Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

[blackdogdeek]

Technically, the guy is alive.
Just sayin

Ah ok, I couldn't remember the scene completely accurately.

 

[Printer Bandit]

this is why i hate tv shows / movies based on books.

spoilers, they be everywhere.

 

[CZroe]

Let's not forget that someone framed Tryion for the attempted assassination of Bran too and that it was likely another example of Lannister-on-Lannister aggression (Cersei and Jaime would gain the most from Bran's death).

 

[techs]

this is why i hate tv shows / movies based on books.

spoilers, they be everywhere.

This show, with its twists and turns, seems to be great material for people who want to ruin it for people who haven't read the books.

btw this week on the Food Network, "how to feed 1,000 wildlings with just 60 crows"

 

[Icepick]

While I agree with the premise, I just can't buy him as the murderer here based on what has been shown in the episodes.

KT

I agree. Lord Varys is too loyal to the empire to be involved in a plot to assasinate it's king. Killing off Joffrey, no matter how much of an ass he has been shown to be might not necessarily be a good thing for the empire as a whole. It could very well result in instability which would throw the kingdoms right back into another war and that would be devastating at this stage.

That is more of Littlefinger's M.O. - to create instability and ride the wave to prosperity. He and the Oberin have the most to gain from Joffery's assassination, IMO.

 

[pauldun170]

Just because we haven't seen any actual killings arranged by Varys, I wouldn't put it past him. Unless you think he doesn't have the balls for it.

quotable

 

[zinfamous]

I think Dany's pace is realistic though. She is marching, on foot, a vast army and that takes time. Would you prefer they continuously cut to them eating and goofing around before Mareen? And once they did show up, they had to give some kind of 'cliff hanger' and display how she can get people to he cause. In slave cities where slaves outnumber the masters, showing up and saying "rebel and be free, btw I got an army and dragons to back you up!" is a pretty good way to take a city.

They are showing all of the stuff that is happening in Westeros rather than Dany, because her story itself is rather disconnected from everything else at this point. I mean, there is the threat she will eventually come to Westeros and a few other minor things, but her actions aren't really effecting the 7 kingdoms at all right now.

yes, but that doesn't make for good TV!

I was spoiled by watching seasons 1-3 on DVD not too long ago, where when I had been subjected to such nonsense episodes, I could just pop in the next episode. Now, I have to watch this season like all the other plebs

Believe me--I don't mind length and such pacing; but there's a difference when it takes her a few episodes to deal with a misogynist (made for some great dialogue) before burning down his city in an epic payoff, to walking up a path for 3 episodes.

 

[zinfamous]

I think his problem is they are showing too much of her. She's in every episode, they could have easily cut her 2nd episode scenes.

They did. Well, uh, she wasn't in the 2nd episode at all. Neither was Arya or, iirc, John Snow.

We were subjected to more Bran crap, however.

 

[KeithTalent]

yes, but that doesn't make for good TV!

I was spoiled by watching seasons 1-3 on DVD not too long ago, where when I had been subjected to such nonsense episodes, I could just pop in the next episode. Now, I have to watch this season like all the other plebs

Believe me--I don't mind length and such pacing; but there's a difference when it takes her a few episodes to deal with a misogynist (made for some great dialogue) before burning down his city in an epic payoff, to walking up a path for 3 episodes.

Yep, I am in the exact same boat as you. Watched the first three seasons on Blu, now it is annoying having to wait week-to-week. I do enjoy being able to discuss it here now though.

Also I understand they are somewhat hamstrung with Dany's storyline and how they need to present it, but it does not mean I have to love every minute of it.

KT

 

[Anubis]

Just because we haven't seen any actual killings arranged by Varys, I wouldn't put it past him. Unless you think he doesn't have the balls for it.

i see what you did there

:sneaky:

 

[zinfamous]

Tywin would never kill Tyrion in a way that hurt the family name (murder, letting him be captured, treason...). He might despite Tyrion, but he understands that Tyrion's fate could easily weaken the Lannister name. Cersei is simply a moron. She cares nothing past her own narrow ambitions and believes she is smarter than she really is. Tywin would never do anything that would hurt his family intentionally.

Is everyone still ignoring the fact that Joffrey was, officially, a Baratheon? Tywin certainly knows there was sister-fucking happening (At least I would assume he does), but even then, there is no way he could ever admit that he was a full Lannister. It would remove all claim he had to the throne and 7 hells would be against their family.

The only thing that prevented him from killing Tyrion at birth was the fact of Tyrion's name and legitimacy. I do believe that had Tyrion been a bastard, he would certainly be dead by Tywin's hands. This much a gathered from that epic scene between the two.

Despite the fact of Joffrey's lineage existing as wide rumor, Tywin still enjoys the advantage of the official line on Joffrey being a Baratheon, which is a further convenience for him if he wanted to kill the little shit.

 

[zinfamous]

Yep, I am in the exact same boat as you. Watched the first three seasons on Blu, now it is annoying having to wait week-to-week. I do enjoy being able to discuss it here now though.

Also I understand they are somewhat hamstrung with Dany's storyline and how they need to present it, but it does not mean I have to love every minute of it.

KT

I probably would have given up on the show ~mid season 2 if I had to watch it from week to week.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I guess I'm in the minority, because outside of King's Landing, I find Daenerys' storyline the most interesting (narrowly beating out the continuing adventures of Arya and the Hound). I don't care about Bran at all, I don't really care about Sam & Gilly or the Night's Watch vs. the Wildlings (although I'm sure that will pick up when the two sides actually meet in battle, which I'm assuming will happen relatively soon), I don't care about the Boltons or the Greyjoys (although that's another one that could get good if they meet in battle), and I really, really, really don't care about Stannis... What else is there? The show can't just be the political intrigue of King's Landing, they need something to break it up, and Daenerys' sacking of slave cities and increasing cabal of perpetual friend-zone military advisers is slightly more interesting to me than Arya and the Hound (as entertaining and informative as it is learning the proper etiquette for ordering chicken).

 

[cronos]

I'm with zin and KT, watched the first three seasons about two weeks before season 4 started.

I somehow did not get spoiled at all about the red wedding though. I have no idea how I managed that. It's going to be one of my life's greatest accomplishments.

 

[zinfamous]

I still think it was Tywin and Cersei. If you think it's a simple as "Littlefinger did it!" then you haven't been paying attention. Why would they reveal the truth so soon after carefully setting up so many suspects?


Ugh. It's like we aren't even watching the same show.

regarding Cersei: Tyrion, currently regarded as the smartest person anywhere in Westeros, firmly believes that Cersei is not involved and, as he admits, the only murder in King's Landing that she would not have a hand in. Her desire to have him (Tyrion) killed is not the same as suggesting that it would lead her to kill her own son. But he does believe that Tywin is involved.

I lean towards Tyrion's thoughts on the matter.

 

[zinfamous]

I guess I'm in the minority, because outside of King's Landing, I find Daenerys' storyline the most interesting (narrowly beating out the continuing adventures of Arya and the Hound). I don't care about Bran at all, I don't really care about Sam & Gilly or the Night's Watch vs. the Wildlings (although I'm sure that will pick up when the two sides actually meet in battle, which I'm assuming will happen relatively soon), I don't care about the Boltons or the Greyjoys (although that's another one that could get good if they meet in battle), and I really, really, really don't care about Stannis... What else is there? The show can't just be the political intrigue of King's Landing, they need something to break it up, and Daenerys' sacking of slave cities and increasing cabal of perpetual friend-zone military advisers is slightly more interesting to me than Arya and the Hound (as entertaining and informative as it is learning the proper etiquette for ordering chicken).

--I really like Dany's story--that's why I am annoyed by the current pacing. Honestly, it is between her and the Hound/Arya right now, and I suppose whatever is happening to Tyrion. (though I prefer Oleana and Tywin scenes to Tyrion scenes now).

The Wildlings and Wall stories, are suffering I think the same fate of the Dany pacing, but even worse. This isn't something that should require time to make an army, control a kingdom, and wait for dragons to grow. We ended Season 2 with an army of zombies advancing, midway through season 3 with Mance's army heading towards the wall, and ended that Season with Stannis on his way to fight zombies.

At his point, I'm not sure why the Nightwatch dont' simply focus on keeping the Wildlings jsut on their side (yes, I know this is their goal and they currently have problems with that), and let the zombies eat the Wildlings. --at least, they haven't discussed this strategy.

Or, at least...maybe they will all team up to kill the zombies?

:hmm:

 

[zinfamous]

Joffery is irredeemable and she finally realized it and that something had to be done about it when Tywin confronted her. The only reason I might doubt it is because she seemed genuinely happy during the wedding and even said so.

Cersei was enjoying all of Joffrey's torments up to and through the wedding and his death, if you watched her reactions. So, she finally realized what about him? The only problem she had with the prick was that she couldn't control him, not that he was a prick to everyone.

Tyrion's whore wife was a Lannister by name and what did Tywin do to her, again?

..surely you're joking?

(point being--Tyrion has blood and legitmacy to his name (not a bastard). His whore wife had none of these. Plus, oh yeah: a whore.)

 

[zinfamous]

Didn't he have the guy who castrated him, or some other grave insult, shipped back to him in a box? He opened the box with Tyrion there in the room IIRC.

yup, awesome scene. Even Varys can be ruthless when he needs to be.

 

[Broheim]

what id' like to know is why that bastard Jon Snow just left Ygritte there and ran, he saw Shaggydog and Summer so he had to know that Bran and Rickon were close.

 

[zinfamous]

what id' like to know is why that bastard Jon Snow just left Ygritte there and ran, he saw Shaggydog and Summer so he had to know that Bran and Rickon were close.

I wondered that myself. My only assumption (besides the fact that she had already put an arrow in him before he could do anything...), is that while he knew he could be together with her, she wouldn't be with him as a Crow--nor would the other Crows tolerate it. I think he feels his duty is first and foremost as a Nightwatch to defend the Wall. That is the promise he made to Halfhand when he infiltrated Manse's camp.

Had he his druthers, I think J Snow would be a Crow and have his wild woman, but she would never go for it--nor would the other Crows.

 

[Drako]

what id' like to know is why that bastard Jon Snow just left Ygritte there and ran, he saw Shaggydog and Summer so he had to know that Bran and Rickon were close.

Maybe he did not want to die? :hmm:

 

[smackababy]

I wondered that myself. My only assumption (besides the fact that she had already put an arrow in him before he could do anything...), is that while he knew he could be together with her, she wouldn't be with him as a Crow--nor would the other Crows tolerate it. I think he feels his duty is first and foremost as a Nightwatch to defend the Wall. That is the promise he made to Halfhand when he infiltrated Manse's camp.

Had he his druthers, I think J Snow would be a Crow and have his wild woman, but she would never go for it--nor would the other Crows.

What I don't get is why Jon Snow wouldn't take a chance to kill Mance. He infiltrated the camp, had a chance, and didn't take it. Sure, he would have died shortly after (or worse), but Mance would be dead and the clans would likely fall apart and be wiped out by the Walkers.

I think his reasoning for not staying to find Bran and Rickon was because his own wolf had "left" and might have assumed theirs did as well. Or, he knew they were in the area and would likely be in trouble if the wildlings found them. So, he fled to have them give chase rather than stick around and possible finding Bran and Rickon.

 

[sactoking]

what id' like to know is why that bastard Jon Snow just left Ygritte there and ran, he saw Shaggydog and Summer so he had to know that Bran and Rickon were close.

The list of people that know Bran and Rickon are alive is short:
Bran
Rockon
Osha
Hodor
Meera
Jojen
Theon
Ramsay
Sam

Jon's not on that list. Assuming he recognized the two direwolves he likely just assumed they were on their own after his brothers' deaths.

Of course, considering the timing of when they left the Wall, he might not actually know they're dead (except Sam seemed to know that in Season 3).

 

[zinfamous]

What I don't get is why Jon Snow wouldn't take a chance to kill Mance. He infiltrated the camp, had a chance, and didn't take it. Sure, he would have died shortly after (or worse), but Mance would be dead and the clans would likely fall apart and be wiped out by the Walkers.

I think his reasoning for not staying to find Bran and Rickon was because his own wolf had "left" and might have assumed theirs did as well. Or, he knew they were in the area and would likely be in trouble if the wildlings found them. So, he fled to have them give chase rather than stick around and possible finding Bran and Rickon.

(I still think the fact that she quickly put 3 arrows in him influenced his decision to flee)



Oh--I think some of us are referring to the larger fight, where he did flee before she tracked him down and turned him into a pin cushion? Yeah, I think there he noticed the wolves, but also knew it was his best chance to warn the Nightwatch and fulfill his duty.

 

[Phoenix86]

Right, because no one would get to episode 3 and say "wait, how did they get here?".

Episode 1 showed them heading towards Mereen, don't show them in episode 2, episode 3 they arrive.