[GameGPU] 4K Gaming - All overclocked: R9 290X/CF vs. GTX980/SLI vs. Titan X

[RussianSensation]

Test Setup:

i7 5960X @ 4.6Ghz
R9 290X @ 1.1Ghz / 5.5Ghz memory
R9 295X2 @ 1.09Ghz / 5.5Ghz memory
GTX980 @ 1.42Ghz / 8Ghz memory
GTX980 SLI @ 1.42Ghz / 8Ghz memory
Titan X @ 1.38Ghz / 7.5Ghz memory

AMD Catalyst 15.4
NV 350.12

Summary
1. For $600-650, R9 295X2 or 290X CF makes $1000-1200 980 SLI a pretty wasteful purchase as you do not get much valuable increase in performance for that 80%+ premium.

2. Titan X OC is nearly as fast as 980 SLI and actually beats R9 295X2 in minimums. Armed with 12GB of VRAM and many Titan X cards often overclocking > 1.38Ghz, it's probably better to get a single Titan X over 980 SLI today. If future games use > 4GB of VRAM, the Titan X OC will keep its performance while 980 4GB SLI / R9 295X2 will begin to stutter.

3. 980 OC is basically a waste of money over R9 290 OC for 4K gaming as neither is fast enough. If you really want 4K gaming, you are better off with 970 SLI or R9 295X2 instead of buying a $500-550 980.

4. For 4K gaming at 60 fps and very high quality settings, you will need Titan X SLI as R9 295X2 and 980 SLI aren't fast enough. That means we are about 1-1.5 generations away from a single card being good enough for 4K gaming at VHQ.

Individual games:

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[RussianSensation]

Source

 

[Silverforce11]

Titan X OC is a beast (a very expensive beast!).

That thing on water with 1.45ghz boost is very impressive.

Also clearly, 4GB vram isn't enough at 4K, by that extension, 1440p with DSR/VSR.

 

[RussianSensation]

Titan X OC is a beast (a very expensive beast!).

That thing on water with 1.45ghz boost is very impressive.

Also clearly, 4GB vram isn't enough at 4K.

Titan X OC is uber impressive. I just wish NV allowed AIBs to work their magic because eVGA Classified or MSI Lightning Titan X would be more likely to hit 1.45-1.5Ghz on air. Perhaps NV is waiting to re-spin GM200 and then we will get those iterations in the fall. Alternatively if we get a $699 GM200 6GB, and which if overclocked can approach Titan X OC, R9 295X2, 970 SLI and 980 SLI are all instantly obsolete. :thumbsup:

 

[thilanliyan]

Kudos to Titan X for being a beast (when OCed), and for 295X2 for being such a great perf/$ buy.

Looks like I'm set with 290x2 for a little while yet....I'm still on 1200p lol.

 

[Majcric]

And Titan X isn't expensive if it's compared to a card like say the 980 (for what you get). I'd almost buy one if I didn't think a cheaper/better version is coming.

 

[Silverforce11]

And Titan X isn't expensive if it's compared to a card like say the 980 (for what you get). I'd almost buy one if I didn't think a cheaper/better version is coming.

I wonder whether that's the common sentiment this time around, as people are more aware of the Titan -> 780 situation, though this time, it may seem like the 980ti will come quicker.

 

[casiofx]

I always wonder why they usually OC R9 290X to 1.1Ghz...
I used R9 290 Tri-X and it can do 1150Mhz stable with only +100mV, another MSI 290X user that I know can get 1170Mhz stable with the same voltage (it seems 290X are better binned).
The ceiling is usually 1200Mhz with +200mV. I even did 1230Mhz with +200mV and ran Unigine Heaven without artifacts.

On Hwbot, GTX980 average OC is 1451Mhz (2.2% higher than the one used in the test) vs 290X average OC of 1144Mhz (4% higher)

Also just for this test we can see the performance improvements from overclocking:
GTX 980 stock boost 1216Mhz vs OCed 1420Mhz: 10.7% fps increase from 16.8% OC
R9 290X stock 1000Mhz vs OCed 1100Mhz: 11.6% fps increase from 10% OC

290X scales better with OC, so if 290X gets another 4% OC, it'll have bigger impact then another 2.2% OC from GTX 980.

Slightly offtopic, people always touts that GTX 970 is a great overclocker while R9 290 are not. Well I game on 1150Mhz, that's 21.4% OC from the ref 947Mhz. While GTX 970 owners usually get 1500Mhz OC which is 27.3% OC from the stock boost 1178Mhz. Since R9 290 scales better with OC, 21.4% isn't that bad at all. And then people claiming that OCed 290 is hot, well my ambient temp is hot at 33C (tropics) my card ran at 82C, not bad at all, fan runs at 56%. It would do a great deal better if the ambient temp is around 20C (Maybe 10C drop in temp?)

 

[Mondozei]

So we still can't get 60 fps @ very high quality on 4K, even with an overclocked Titan X.

And this is on games, like Watch Dogs, from several years back.

So we'll have to wait for Big Pascal for a real 4K card. Slow!

 

[Riceninja]

Titan X OC is uber impressive. I just wish NV allowed AIBs to work their magic because eVGA Classified or MSI Lightning Titan X would be more likely to hit 1.45-1.5Ghz on air. Perhaps NV is waiting to re-spin GM200 and then we will get those iterations in the fall. Alternatively if we get a $699 GM200 6GB, that when itself overclocked can approach Titan X OC, R9 295X2, 970 SLI and 980 SLI are all instantly obsolete. :thumbsup:

holding out for a $600 980 Ti that's 50% faster than 980/290x and 50% more ram.

 

[raghu78]

the gamegpu pricing on R9 295x2 is mentioned as $990 which we know is wrong. the price is around $700. So those perf/$ charts are wrong for R9 295x2. R9 295X2 offers the best bang for buck for multi GPU.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...H&Description=R9+295x2&N=600494826&isNodeId=1

http://www.amazon.com/XFX-Closed-Co...=UTF8&qid=1429626714&sr=1-1&keywords=R9+295x2

 

[tviceman]

Graphs only prove to me that nothing besides Titan X SLI can drive modern 4K games at high levels and smooth frame rates yet. 1440p is still the sweet spot for maximum performance AND better-than-1080p resolution. It will be two generations from Maxwell (3 generations from current GCN products) until Nvidia's or AMD's second tier chips can drive 4k at great speeds and high quality details.

 

[Black Octagon]

980 OC is basically a waste of money over R9 290 OC for 4K gaming as neither is fast enough. If you really want 4K gaming, you are better off with 970 SLI or R9 295X2 instead of buying a $500-550 980.

Sure about the 970 SLI, Russian? That card isn't in the graphs you posted, and there's the whole 3.5+0.5GB issue

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

I wonder whether that's the common sentiment this time around, as people are more aware of the Titan -> 780 situation, though this time, it may seem like the 980ti will come quicker.

Given that you cannot find Titan X on demand at most retailers, I don't think people are holding out. Heck, I bought one, because I was curious how high I could get it on the ref cooler and then maybe slap an EK loop on it.

Sure, it could be really low supply. Either way, what's hitting the market is getting bought up.

 

[RussianSensation]

the gamegpu pricing on R9 295x2 is mentioned as $990 which we know is wrong. the price is around $700. So those perf/$ charts are wrong for R9 295x2. R9 295X2 offers the best bang for buck for multi GPU.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...H&Description=R9+295x2&N=600494826&isNodeId=1

http://www.amazon.com/XFX-Closed-Co...=UTF8&qid=1429626714&sr=1-1&keywords=R9+295x2

They are using local (Russian) pricing. I didn't link the price/performance charts as a result of that.

Sure about the 970 SLI, Russian? That card isn't in the graphs you posted, and there's the whole 3.5+0.5GB issue

For 4K, I would still take 970 SLI over a single 980. My personal opinion is 980 has always set in no-man's land. With Titan X at least you get that single-GPU performance at 1080P and 1440P. For 4K, 2 of those are beast mode. 980 SLI brings little to the table over 970 SLI / R9 295X2 for nearly double their price. I honestly think 980 and 980 SLI are the biggest wastes of money this generation. A case can be made for 970 SLI, R9 295X2/290X CF, and even the Titan X. I can't think of any reason to get 980 SLI at this time. Perhaps once NV does a refresh with higher clocks, ups the VRAM to 8GB and drops the price to $399-449 like the did with 680 --> 770, the card will become more interesting and separate itself more from the 970/R9 290Xs.

 

[guskline]

Wasn't sure about the R9 290s. When they first came out I was going to jump BUT the price really spiked when the mining craze took off. I waited until the bubble burst and started buying Sapphire Tri-X cards. I have the 2 water cooled to go along with my WC 5960x and am very happy with the performance. The 3rd Tri-X (air cooled) is coupled with my 3770k running Win 10 preview.

These are great bang for the buck cards.

 

[Silverforce11]

Graphs only prove to me that nothing besides Titan X SLI can drive modern 4K games at high levels and smooth frame rates yet. 1440p is still the sweet spot for maximum performance AND better-than-1080p resolution. It will be two generations from Maxwell (3 generations from current GCN products) until Nvidia's or AMD's second tier chips can drive 4k at great speeds and high quality details.

The top GPU on 14nm ff should be able to drive 4K well.

 

[jackstar7]

I'm curious how the 290x 8GB cards in CF would fall on this list. Price is a little up there, but is the extra VRAM worth it at this point in the 290x's life?

 

[RampantAndroid]

They are using local (Russian) pricing. I didn't link the price/performance charts as a result of that.



For 4K, I would still take 970 SLI over a single 980. My personal opinion is 980 has always set in no-man's land. With Titan X at least you get that single-GPU performance at 1080P and 1440P. For 4K, 2 of those are beast mode. 980 SLI brings little to the table over 970 SLI / R9 295X2 for nearly double their price. I honestly think 980 and 980 SLI are the biggest wastes of money this generation. A case can be made for 970 SLI, R9 295X2/290X CF, and even the Titan X. I can't think of any reason to get 980 SLI at this time. Perhaps once NV does a refresh with higher clocks, ups the VRAM to 8GB and drops the price to $399-449 like the did with 680 --> 770, the card will become more interesting and separate itself more from the 970/R9 290Xs.

Why no man's land? I've got two 670s and I game at 1080p right now (ugh.) Im going to move to 1440p soonish, and I am seriously thinking about dumping the 670s off and buying a 980. I seriously don't like my den space heating up when the PC is on (it is quite noticeable. Fine in winter, not fine in summer. We just had a 75F day in Seattle, and it got pretty warm without me gaming or anything. Flip on GTA V and I'm not going to be happy. With a GTX980 I gain some performance and more than halve my power consumption in the GPU department (more so since I have the ASUS GTX 670 that has a full size PCB and is overclocked a bit.)

 

[RussianSensation]

I'm curious how the 290x 8GB cards in CF would fall on this list. Price is a little up there, but is the extra VRAM worth it at this point in the 290x's life?

I doubt it. The cheapest R9 290X is $375 USD but R9 290X is $280, while R9 290 is $240-250. Seems like a steep premium. At that point I'd rather buy R9 290s as stop-gaps, sell them in 6-12 months and re-evaluate the GPU market. I think for someone who doesn't really want to wait 3-6 months to buy a new GPU, grabbing dual 290s today for $480 is a great stop-gap deal.

Alternatively I would pair up with the awesome Gigabyte G1 970s at $295 (Newegg + Amazon). I really don't understand why a lot of PC gamers like to "future-proof" as that concept is more or less outdated when it comes to GPUs. Cheapest cards depreciate less and it's far easier to sell since there is a way larger market for $200-300 cards than $500-1000 ones. If I was heavy into PC gaming right now, I would honestly strongly consider 290s or 970s as a 6-12 months stop-gaps while NV and AMD are dragging their feet with GM200 / R9 390. It shouldn't be hard at all to sell a GTX970 for $200 or R9 290 for $150 by summer of next year, resulting in very minimal depreciation over such a long gaming period. With the 980 and Titan X the situation is far less clear because the minute a price competitive GM200 6GB or R9 390/390X drop, the resale value on those cards is toast.

Why no man's land? I've got two 670s and I game at 1080p right now (ugh.) Im going to move to 1440p soonish, and I am seriously thinking about dumping the 670s off and buying a 980. I seriously don't like my den space heating up when the PC is on (it is quite noticeable. Fine in winter, not fine in summer. We just had a 75F day in Seattle, and it got pretty warm without me gaming or anything. Flip on GTA V and I'm not going to be happy. With a GTX980 I gain some performance and more than halve my power consumption in the GPU department (more so since I have the ASUS GTX 670 that has a full size PCB and is overclocked a bit.)

Because 980 does not provide any substantial real world playability improvement against a 970 at 1080P. Secondly, the discussion in this thread is about 4K. However, I'll address your point anyway. 980 is an awful upgrade from GTX670 SLI. Let me put it this way, if you get $590 Gigabyte G1 970s (see above), should you need the extra power, you have it at your disposal for future games and MSAA. If you want better perf/watt, you just turn off SLI and get 90% of 980's performance. With 980, you get none of that flexibility.

Also, financial it's pretty clear that 980 is grossly overpriced today:

Gigabyte G1 970 = $295 (Amazon/Newegg)
Gigabyte G1 980 = $510 (73% more expensive for only 16% higher performance).

But if you value 16% more fps for $215 more, you have that option.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Because 980 does not provide any substantial real world playability improvement against a 970 at 1080P. Secondly, the discussion in this thread is about 4K. However, I'll address your point anyway. 980 is an awful upgrade from GTX670 SLI. Let me put it this way, if you get $590 Gigabyte G1 970s (see above), should you need the extra power, you have it at your disposal for future games and MSAA. If you want better perf/watt, you just turn off SLI and get 90% of 980's performance. With 980, you get none of that flexibility.

Also, financial it's pretty clear that 980 is grossly overpriced today:

Gigabyte G1 970 = $295 (Amazon/Newegg)
Gigabyte G1 980 = $510 (73% more expensive for only 16% higher performance).

But if you value 16% more fps for $215 more, you have that option.

Thanks for the reply - I had not seen the 970 was so cheap...because I had totally discounted it due to the memory issue. That's something worth thinking over...I wonder if the 970/980 prices will drop in the near future, without the 980ti or 390 coming any time in the very near future. Doubtful, short of some sale I guess.

 

[Riceninja]

I doubt it. The cheapest R9 290X is $375 USD but R9 290X is $280, while R9 290 is $240-250. Seems like a steep premium. At that point I'd rather buy R9 290s as stop-gaps, sell them in 6-12 months and re-evaluate the GPU market. I think for someone who doesn't really want to wait 3-6 months to buy a new GPU, grabbing dual 290s today for $480 is a great stop-gap deal.

Alternatively I would pair up with the awesome Gigabyte G1 970s at $295 (Newegg + Amazon). I really don't understand why a lot of PC gamers like to "future-proof" as that concept is more or less outdated when it comes to GPUs. Cheapest cards depreciate less and it's far easier to sell since there is a way larger market for $200-300 cards than $500-1000 ones. If I was heavy into PC gaming right now, I would honestly strongly consider 290s or 970s as a 6-12 months stop-gaps while NV and AMD are dragging their feet with GM200 / R9 390. It shouldn't be hard at all to sell a GTX970 for $200 or R9 290 for $150 by summer of next year, resulting in very minimal depreciation over such a long gaming period. With the 980 and Titan X the situation is far less clear because the minute a price competitive GM200 6GB or R9 390/390X drop, the resale value on those cards is toast.


Also, financial it's pretty clear that 980 is grossly overpriced today:

Gigabyte G1 970 = $295 (Amazon/Newegg)
Gigabyte G1 980 = $510 (73% more expensive for only 16% higher performance).

But if you value 16% more fps for $215 more, you have that option.

i believe the one you linked to (the one on sale) is a windforce, not a G1. a G1 at that price is an instant buy.

i'm currently considering the $320 MSI 970 4G version.

 

[RussianSensation]

i believe the one you linked to (the one on sale) is a windforce, not a G1. a G1 at that price is an instant buy.

i'm currently considering the $320 MSI 970 4G version.

You are right; those were Windforces. However, in overclocked states 980 vs. 970 is still about 15-17% more performance. I would take the MSI Gaming myself because it turns the fans off at idle and low 3d loads. Plus, it happens to be quieter at full load too.

Thanks for the reply - I had not seen the 970 was so cheap...because I had totally discounted it due to the memory issue. That's something worth thinking over...I wonder if the 970/980 prices will drop in the near future, without the 980ti or 390 coming any time in the very near future. Doubtful, short of some sale I guess.

If you are gaming at 1080P, the 3.5GB of VRAM is a non-factor. It's basically at 4K-5K where 970 SLI starts to struggle badly. Even across 3x1080P screens, 970 SLI is barely slower than 980 SLI. That makes 970 SLI a great value (and the same for R9 290X CF/295X2).

 

[RampantAndroid]

If you are gaming at 1080P, the 3.5GB of VRAM is a non-factor. It's basically at 4K-5K where 970 SLI starts to struggle badly. Even across 3x1080P screens, 970 SLI is barely slower than 980 SLI. That makes 970 SLI a great value (and the same for R9 290X CF/295X2).

I won't be at 1080p if I get an upgrade - a 1440p monitor will have to happen first (U2515H I think, with my employee discount.)\

Everything I read says hitting that 3.5GB boundary in 1440p is *very* possible and renders the game unplayable. Hence why the 980 was in consideration, and the 970 dropped entirely off the list.

http://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrac...nchmarked_gtx_970s_in_sli_at_1440p_and_above/

Given that, I see the 980 as not being no-man's land. Especially so for 4k gamers.

 

[Silverforce11]

1440p with 3.5gb vram on a SLI setup is risky moving forward.

Definitely no-go if you intend to use DSR and super sample down from 4K for the best AA IQ.

Plenty of games of late are pushing into the 4GB limit.

980 is indeed no-mans land in terms of pricing & performance. Wait for the 2nd GM200 SKU from NV.