Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

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Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,863
68
91
www.bing.com
Didn't the show explicitly state that wargs couldn't control something like a dragon? I know they spelled out that wargs couldn't control humans (until Bran took over Hodor), but I thought they also said that dragons were higher-level intellects like humans so warging them was out of the question. Maybe I dreamed that bit.

IIRC, Wargs typically control certain animals, BETTER wargs can control a variety of animals. Super super rare ability wargs can control humans.

Hodor being kind of dumb might have helped, who knows.
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
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Hodor being kind of dumb might have helped, who knows.

I think that was the implication; he was of inferior intellect, so his mind was not as complex as a normal human, hence, more prone to warging. Dragons, being intelligent creatures, would be more resistant than, say, a wolf.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,820
29,571
146
Simple: A dragonslayer. Gotta be a dime a dozen in their world.

More seriously though: When discussing the skulls and names of previous dragons they noted the successive generations were smaller and smaller until they were small/weak enough to be defeated. Clearly, something else contributed to their demise.

Inbreeding
 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
4,086
664
126
I think that was the implication; he was of inferior intellect, so his mind was not as complex as a normal human, hence, more prone to warging. Dragons, being intelligent creatures, would be more resistant than, say, a wolf.

The show has not shown any indication that dragons are any more intelligent than a wolf.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,616
3,471
136
didn't they also state this in the show?

I didn't feel like going back and checking and didn't want someone crying spoiler.

What choice does she have? If they roam free they start killing and eating random people. She'd put Drogon back in there if she could.

Because she's an idiot. Who cares if they go around eating some random farmers' kids? None of them like her anyway.

The only smart thing she's done in forever is agree to listen to Tyrion. Hopefully he points out the obvious fact that she'll need all three dragons to conquer Westeros, and the longer she keeps the other two locked up the crazier they'll get (as well as their growth being stunted).
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,820
29,571
146
I don't think it was ever stated that dragons can't be warged (I don't really recall that other kid mentioning dragons and warging). If anything, I think it was along the lines of "it hasn't been done before." He mentioned that warging a human was very rare.

I imagine Hodor is smarter than we all think, he just wasn't gifted with linguistic tools.
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,439
9
81
Because she's an idiot. Who cares if they go around eating some random farmers' kids? None of them like her anyway.

Caring about sparing innocent children from being brutally murdered doesn't make her an idiot. Putting aside the ethical considerations, letting the dragons go unchecked is not a good plan for her as a leader because it makes people think one of these things:

1) She can't control them, and therefore she isn't as powerful as she appeared - you know, back when she gave a direct display of controlling her dragons to free the unsullied.
2) She can control them but is deliberately allowing them to go kill people, in which case the people are better off killing her in the hopes that they'll disperse without their master.

For society to work and people to hold faith in the government, even one headed by a monarch or dictator, they need to feel reasonably safe. One of the worst ways to ensure that feeling is to allow incredibly dangerous beasts to kill people at any time. The best thing for her to do right now is to make the people think she's controlling them and keeping them in check.

The only smart thing she's done in forever is agree to listen to Tyrion. Hopefully he points out the obvious fact that she'll need all three dragons to conquer Westeros, and the longer she keeps the other two locked up the crazier they'll get (as well as their growth being stunted).

That might make sense if she actually could control them.. which she can't. They're not going to do anything for her anymore unless she finds some other way to gain influence over them. No real surprise, most animals lose their bonds with their mother when they become adults. At best they were moderately sympathetic to her but now the two she's locked up appear to hate her and may well kill her if they're released.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
I don't think it was ever stated that dragons can't be warged (I don't really recall that other kid mentioning dragons and warging). If anything, I think it was along the lines of "it hasn't been done before." He mentioned that warging a human was very rare.

I imagine Hodor is smarter than we all think, he just wasn't gifted with linguistic tools.

Warging the dragon thing was assumed, never stated, but it makes a lot of sense. That means the previous dragons were warg'd. If it doesn't take a warg to ride the dragon obviously that opens things up a lot.

It's just too easy of an assumption. How would you train a dragon enough to mount it? See: horses. Good luck breaking a dragon. Warging however, sure, then it'd be EASY!

It just seems too odd to build up Bran's story the way it is and not have warg+dragon=fly.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
That might make sense if she actually could control them.. which she can't. They're not going to do anything for her anymore unless she finds some other way to gain influence over them. No real surprise, most animals lose their bonds with their mother when they become adults. At best they were moderately sympathetic to her but now the two she's locked up appear to hate her and may well kill her if they're released.

from what we've seen on the show, though, she hasn't really even researched anything with regards to how to control them.... maybe Tyrion will help change that.

god knows, pairing up Tyrion and Dany has been the first time I've actually been interested in her plot-line in either the books or the tv show.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,616
3,471
136
Caring about sparing innocent children from being brutally murdered doesn't make her an idiot. Putting aside the ethical considerations, letting the dragons go unchecked is not a good plan for her as a leader because it makes people think one of these things:

1) She can't control them, and therefore she isn't as powerful as she appeared - you know, back when she gave a direct display of controlling her dragons to free the unsullied.
2) She can control them but is deliberately allowing them to go kill people, in which case the people are better off killing her in the hopes that they'll disperse without their master.

For society to work and people to hold faith in the government, even one headed by a monarch or dictator, they need to feel reasonably safe. One of the worst ways to ensure that feeling is to allow incredibly dangerous beasts to kill people at any time. The best thing for her to do right now is to make the people think she's controlling them and keeping them in check.

This theory would be great if everyone liked her and she was trying to keep them from hating her. In the show, everyone hates her except the Unsullied (even the other slaves she freed hate her now, because she's an idiot).
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,716
417
126
tbqhwy.com
Warging the dragon thing was assumed, never stated, but it makes a lot of sense. That means the previous dragons were warg'd. If it doesn't take a warg to ride the dragon obviously that opens things up a lot.

It's just too easy of an assumption. How would you train a dragon enough to mount it? See: horses. Good luck breaking a dragon. Warging however, sure, then it'd be EASY!

It just seems too odd to build up Bran's story the way it is and not have warg+dragon=fly.

if he replaces the tree dude and can warg things at will and becomes the 3 eyed raven, he still will be "flying"

just saying, i didn't see the bran story going to him riding a dragon
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,595
2,958
136
Didn't the last episode of the previous season suggest that Bran had other magical powers? I can't remember the specifics but at the time I remember thinking that they were setting him up to be some sort of mage.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,863
68
91
www.bing.com
from what we've seen on the show, though, she hasn't really even researched anything with regards to how to control them.... maybe Tyrion will help change that.

god knows, pairing up Tyrion and Dany has been the first time I've actually been interested in her plot-line in either the books or the tv show.

I was actually thinking of Season 1, when Tyrion came through Winterfel and gave a schematic for a handicapped horse mount so that Bran could ride.

Obviously if Dany's ancestors rode dragons, then at some point they need to rig up a mount. How convenient that Tyrion just arrived.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
if he replaces the tree dude and can warg things at will and becomes the 3 eyed raven, he still will be "flying"

just saying, i didn't see the bran story going to him riding a dragon

Warging a raven as flying would seem kind of lame, the other free folk was warging into an eagle or something so that doesn't seem special at all.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
Let's talk Ollie.

"It's ok to do something other people think is wrong if you know it's right."

Who is this little shit going to kill/get killed?
 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
3
0
the dragons did not cause the doom. the doom as described in the show was most likely a massive volcanic eruption, ground ripping apart and fire from the sky and all that jazz

we still don't know exactly what the doom was and what caused it, you're also interpreting my comment a bit literally. Just like how Dragons seem to wax and wane with the presence of magic in the world, perhaps an over-concentration of magic caused the doom, i.e. too many dragons/magic in a small area = chain reaction, or maybe dragons were born of the volcanoes and the earth was just trying to reclaim them. In a world where there are magic seasonal periods, its probably a safe bet that the doom of Valyeria wasn't just a simple volcanic event. Basically, if the Others can cause crazy snow storms and winters that last for years, maybe dragons can cause crazy volcanoes/fire storms if there are enough of them.

the only dragons to survive were those the targeryans had, as stated in the show they got smaller and smaller each generation until they were gone

likely due to massively reduced numbers for breeding and the fact that they were not free to roam and kill as they pleased - which I believe was stated in season 1

or it has to do with the decline and reemergence of magic, also stated in the show


Or maybe all the unpredictable outcomes is only to set up the predictable one?

We could keep at this all day couldn't we?

If nothing is what it seems then I could be right? Maybe? But it is fun guessing

yeah, you could be right, but that doesn't make it likely. Song of ice and fire, not a song of ice vs. fire, maybe the others and the dragons are really duping the mortals the dragons and zombies are just going to team up on all the humans. Maybe they're actually champions against the true evil, the many faced god / aka the god of death and they're fighting to conquer death in the world but that they're sort of rivals going about doing it in different ways. Maybe they're all just servants of the same evil god taking on different aspects (ice, fire, old, new, many faces...) and that humans need to overcome them all. Right now all the options are morally grey at best.

Sure, flying fire-breathing dragons into battle to take on the evil ice zombies/wizzards is one of the sexiest possible face-value endings available, but then Robb riding into battle to deliver justice to Joffrey and living happily ever after while ruling the seven kingdoms and making lots of babies with Oona Chaplin was a very sexy face-value ending as well, instead Talisa gets shanked right in the baby bump before Robb is finished off with other pointy ends in front of his mother who gets her throat slit. Yay!

If we get fire dragons vs. ice zombies/wizards, its likely not going to produce what we expect, e.g. the dragons don't get there soon enough and the ensuing roflstomp is a hollow victory, or the epic battle claims the lives of the dragons and Danny saves the world but at the cost of giving up her own power and the throne is claimed by some asshat as bad as any of the bad kings we've seen.

The beauty of this show is that we really don't know what is going to happen. Maybe Danny and Tyrion get eaten by the dragons in Ep9.
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,455
35
91
Let's talk Ollie.

"It's ok to do something other people think is wrong if you know it's right."

Who is this little shit going to kill/get killed?
I hated how that conversation lacked any kind of sense. Ollie just needs to know that if they don't ally with as many people as they can, EVERYONE will die. That should stop Ollie from thinking about undermining anything unless he's really just THAT dumb. Stop feeding Ollie this abstract "leaders need to make hard decisions that not everyone agrees with" BS.
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,439
9
81
I hated how that conversation lacked any kind of sense. Ollie just needs to know that if they don't ally with as many people as they can, EVERYONE will die. That should stop Ollie from thinking about undermining anything unless he's really just THAT dumb. Stop feeding Ollie this abstract "leaders need to make hard decisions that not everyone agrees with" BS.

I think Sam actually made that pretty clear. It's understandable that he's going to struggle with accepting this no matter what.
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,560
8
0
Don't think so. Chopping off enough parts is enough to disable them permanently I think otherwise they can wake up after some time from 'minor' injuries. Remember Jon's first wight kill-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2TlSM-2SyI

so johns killed three wights so far. I wonder if the leaders of the cold dudes can see the other dudes fighting like a hive mind? If they do that guy would have recognized him and considers him thier biggest advesary further explaining that scene.


Now these frozen guys are the ancestors of a bunch of the major players probably. I am sure a bunch of starks have fallen including uncle benjin or w/e his name was.

I have been wondering if the guy in tree was the original bran the builder who became the eyes of the forest. Cool stuff.
 

Ordy

Member
Nov 21, 2004
25
0
0
Anyone else think the Lord of Bones will make another appearance as a member of the WW army? Did the dude in the red beard kill him or just beat the crap out of him and leave him unconscious on the ground? I could see it was a hell of a beating but I wasn't sure if he killed him or not.

I am also curious about Ollie. He comes across as a character who is gonna do something at the worst possible moment and kill a character we wanted to see move forward. I just get that feeling he's gonna be a huge buzzkill.

An a final thought. I am hoping that Brann does eventually warg into a dragon. That would be the the kind of justice he deserves after all the bad shit that's happened to him and his family. I am actually hoping all of Ned's children become super powerful in their own way. Aria as a powerful Faceless assassin, Brann as a master of warging and magic, and something cool for the other surviving children. John Snow seems to be coming into his own and I really like his character's section of the show so far. Badass. The Stark kids have been down and out long enough.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,863
68
91
www.bing.com
I'm still hoping the youngest Stark (Rickon?) reappears.

Let's assume he's somewhere under the radar where no one will notice him, like with the hill people, becoming a legendary double battle axe warrior.
 
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