check back after Super Tuesday.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,993
13,519
136
No, the actual definition of the word Socialism would relate to Government taking over and directly owning / controlling all business in a nation. People would still own private property, but there would be no private business. Republicans have bastardized the term so badly... that modern use of it relates to even having a government at all. Then the morons go further still and just call everyone Communists.

Bernie Sanders and company have taking to calling for "Democratic-Socialism" which is more or less what you describe. But the meaning of the word is shattered.

Sure, something like that in its pure form,


however when your rightwingers point to Scandinavia and Europe and claim Socialism ... its really not. Socialized healthcare and a public sector for the people and a capatalistic economic policy to fund it. Quite brilliantly taking the best from "both sides".
 
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alcoholbob

Diamond Member
May 24, 2005
6,308
355
126
Sure, something like that in its pure form,


however when your rightwingers point to Scandinavia and Europe and claim Socialism ... its really not. Socialized healthcare and a public sector for the people and a capatalistic economic policy to fund it. Quite brilliantly taking the best from "both sides".

It's not but in the Overton Window of American politics, that's where the terms of debate are thanks to effective Republican messaging.
 
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Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
126
What would you call British colonialism if not an expansion of capitalism? East India company ring a bell?

What specifically are you referring to?

What part of slavery can you separate from capitalism?

Capitalism is the free exchange of goods. Slavery is in essence a forceful seizure. That's pretty easily separated. Communism, by far, has more in common with slavery than capitalism.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,806
126
What specifically are you referring to?



Capitalism is the free exchange of goods. Slavery is in essence a forceful seizure. That's pretty easily separated.

Way oversimplified. From Wikipedia - "Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. "

Slaves were Private Property, not Forceful Seizure. At least that's how the Slave Owners justified it. It took Social Movements, not Economics, to change that.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,221
4,452
136
Primary does not equal General. When it comes time to oppose Trump, there will be plenty of excitement.
And... what turnout? It's a freaking caucus. Isn't that just a set list of invited delegates?

One of the things about the Democratic primary is that there is what 6 (or is it 7) candidates still on the field? Even if only 3 of them that has any real shot, It is still hard to get excited over such a election. I love the debates, and even for me these got downright tedious. Most of the candidates agree on most of the issues, and the differences between them are mostly a matter of degrees. We are just spread too thin. Not to mention that almost none of the 'independents' vote in a primary. I don't think that it is a very good indicator to how the general will go.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,705
507
126
I guess Huffpost is a conservative rag that's unreliable now....

Shadow, a Democratic tech firm, created the app that was supposed to deliver quicker caucus results.

Gerard Niemira, a veteran of Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign, is the head of Shadow. He previously served as chief technology officer and chief operating officer of Acronym, according to his LinkedIn page. In 2019, David Plouffe, one of the chief architects of President Barack Obama’s wins, joined the board of advisers for Acronym.
Acronym spokesman Kyle Tharp put out a statement distancing the group from Shadow, saying that Acronym is merely an investor in the for-profit company.

A second source that confirms the HuffPo information
During the 2016 presidential election, Niemira served as the Senior Product Manager and the Director of Product for Hillary Clinton’s campaign.


then Lee Fang has more detail....
New Details Show How Deeply Iowa Caucus App Developer Was Embedded in Democratic Establishment


Shadow has also been retained for digital services by Buttigieg’s campaign, which paid the company $42,500 for software-related services last July, and by Joe Biden’s campaign, which paid Shadow $1,225 for text messaging services, last July as well.

Shadow was launched by former staffers to Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign, including Niemira, Krista Davis, Ahna Rao, and James Hickey, according to professional biographies listed on LinkedIn. Shadow did not respond to a request for comment.


Nothing to see here though... after all it was just a technical glitch that just happened to occur in the first contest in the primary of arguably the most important election in at least 50 years.

If nothing else this snafu just shows us that glitchy perhaps insecure software doesn't really have place in our elections now perhaps not ever....



________________________
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,425
136
You won't answer the question? Good heavens it wasn't even a challenge, just a request for clarification.

A proper discussion requires an agreement and understanding of basic facts. You don't possess such basic knowledge or you are being purposely obtuse. Either way I don't have the patience to interact with you nor the vested interest to want to.
 

DarthKyrie

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2016
1,545
1,305
146
I guess Huffpost is a conservative rag that's unreliable now....

Shadow, a Democratic tech firm, created the app that was supposed to deliver quicker caucus results.



A second source that confirms the HuffPo information



then Lee Fang has more detail....
New Details Show How Deeply Iowa Caucus App Developer Was Embedded in Democratic Establishment





Nothing to see here though... after all it was just a technical glitch that just happened to occur in the first contest in the primary of arguably the most important election in at least 50 years.

If nothing else this snafu just shows us that glitchy perhaps insecure software doesn't really have place in our elections now perhaps not ever....



________________________

The 3 monkeys picture popped into my head.
 
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cirrrocco

Golden Member
Sep 7, 2004
1,952
78
91
I will say this, the DNC is determined to not let Sanders win. They would rather have another 4 years of Trump.

Completely agree. They would rather shill for corporate war mongering democrats than anti war, fight for the middle class, anti big tech democrats. You can see the war mongers right here on this board
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,425
136
I will say this, the DNC is determined to not let Sanders win. They would rather have another 4 years of Trump.

Conspiracy theory? I wonder who else would enjoy such a thing.

You would think after 2016 such narratives would be obvious for what they are but I guess not.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
Conspiracy theory? I wonder who else would enjoy such a thing.

You would think after 2016 such narratives would be obvious for what they are but I guess not.

You already said you'd vote for Trump over Sanders so it sounds like you're on board anyway.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,352
126
You are basing your arguments off Baby Boomer politics. Millenials are now the biggest voting block in America. They don't hate the word "socialist" like the Boomers do, instead they hate the word establishment. As I stated in another thread, I think its highly unlikely that Trump beats any candidate, but the idea that Sanders can't win is ridiculous. There is no denying the country is going through a significant, populist wave right now, and the Dems won't fare as well if they continue to fight it.

Additionally, I think it is short sighted of the Dems to focus exclusively on removing Trump from office. If we just return to business as usual, and fail to address the issues that have been plaguing the working class for the last several decades and continue to build, we very well could end up with Trump 2.0 in the near future, and its possible that this one will come with a functional brain.
I would go farther in Sanders defense: What Perknose advocates are practical platitudes for winning in a country where true Democracy is dead and will stay dead until the real meaning of Socialism is understood to mean taking back control of the country to address the needs of average people. How like an elitist Socialist Jew to lead in a cause like that how how willing we all are to crucify him before suggests on earth as in heaven. We walk the land of the spidery dead whose webs could our vision and plug up our ears. For the dead there is only awakening via spiritual revolution. In this land of the blind, let the one eyed man be king. Socialism is the opposite of narcissism.
 

DarthKyrie

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2016
1,545
1,305
146
Do you think that the corporate elite, that are the DNC bigwigs, want their taxes to go up to what the regular people in this country pay? Not much of a conspiracy theory when it comes to the elite and their money.
 
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