Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

[pauldun170]

The sort-of-rape scene seemed superfluous, but yeah, par for the course for this show. But at the same time it felt out-of-place in a way, and I thought it didn't add anything to the show this time around. That said, I was surprised to hear that there was a bit of a kerfuffle about it.

In contrast I felt the final Khaleesi scene was awesome.

The rape scene is actually works for Cersei and Jaimes character development.

The show has already established knights as rapists and murderers. The Hound has done a good job of stating this throughout, Jaime is a killer and the only thing that separated him from the rest of them had been his devotion to his sister (will not take another woman or wife, turning down Casterly Rock etc etc to be close to her).
Attempted Murder of Brandon Stark, killing his cousin to escape Rob. His attack on Ned Stark
He is a complex character, his attitude toward Briene and backstory (who he earned the Kingslayer).

Cersei being raped by her brother in front of her dead son moments after her Father's speech to Tommen where he both dismisses her and insults her dead son.
This episode really set the stage for where Cersei goes as a character.

 

[irishScott]

I think his problem is they are showing too much of her. She's in every episode, they could have easily cut her 2nd episode scenes.

Right, because no one would get to episode 3 and say "wait, how did they get here?".

 

[CZroe]

you have some rewatching to do

http://youtu.be/ihIaJnqxNYc

Tywin was Hand of the King to King Areys II (the "Mad King"). If Tywin didn't directly betray the king back then, and didn't just find one of many ways to get rid of Tyrion, what on earth makes you think he'd be in a scheme to assassinate his grandson?

Joffrey might have been an evil little shit who caused a good deal of trouble, but he definitely wasn't as bad as Areys Targaryen; killing him would leave Tywin with only one really good trump card - Tommen. And even though Tommen is shaping up to be a much better candidate than Joffrey, its not an ideal situation when kings are dropping like flies...

What's with all this "Lannister would never turn against family!" crap I keep hearing you guys talk about?

Tywin hates Tyrion and already tried to have him killed once by sending him to the front lines with the Hill folk. Cersei hates Tyrion and already tried to have him killed at the Battle of Blackwater. Cersei has not only poisoned people in the past (Jon Aryn), but she was ready to poison her own son, Tommen, in The Battle of Blackwater. Jamie killed a Lannister when he was Rob's prisoner. It's very clear that protecting individual family members from death is not a particularly reliable Lannister attribute.

Now: Tywin told Cersei that they needed to fix the "problem" of not having control of Joffery. Now they have fixed it and they both got want they want (power and the downfall of Tyrion). Littlefinger got wind of it with his NSA spy superpowers (same as usual) and capitalized on it to get Sansa and scare her into staying with him. He put the necklace in the boat to be found with Ser Dantos though we don't yet know the significance of that. Due to her search for fancy necklaces and recent familiarization with the jewelery available in King's Landing, Lady Tyrell recognized the necklace design or noticed it was a fake or something and stole a stone to have it checked, I imagine. I hesitate to assume she is involved because that would be way too many players.

I still think it was Tywin and Cersei. If you think it's a simple as "Littlefinger did it!" then you haven't been paying attention. Why would they reveal the truth so soon after carefully setting up so many suspects?

He could as that is often done with dwarves at birth as Tyrion said but Tywin kept him alive because he is a lannister with his speech he does and why picking him as killing joffrey would make no sense really.

Ugh. It's like we aren't even watching the same show.

 

[smackababy]

The rape scene is actually works for Cersei and Jaimes character development.

The show has already established knights as rapists and murderers. The Hound has done a good job of stating this throughout, Jaime is a killer and the only thing that separated him from the rest of them had been his devotion to his sister (will not take another woman or wife, turning down Casterly Rock etc etc to be close to her).
Attempted Murder of Brandon Stark, killing his cousin to escape Rob. His attack on Ned Stark
He is a complex character, his attitude toward Briene and backstory (who he earned the Kingslayer).

Cersei being raped by her brother in front of her dead son moments after her Father's speech to Tommen where he both dismisses her and insults her dead son.
This episode really set the stage for where Cersei goes as a character.

This. I think Jaime's actions were more to set up Cersei's fall from grace, so to speak. Her father, who has already shown nothing but contempt for her incompetence, is completely dismissing her (and probably upset she publicly blamed Tyrion, thus hurting the family). Jaime, who gave up a lot to be with her, showed her power over him was no more, instead he has the power over her now. Her telling him "you were too late" was basically letting him know she was banging someone else, something he would never do.

 

[pauldun170]

....

 

[smackababy]

What's with all this "Lannister would never turn against family!" crap I keep hearing you guys talk about?

Tywin hates Tyrion and already tried to have him killed once by sending him to the front lines with the Hill folk. Cersei hates Tyrion and already tried to have him killed at the Battle of Blackwater. Cersei has not only poisoned people in the past (Jon Aryn), but she was ready to poison her own son, Tommen, in The Battle of Blackwater. Jamie killed a Lannister when he was Rob's prisoner. It's very clear that protecting individual family members from death is not a particularly reliable Lannister attribute.

Tywin would never kill Tyrion in a way that hurt the family name (murder, letting him be captured, treason...). He might despite Tyrion, but he understands that Tyrion's fate could easily weaken the Lannister name. Cersei is simply a moron. She cares nothing past her own narrow ambitions and believes she is smarter than she really is. Tywin would never do anything that would hurt his family intentionally.

 

[KeithTalent]

I still think it was Tyin and Cersei. If you think it's a simple as "Littlefinger did it!" then you haven't been paying attention. Why would they reveal the truth so soon after carefully setting up so many suspects?


Ugh. It's like we aren't even watching the same show.

What?? No freaking way Cersei did it; it's been hammered home in so many episodes how her one redeeming quality is how much she loves her children. Her being involved would completely throw all of that out the window.

If that's who you think did it, then yes, I think we are watching different shows.

KT

 

[CZroe]

What?? No freaking way Cersei did it; it's been hammered home in so many episodes how her one redeeming quality is how much she loves her children. Her being involved would completely throw all of that out the window.

If that's who you think did it, then yes, I think we are watching different shows.

KT

Joffery is irredeemable and she finally realized it and that something had to be done about it when Tywin confronted her. The only reason I might doubt it is because she seemed genuinely happy during the wedding and even said so.

But he couldn't kill Tyrion at birth.

No matter: he already tried at least once when he sent him into battle with the Hill Tribes.

But Joffrey is "a Baratheon" in name. Tywin will do anything for a Lannister, not a Baratheon. Further, consider what it means to actually admit that Joffrey is/was a pure Lannister. that would never happen.

Tyrion's whore wife was a Lannister by name and what did Tywin do to her, again?

 

[techs]

I take it you haven't read the books?

Why would someone who read the books be in this thread? This thread is 95 percent speculation on what will occur and reasons for what happened that we will eventually find out in the coming episodes.

by posting what you did you are hinting you read the books and his post is wrong. That is a spoiler and you cannot post spoilers in this thread. Please don't do it anymore. Thanks.

 

[techs]

What?? No freaking way Cersei did it; it's been hammered home in so many episodes how her one redeeming quality is how much she loves her children. Her being involved would completely throw all of that out the window.

If that's who you think did it, then yes, I think we are watching different shows.

KT

I think Cersei's actions as Joffrey lay dying were meant to show she was devastated and to indicate she didn't have anything to do with it. Otherwise the producers shouldn't have had Lena Heady give the scene so much emotion from her character.

 

[pauldun170]

The show has established the following suspects
Tywin - Previous comments on Joffery and his history at making things happen
Olenna Tyrell -(Her comment to Sansa at the wedding feast)
Prince Oberyn - His hatred of Lanisters and his training with poisin
Littlefinger - Having all pieces in place to get Sansa out during the Joffery's ordeal

 

[KeithTalent]

I think Cersei's actions as Joffrey lay dying were meant to show she was devastated and to indicate she didn't have anything to do with it. Otherwise the producers shouldn't have had Lena Heady give the scene so much emotion from her character.

Yep, absolutely. That, coupled with previous actions and comments, takes her out of the discussion in my opinion.

KT

 

[techs]

The show has established the following suspects
Tywin - Previous comments on Joffery and his history at making things happen
Olenna Tyrell -(Her comment to Sansa at the wedding feast)
Prince Oberyn - His hatred of Lanisters and his training with poisin
Littlefinger - Having all pieces in place to get Sansa out during the Joffery's ordeal

I would agree but I would add Lord Varys who has stated and been shown that he acts for the welfare of the Kingdom and killing Joffrey certainaly qualifies.

 

[smackababy]

Why would someone who read the books be in this thread?

Are people who have read the books not allowed to be in this thread at all then? Is that what we've decided? What does having read the books have to do with discussing what has happened in the show? I agree with the rest of your post regarding implying things are false, but I don't agree that book readers are banned. They are banned from posting things that are spoilers or discussing differences.

 

[KeithTalent]

I would agree but I would add Lord Varys who has stated and been shown that he acts for the welfare of the Kingdom and killing Joffrey certainaly qualifies.

While I agree with the premise, I just can't buy him as the murderer here based on what has been shown in the episodes.

KT

 

[nageov3t]

I've always gotten the impression that Cersei is pretty much blind to Joffrey's "problems"

 

[pauldun170]

Why would someone who read the books be in this thread? This thread is 95 percent speculation on what will occur and reasons for what happened that we will eventually find out in the coming episodes.

by posting what you did you are hinting you read the books and his post is wrong. That is a spoiler and you cannot post spoilers in this thread. Please don't do it anymore. Thanks.

I was in the middle of typing something else when I rethought that post. Unfortunately this forum will not let you delete so i edited it out.

In Summary
Brandom killed Joffery by controlling Jaime, who is now officially a shell of a man because his soul leaked out his stub. It was Brandon who raped Cersei because he wanted to relive the last moments he remembers having his legs.

That's in the book.
You can look it up

 

[techs]

Are people who have read the books not allowed to be in this thread at all then? Is that what we've decided? What does having read the books have to do with discussing what has happened in the show? I agree with the rest of your post regarding implying things are false, but I don't agree that book readers are banned. They are banned from posting things that are spoilers or discussing differences.

I have absolutely no problem with people who have read the books being in this thread. My only problem is when they post spoilers, and the post in question did post a spoiler.

I just continue to be surprised since this thread is 95 percent about guessing what will happen and finding clues about what will happen. For someone who read the books this would seem to me to be tedious reading to find something to post. Perhaps the only reason I can guess is they are looking to see how good peoples speculation is. btw I didn't report the post, because its the first time I have seen that poster post a spoiler and I figure maybe he didn't know about the no spoilers in this thread rule.

 

[pauldun170]

I would agree but I would add Lord Varys who has stated and been shown that he acts for the welfare of the Kingdom and killing Joffrey certainaly qualifies.

Another candidate, only issue with that one is I can't recall him orchestrating the murder of anyone. Just someone who "helps" lay the framework for the act. Thats why I didn't think of him right away.

 

[techs]

I was in the middle of typing something else when I rethought that post. Unfortunately this forum will not let you delete so i edited it out.

In Summary
Brandom killed Joffery by controlling Jaime, who is now officially a shell of a man because his soul leaked out his stub. It was Brandon who raped Cersei because he wanted to relive the last moments he remembers having his legs.

That's in the book.
You can look it up

:biggrin:

If you read what I posted above I gave you the benefit of the doubt and it turned out to be the correct thing to do.

 

[pauldun170]

I have absolutely no problem with people who have read the books being in this thread. My only problem is when they post spoilers, and the post in question did post a spoiler.

I just continue to be surprised since this thread is 95 percent about guessing what will happen and finding clues about what will happen. For someone who read the books this would seem to me to be tedious reading to find something to post. Perhaps the only reason I can guess is they are looking to see how good peoples speculation is. btw I didn't report the post, because its the first time I have seen that poster post a spoiler and I figure maybe he didn't know about the no spoilers in this thread rule.

I didn't post a spoiler.
I posted something that spoiled someones theory.
oh...wait.

never mind

 

[techs]

I didn't post a spoiler.
I posted something that spoiled someones theory.
oh...wait.

never mind

Yep, that's a spoiler.

 

[blackdogdeek]

Another candidate, only issue with that one is I can't recall him orchestrating the murder of anyone. Just someone who "helps" lay the framework for the act. Thats why I didn't think of him right away.

Didn't he have the guy who castrated him, or some other grave insult, shipped back to him in a box? He opened the box with Tyrion there in the room IIRC.

 

[pauldun170]

Didn't he have the guy who castrated him, or some other grave insult, shipped back to him in a box? He opened the box with Tyrion there in the room IIRC.

Technically, the guy is alive.
Just sayin

have the guy who castrated him

or

some other grave insult

I think if I had to choose between the two...I'd say the first one was the reason he had the guy fedex'd

 

[techs]

Didn't he have the guy who castrated him, or some other grave insult, shipped back to him in a box? He opened the box with Tyrion there in the room IIRC.

I recall something like that also.

Just because we haven't seen any actual killings arranged by Varys, I wouldn't put it past him. Unless you think he doesn't have the balls for it.