Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

[GagHalfrunt]

I really don't think so. I think he would definitely go along willingly with a plan to assassinate his tormentor.

Are you stoned? Whether Dontos would go along with the plot is irrelevant. 100% completely irrelevant. The question is why would the person behind the plot involve Dontos?

Do you even comprehend the risk the killer took? If caught not only would the killer be executed, their heirs would likely be killed and their house stricken from the land. House X would cease to exist and so would anyone who bore the name. So I challenge you to come up with a reason who Dontos would be let in on the plan. Even if he agreed with the agenda it's still one more failure point and a drunken failure point at that. What is the upside to the PLOTTER of letting Dontos in on the details of the plan when his cooperation could be gotten anyway? Same role for Dontos, less risk to the person pulling the strings. WHY INCLUDE DONTOS? Three simple words and until you or anyone else can come up with a remotely plausible reason why the mastermind would include Dontos when there was no reason to it's just plain stupid to believe it.

 

[Ichinisan]

Are you stoned? Whether Dontos would go along with the plot is irrelevant. 100% completely irrelevant. The question is why would the person behind the plot involve Dontos?

Do you even comprehend the risk the killer took? If caught not only would the killer be executed, their heirs would likely be killed and their house stricken from the land. House X would cease to exist and so would anyone who bore the name. So I challenge you to come up with a reason who Dontos would be let in on the plan. Even if he agreed with the agenda it's still one more failure point and a drunken failure point at that. What is the upside to the PLOTTER of letting Dontos in on the details of the plan when his cooperation could be gotten anyway? Same role for Dontos, less risk to the person pulling the strings. WHY INCLUDE DONTOS? Three simple words and until you or anyone else can come up with a remotely plausible reason why the mastermind would include Dontos when there was no reason to it's just plain stupid to believe it.

Haven't read the rest of your post, but he would have nothing to lose (family honor, etc) and would not turn against the other plotters. He's also in close proximity to the king and could be very useful.

We know that he fucked up one time when he was drunk during a tournament. Now Joffrey tortures him and probably keeps him perpetually drunk (or, he at least needs to act that way) to fulfill his role as "the fool."

 

[zinfamous]

so you're still making the leap to whatever criminal mastermind orchestrated the murder placing their life and complete trust in a drunk. No matter what Dontos was before, he's a fuck-up NOW. So try to think this through, you got somebody with 100 balls in the air plotting to kill a king in broad daylight in front of witnesses and that person puts not only the success of the plan, but their own life and the safety of their house and heirs, in the hands of Ser Dontos. Why? What's the upside of letting Dontos in on the details? He could EASILY have been convinced to deliver the necklace to Sansa. He could easily have been convinced to stick close to Sansa and see to her safety, he pretty much self-appointed himself as her protector anyway. Dontos's entire role did not require knowledge of the plan. He could have and/or would have done those things at a mere suggestion. So why let a person who can't be trusted in on the details when there is absolutely no upside to do it while there would potentially be 1000 reasons why it could come back to bite the mastermind on the ass? Until you can figure out a benefit to having Dontos in on the plans the idea that he was a co-conspirator is pure nonsense. So what's the upside?

Dontos, stay close to Sansa, she counts on you to protect her...
or
Dontos, we're killing Joffrey, stay close to Sansa

Not too difficult to figure out which way the mastermind would go.

I'm leaning towards Dontos being more familiar to the other characters in the story than he is to us, the audience.

Again, call it cheap if you want, but I think it's pretty clear that there is more there than has been explicitly shown. I'm simply suggesting that you're putting more into the intentions of these characters based on things that are otherwise not revealed yet.

Call it bad writing, but all sorts of plots hinge on withholding important information from the audience.

 

[KentState]

I'm leaning towards Dontos being more familiar to the other characters in the story than he is to us, the audience.

Again, call it cheap if you want, but I think it's pretty clear that there is more there than has been explicitly shown. I'm simply suggesting that you're putting more into the intentions of these characters based on things that are otherwise not revealed yet.

Call it bad writing, but all sorts of plots hinge on withholding important information from the audience.

In general, a lot of the characters are really under developed in the TV show so it's hard to form any speculative opinion based on what you see. Unless I'm mistaken, Dontos was in the scene where Sansa was in the garden praying or walking. Do we really think that he would have come up with a plan to sneak Sansa out on his own?

 

[Ichinisan]

In general, a lot of the characters are really under developed in the TV show so it's hard to form any speculative opinion based on what you see. Unless I'm mistaken, Dontos was in the scene where Sansa was in the garden praying or walking. Do we really think that he would have come up with a plan to sneak Sansa out on his own?

I don't think anyone suggested that he did anything "on his own."

 

[KentState]

I don't think anyone suggested that he did anything "on his own."

Poster above you made the statement that Dontos would not have been let in on the murder plot. I was suggesting that a lot is left out so it's hard to say if that's the case or not. The interactions between him and Sansa are pretty interest, but the show barely touches on them.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

who said serio is still alive, because we didn't see him killed? what the heck is that? his opponent in mortal combat appears later in good health. what more evidence is needed?

 

[techs]

With Joffrey dead Dontos is nobodys fool.

 

[Ichinisan]

who said serio is still alive, because we didn't see him killed? what the heck is that? his opponent in mortal combat appears later in good health. what more evidence is needed?

He's giving Arya advice about not accepting defeat ("Not today."), at the same time while he *seems* to be contradicting his own advice by accepting defeat. We don't actually see him die and I think that says everything we need to know.

 

[BladeVenom]

With Joffrey dead Dontos is nobodys fool.

Just because Joffrey's dead, you think he's going to give up drinking, start working out, and be a knight again?

 

[Ichinisan]

Just because Joffrey's dead, you think he's going to give up drinking, start working out, and be a knight again?

As far as I know, he screwed up once by being drunk during a tournament. After that, Joffrey forced him to keep drinking and play the role of fool.

I'm sure he would eventually develop a higher tolerance to alcohol. He could even pretend to be more impaired than he really is so they wouldn't give him as much.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

who said serio is still alive, because we didn't see him killed? what the heck is that? his opponent in mortal combat appears later in good health. what more evidence is needed?

just living in denial, likely to make up for the shock of all their other beloved characters getting killed

they'll convince themselves that Syrio was actually a faceless man like Jaqen (maybe even the same character...) and that he took the guise of Meryn Trant after dispatching him after Arya fled

they just would rather not deal with the reality or gravity of the situation, whereas GRRM full well knows that not having closure on a death like that will drive some people nuts and will help to keep fueling fires of speculation and intrigue

 

[techs]

Just because Joffrey's dead, you think he's going to give up drinking, start working out, and be a knight again?

I was just making a play on words.

 

[crownjules]

Are you stoned? Whether Dontos would go along with the plot is irrelevant. 100% completely irrelevant. The question is why would the person behind the plot involve Dontos?

Because he's a patsy who the schemers can easily separate themselves from. If he were implicated and tortured for information, it'd be fairly easy for people of higher station to discredit the King's fool and a drunk.

 

[zinfamous]

In general, a lot of the characters are really under developed in the TV show so it's hard to form any speculative opinion based on what you see. Unless I'm mistaken, Dontos was in the scene where Sansa was in the garden praying or walking. Do we really think that he would have come up with a plan to sneak Sansa out on his own?

no, I never suggested that; only that ignoring the brief hints about his past isn't the best way to determine who he truly is.

I certainly don't think he acted alone.

 

[zinfamous]

With Joffrey dead Dontos is nobodys fool.

 

[zinfamous]

who said serio is still alive, because we didn't see him killed? what the heck is that? his opponent in mortal combat appears later in good health. what more evidence is needed?

Earlier, a theory was proposed that Serio = Dagon Hegur...or whoever that faceless assassin dude is. ...the guy that can change faces.

Well, we know these people exist, so that could have been Serio escaping with a new face. Or, they aren't the same person, but Serio is also a faceless--though Dagon did reflect on the difference between dancing instructors and people like himself, when he parted from Arya.

Either way, they are both from Bravos. So there is that?

as to the bolded--just a common trope in story telling. Never believe someone is dead until the audience is shown it explicitly; and especially in a series that makes a habit of showing explicit deaths.

 

[crownjules]

who said serio is still alive, because we didn't see him killed? what the heck is that? his opponent in mortal combat appears later in good health. what more evidence is needed?

Do you think a Kingsguard knight would report that he was bested by a teacher wielding a wooden sword? It is not unreasonable to think that Serio was able to ring their bells or otherwise temporarily overcome them with his sword allowing him to escape. And then in their pride (and fear), the knights falsely report he's dead and none know any better as he's disappeared anyway.

I also don't think Serio = Jacqen H'ghar. Their styles aren't the same. Serio is a sword fighter while Jacqen is an assassin.

 

[Jaskalas]

who said serio is still alive, because we didn't see him killed? what the heck is that? his opponent in mortal combat appears later in good health. what more evidence is needed?

We already saw him throw them to the floor once. A second time and make a run for it. Syrio... :wub:

 

[dennilfloss]

Why didn't the dance master pick up the steel sword of the first guy he disabled but instead kept fighting with a wooden sword? Hardly goes with telling the red god "not today", unless that also includes "not my opponents today either".

 

[sactoking]

Why didn't the dance master pick up the steel sword of the first guy he disabled but instead kept fighting with a wooden sword? Hardly goes with telling the red god "not today", unless that also includes "not my opponents today either".

My guess would be that the water dancer fighting style relied on small, light, pointed swords and that the Westeros large, heavy, slashing swords were of no use to them. Syrio may have felt that he was better served using a wooden sword of the style he preferred than a metal one that was completely foreign to him.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

this week on a very special episode of game of thrones, we look at the issues of bullying, violence and sexual abuse. this is an episode your family can't afford to miss!

 

[techs]

Dress warm. Winter is coming.

 

[irishScott]

Let it Go - Game of Thrones Edition Seriously, it's kinda awesome. Massive spoilers if you aren't up to date though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6KLzjXAV3s

 

[Kev]

Nothing hotter than a brother raping his sister next to the corpse of their incest child.