Game over for HD-DVD?

[R Nilla]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: R Nilla

Originally posted by: manowar821
I'd say that both HD/DVD and Bluray are full of fail.

DVD is great, I don't need DRM infected media.

And just what do you think region coding and "unskippable" tracks are?

Damn, good freakin point.

But I'm not going to spend that much cash to have MORE DRM.

Unskippable tracks aren't DRM, they're forced advertising. But the regions thing, wtf is up with that.

Unskippable tracks are an abuse of UOP which is DRM. One nice thing about HD-DVD is that there is no region coding, but at current pricing, paying for an import HD-DVD is not exactly easy on the wallet.

 

[austin316]

I'm in such a dilemma. I want a Blu-Ray movie player and a new console. So the PS3 seems like the way to go, but the 360 has much better games right now and is cheaper.

 

[austin316]

Region Coding does not matter to 99% of the people. yeah, it matters on tech boards because you guys love your anime and what not, but for you average person, they could care less.

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: austin316
I'm in such a dilemma. I want a Blu-Ray movie player and a new console. So the PS3 seems like the way to go, but the 360 has much better games right now and is cheaper.

Not really. If you add the Elite + HD-DVD you're $80 over the price of the PS3 already, and that's without wireless.

Yeah, games are the big thing though. I want a HD drive now that I got a set, but the PS3 just does not have the games to justify the purchase and the 360 is just jank outside of games. I am talking about all the DRM, Microsoft-only codecs via MCE, the reliability problems, the heat, the noise, the fact you need a tangle of components wired up with huge power bricks to get HD-DVD.

 

[yowolabi]

Originally posted by: Dacalo

Originally posted by: spacejamz
Blu ray has 23 of the top 25 HD Titles in 2007

Granted, these numbers are as of March 18, so they don't include the full counts for Casino Royale for blu ray, Kingdom of Men for HD DVD and Happy Feet which is on both...

And what's sad is Batman Returns is from Warner Bros., who also publishes Blu-ray, which means the movie will be available for Blu-ray soon. I recall seeing Blu-ray case of it somewhere last year from Warner.

Batman Begins was released on HD-DVD and it's also from Warner. So i would expect that Batman Returns would be also.

 

[rockyct]

Originally posted by: yowolabi

Originally posted by: Dacalo

Originally posted by: spacejamz
Blu ray has 23 of the top 25 HD Titles in 2007

Granted, these numbers are as of March 18, so they don't include the full counts for Casino Royale for blu ray, Kingdom of Men for HD DVD and Happy Feet which is on both...

And what's sad is Batman Returns is from Warner Bros., who also publishes Blu-ray, which means the movie will be available for Blu-ray soon. I recall seeing Blu-ray case of it somewhere last year from Warner.

Batman Begins was released on HD-DVD and it's also from Warner. So i would expect that Batman Returns would be also.

Does anyone really care about Batman Returns?


HD-DVD cannot win the format war. The best they can hope for is a tie from dual format players. Blu-ray has too much momentum, too much studio support, and too large of an existing user base. Whether HD-DVD supporters admit it or not, those PS3 users are huge because that is a person that has a blu-ray player. You don't have to convince them that your format is better, and you don't have to convince them to buy your player. All you need to do is convince them that a $30 blu-ray disk is worth the price.

 

[0roo0roo]

sorry, that "installed base" is worth about as much as the installed base for UMD. doesn't matter if you got the player if no one wants to use it for that purpose.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
sorry, that "installed base" is worth about as much as the installed base for UMD. doesn't matter if you got the player if no one wants to use it for that purpose.

ummmm...have you seen who is leading the blu ray vs HD DVD format war lately??

Just thought I would ask since the major shift towards blu ray came after the PS3 went on sale...

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
sorry, that "installed base" is worth about as much as the installed base for UMD. doesn't matter if you got the player if no one wants to use it for that purpose.

It seems that people are though...

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
sorry, that "installed base" is worth about as much as the installed base for UMD. doesn't matter if you got the player if no one wants to use it for that purpose.

Flawed analogy in the UMD was only playable on the PSP, whereas Blu-Ray works on the PS3 and stand-alone units.

UMD sunk because nobody wanted to pay for inferior versions of their DVDs and be locked into a 480x272 screen. Blu-Ray discs work just as well outside of the PS3 ecosystem.

 

[Dacalo]

Originally posted by: austin316
Region Coding does not matter to 99% of the people. yeah, it matters on tech boards because you guys love your anime and what not, but for you average person, they could care less.

Your example is a poor one. North American and Japan share same region for blu-ray.

 

[Dacalo]

Originally posted by: Dacalo

Originally posted by: spacejamz
Blu ray has 23 of the top 25 HD Titles in 2007

Granted, these numbers are as of March 18, so they don't include the full counts for Casino Royale for blu ray, Kingdom of Men for HD DVD and Happy Feet which is on both...

And what's sad is Batman Begins is from Warner Bros., who also publishes Blu-ray, which means the movie will be available for Blu-ray soon. I recall seeing Blu-ray case of it somewhere last year from Warner.

 

[Dacalo]

Originally posted by: yowolabi

Originally posted by: Dacalo

And what's sad is Batman Returns is from Warner Bros., who also publishes Blu-ray, which means the movie will be available for Blu-ray soon. I recall seeing Blu-ray case of it somewhere last year from Warner.

Batman Begins was released on HD-DVD and it's also from Warner. So i would expect that Batman Returns would be also.

I meant Batman Begins, not Returns.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
sorry, that "installed base" is worth about as much as the installed base for UMD. doesn't matter if you got the player if no one wants to use it for that purpose.

Flawed analogy in the UMD was only playable on the PSP, whereas Blu-Ray works on the PS3 and stand-alone units.

UMD sunk because nobody wanted to pay for inferior versions of their DVDs and be locked into a 480x272 screen. Blu-Ray discs work just as well outside of the PS3 ecosystem.

question is how many players exist outside the ps3 ecosystem? not many i bet. as for inferior, with its draconian drm one could easily consider bluray inferior product for consumers. dvds work well outside their ecosystem in a way bluray doesn't. anyone who's ripped films onto a laptop or portable device knows this is true.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
sorry, that "installed base" is worth about as much as the installed base for UMD. doesn't matter if you got the player if no one wants to use it for that purpose.

Flawed analogy in the UMD was only playable on the PSP, whereas Blu-Ray works on the PS3 and stand-alone units.

UMD sunk because nobody wanted to pay for inferior versions of their DVDs and be locked into a 480x272 screen. Blu-Ray discs work just as well outside of the PS3 ecosystem.

question is how many players exist outside the ps3 ecosystem? not many i bet. as for inferior, with its draconian drm one could easily consider bluray inferior product for consumers. dvds work well outside their ecosystem in a way bluray doesn't. anyone who's ripped films onto a laptop or portable device knows this is true.

 

[rockyct]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
sorry, that "installed base" is worth about as much as the installed base for UMD. doesn't matter if you got the player if no one wants to use it for that purpose.

Flawed analogy in the UMD was only playable on the PSP, whereas Blu-Ray works on the PS3 and stand-alone units.

UMD sunk because nobody wanted to pay for inferior versions of their DVDs and be locked into a 480x272 screen. Blu-Ray discs work just as well outside of the PS3 ecosystem.

question is how many players exist outside the ps3 ecosystem? not many i bet. as for inferior, with its draconian drm one could easily consider bluray inferior product for consumers. dvds work well outside their ecosystem in a way bluray doesn't. anyone who's ripped films onto a laptop or portable device knows this is true.

Why would someone buy a blu-ray player when it costs the same as a PS3? How is the blu-ray DRM different from HD-DVD? How does larger layer sizes and uncompressed PCM audio make the format inferior? How do you explain that the blu-ray version of the Departed outsold the HD-DVD version of the same movie?

Blu-ray cannot lose, only tie.

 

[RaynorWolfcastle]

Originally posted by: rockyct

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
sorry, that "installed base" is worth about as much as the installed base for UMD. doesn't matter if you got the player if no one wants to use it for that purpose.

Flawed analogy in the UMD was only playable on the PSP, whereas Blu-Ray works on the PS3 and stand-alone units.

UMD sunk because nobody wanted to pay for inferior versions of their DVDs and be locked into a 480x272 screen. Blu-Ray discs work just as well outside of the PS3 ecosystem.

question is how many players exist outside the ps3 ecosystem? not many i bet. as for inferior, with its draconian drm one could easily consider bluray inferior product for consumers. dvds work well outside their ecosystem in a way bluray doesn't. anyone who's ripped films onto a laptop or portable device knows this is true.

Why would someone buy a blu-ray player when it costs the same as a PS3? How is the blu-ray DRM different from HD-DVD? How does larger layer sizes and uncompressed PCM audio make the format inferior? How do you explain that the blu-ray version of the Departed outsold the HD-DVD version of the same movie?

Blu-ray cannot lose, only tie.

This sounds like Betamax vs. VHS arguments. "Betamax is so much better than VHS, it can't lose!1!1!!".

Mark my words, the side that gets sub $200 players into Walmart will win. At that price point, you'll start seeing them get bundled with big TVs too.

The market right now is split somewhere along the lines of 0.5% Blu-Ray, 0.4% HD-DVD, 99.1% DVD. Regardless of what either side would have you believe, the numbers right now mean next to nothing.

 

[michaels]

Beta vs vhs newsgroup from 1984!
http://groups.google.com/group/net.vide...5ebc359490787b?&hl=en#6f5ebc359490
http://groups.google.com/group/net.vide...5079d40e588495?&hl=en#085079d40e58

Here is a snip

Now, ten years down the line, your old Sony-whatever breaks down,
and its time to buy a new VCR. Your whole 1,000 tape library is in Beta
format, so you have to buy a Beta machine. You look around you, and see
that all of the engineering time and effort has gone into improving VHS
machines, and that Beta machines have all but stagnated.

How can I make a prediction like this? Well, look at the 8-inch
floppy drive. Yes, they're still around, but they haven't been improved
and worked on like the 5-1/4 inch drives have simply because THEY ARE NOT AS
POPULAR. You can get (*now*) quad-density 5-1/4 inch drives, and research
is going in to making the magnetic fields "vertical" (rather than horizontal
as they are now). 8-inch drives have only been improved as a result of
improvements in 5-1/4 inch drive technology which could be transferred.

VHS machines may be clunky, and slow, and not have the sound
quality that Beta machines do (for the same price), NOW. Wait five to
ten years, then come back and we'll have another comparison test...
including tape prices and such. I'm willing to bet (I am "betting"
several hundred dollars by owning the machine) that VHS will be a much
better investment than Beta in the long run.

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: michaels
Beta vs vhs newsgroup from 1984!
http://groups.google.com/group/net.vide...5ebc359490787b?&hl=en#6f5ebc359490
http://groups.google.com/group/net.vide...5079d40e588495?&hl=en#085079d40e58

Here is a snip

Now, ten years down the line, your old Sony-whatever breaks down,
and its time to buy a new VCR. Your whole 1,000 tape library is in Beta
format, so you have to buy a Beta machine. You look around you, and see
that all of the engineering time and effort has gone into improving VHS
machines, and that Beta machines have all but stagnated.

How can I make a prediction like this? Well, look at the 8-inch
floppy drive. Yes, they're still around, but they haven't been improved
and worked on like the 5-1/4 inch drives have simply because THEY ARE NOT AS
POPULAR. You can get (*now*) quad-density 5-1/4 inch drives, and research
is going in to making the magnetic fields "vertical" (rather than horizontal
as they are now). 8-inch drives have only been improved as a result of
improvements in 5-1/4 inch drive technology which could be transferred.

VHS machines may be clunky, and slow, and not have the sound
quality that Beta machines do (for the same price), NOW. Wait five to
ten years, then come back and we'll have another comparison test...
including tape prices and such. I'm willing to bet (I am "betting"
several hundred dollars by owning the machine) that VHS will be a much
better investment than Beta in the long run.

That's awesome. Dude was a total visionary.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

lolz

 

[Blayze]

Originally posted by: Dacalo

Originally posted by: spacejamz
Blu ray has 23 of the top 25 HD Titles in 2007

Granted, these numbers are as of March 18, so they don't include the full counts for Casino Royale for blu ray, Kingdom of Men for HD DVD and Happy Feet which is on both...

And what's sad is Batman Begins is from Warner Bros., who also publishes Blu-ray, which means the movie will be available for Blu-ray soon. I recall seeing Blu-ray case of it somewhere last year from Warner.

I think this is one of the titles that is being delayed on Blu-Ray because of BD Java. Same thing for The Matrix, Harry Potter, and a few others.

 

[tk149]

Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad

Originally posted by: spacejamz
Blu ray has 23 of the top 25 HD Titles in 2007

Granted, these numbers are as of March 18, so they don't include the full counts for Casino Royale for blu ray, Kingdom of Men for HD DVD and Happy Feet which is on both...

jeez...is that right? seems like it is game over for HD-DVD

Cumulative sales of HD-DVD are at 708,600 units, while cumulative sales of Blu-ray are 844,000 units. But those numbers and ones to follow come with a disclaimer. Totals do not include retailers that aren't using VideoScan, among them Wal-Mart.

IIRC, Wal-Mart is the biggest seller of DVD's in the U.S. Which means these numbers are pretty much useless.

 

[tk149]

Originally posted by: Chris
Blu-Ray is outright raping HD-DVD across the board:

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/

Funny, because back in November it was the exact opposite situation. The PS3 really seems to have turned things around.

Where does our data come from?
Our data summarizes the buying patterns across Amazon.com, one of (if not the) largest eCommerce companies in the world. The data is pulled directly from Amazon using Amazon's web services technology. We also show search data from Google, which can help show general interest and excitement in a set of products

Using only one data source and extrapolating a nationwide trend is a little questionable.

 

[tk149]

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastleMark my words, the side that gets sub $200 players into Walmart will win. At that price point, you'll start seeing them get bundled with big TVs too.

The market right now is split somewhere along the lines of 0.5% Blu-Ray, 0.4% HD-DVD, 99.1% DVD. Regardless of what either side would have you believe, the numbers right now mean next to nothing.

I agree. It doesn't matter who the studios are backing right now. If they see that ten times more HD-DVD players are sold than Blu-Ray players (or vice versa), the studios will switch to wherever the money is. I'm sure you'll hear the catch-phrase "giving the consumers a choice" overused at that time.

 

[Dritnul]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Whatever format the porn kings put more stuff on will win. HD-DVD=cheaper to produce=HD-DVD wins.

that and the fact that sony prohibited pr0n from being on blu ray