[gamegpu] Evil Within CPU benchmarks - SNB gets hammered

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Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,875
1,530
136
Maybe it uses AVX code? that may explain why it runs faster on haswell
 
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davie jambo

Senior member
Feb 13, 2014
380
1
0
Yeah, it's pretty bad. I'm not even sure you can mod it, if it's hard coded? TBH, there used to be a time when I spent hours researching that stuff. Now if a game is that badly broken, I just move on.

Your missing the point , it's meant to be like that to make you feel claustrophobic. Like when you crouch your fov is even smaller

Anyway I think the game is technically fine , 30fps might not be to everyone's taste but I don't mind it or notice it in this game. It has dynamic lighting and shadows which is a first for the engine and it looks quite nice
 

BSim500

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,480
216
106
Your missing the point , it's meant to be like that to make you feel claustrophobic. Like when you crouch your fov is even smaller
I know what you're saying, but how that "effect" affects people is entirely relative. I don't feel "claustrophobic" when I see it, I just constantly subconsciously think "half of my screen is missing for no reason". It's like one of those old early letterboxed (non-anamorphic) "widescreen" DVD's that were nothing more than 4:3 full frame with black bars inserted inside the frame that gave the illusion of widescreen on a 4:3 set - until you watched it on a screen that matched the "apparent ratio"... (See earlier screenshot by NTMBK with black-bars around all 4 screen edges for end result).

A lot of horror effects are highly relative. Dark moody textures, creepy soundtrack, plentiful shadows, bloom, HDR & "fright-jumps", etc, are great, but to me, black bars & 30fps are gimmicks that add nothing. Same goes even for non-horror effects (eg, Depth of Field & motion blur which often look bad more than they look good). Thief 3's (Deadly Shadows) Shalebridge Cradle had a more unnerving mood / feel to it than many dedicated 'scary' games - and that wasn't even a horror genre game (or the best Thief game for that fact).
 
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davie jambo

Senior member
Feb 13, 2014
380
1
0
I know what you're saying, but how that "effect" affects people is entirely relative. I don't feel "claustrophobic" when I see it, I just constantly subconsciously think "half of my screen is missing for no reason". It's like one of those old early letterboxed (non-anamorphic) "widescreen" DVD's that were nothing more than 4:3 full frame with black bars inserted inside the frame that gave the illusion of widescreen on a 4:3 set - until you watched it on a screen that matched the "apparent ratio"... (See earlier screenshot by NTMBK with black-bars around all 4 screen edges for end result).

A lot of horror effects are highly relative. Dark moody textures, creepy soundtrack, plentiful shadows, bloom, HDR & "fright-jumps", etc, are great, but to me, black bars & 30fps are gimmicks that add nothing. Same goes even for non-horror effects (eg, Depth of Field & motion blur which often look bad more than they look good). Thief 3's (Deadly Shadows) Shalebridge Cradle had a more unnerving mood / feel to it than many dedicated 'scary' games - and that wasn't even a horror genre game (or the best Thief game for that fact).

I think he's trying to make the game feel like a film and tbf it does kind of work. I guess it would be nice to have the option for going full screen or maybe he should have used the aspect ratio only at certain points to maximise feelings of claustrophobia
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
Maybe it uses AVX code? that may explain why it runs faster on haswell

It would have to more specific run 256bit AVX or AVX2 code to be faster on Haswell.

But we do miss Ivy in the mix to even make an estimate about it. But again, we are talking about a game that devs confirms is broken beyond 30FPS.
 

davie jambo

Senior member
Feb 13, 2014
380
1
0
It would have to more specific run 256bit AVX or AVX2 code to be faster on Haswell.

But we do miss Ivy in the mix to even make an estimate about it. But again, we are talking about a game that devs confirms is broken beyond 30FPS.

It's not broken , it's set at that frame rate for a reason
 

davie jambo

Senior member
Feb 13, 2014
380
1
0
The reason is that it breaks at any other framerate...

Your not meant to change it , not every game has to run at 60fps you know ... and if it doesn't that does not = "bad port"

This game has it's own style and I don't think you should change anything about the frame rate or the aspect ratio. Play it how the director intended you to play it
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,287
5,238
136
Your not meant to change it , not every game has to run at 60fps you know ... and if it doesn't that does not = "bad port"

This game has it's own style and I don't think you should change anything about the frame rate or the aspect ratio. Play it how the director intended you to play it

I will accept that running it at 21:9 aspect ratio is an artistic choice. But coding it so badly that on a 21:9 monitor it letterboxes both horizontally and vertically? That's a bad port.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
Your not meant to change it , not every game has to run at 60fps you know ... and if it doesn't that does not = "bad port"

This game has it's own style and I don't think you should change anything about the frame rate or the aspect ratio. Play it how the director intended you to play it

The devs of the game actually said so.

Over 30FPS=bugged. And they will work on fixing the game up to 60FPS, but not above 60FPS.
 

davie jambo

Senior member
Feb 13, 2014
380
1
0
I will accept that running it at 21:9 aspect ratio is an artistic choice. But coding it so badly that on a 21:9 monitor it letterboxes both horizontally and vertically? That's a bad port.

Pretty sure they will fix that , what with it being a mistake. Don't think there are many people in the world with 21:9 monitors though

Too many people are quick to shout "bad port" these days , when that is clearly not true

Just play the game and stop worrying about all that nonsense , it's a good game and I am glad they stuck with their choices
 

MisterLilBig

Senior member
Apr 15, 2014
291
0
76
I don't mind 30 FPS. I grew up playing console games, it wasn't until recently that developers even cared about 60 FPS and old games where great.


I do find it disturbing that so many people are against freedom of speech.


If you don't agree with the creator, don't buy it, don't pirate it, don't be a hypocrite and play it. Many other PC games out there to play. Or make your own.

If you were done wrong, sue.

Edit: Any game which has Physics, animations or A.I dependent of 30 FPS will get bugged if lowered or increased.
 
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beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
5,228
1,603
136
I'm not arguing, but there is no small debate about weather higher than 24fps movies looks "less cinematic" for actual movies. Might be related. Or not.

This is called the soap opera effect. Movies viewed at high fps will start to look liek cheap soap operas. Personally I am affected by this and hate when movies look like that. That's why I turn off all those "400 hz" anti motion blur" features on LCD TVs. Those features lead to exactly this soap opera effect. It's amazing how bad LCD pictures look out of the box.

Maybe it's PCIe bandwidth? Sandy Bridge was PCIe 2.0, Ivy Bridge was PCIe 3.0. If the game is swapping textures all the time (due to being designed for a unified memory console), that might explain the difference.

Makes sense. vRAM used as System RAM hence tons of PCIe BW needed.
 

BSim500

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,480
216
106
Too many people are quick to shout "bad port" these days , when that is clearly not true
A lot of people don't like the current spate of 30fps "artistic choice" PC games as it coincides with a general trend of watered down Lowest-Common-Denominator bad 30fps PC ports due to weak console hardware with AAA devs hiding behind the excuse of "artistic choice" (for games unrelated to 'horror genres') so as to not 'offend' console gamers. Whether this particular game Evil Within was done for that reason or is simply coincidental, either way - it just sets a bad precedent. The last thing PC gamers need is a general 30fps "bandwagon" trend, even if some games were written for 30fps for genuine reasons other than performance or 'platform parity'.

In short - a lot of people are very wary of the following "slippery slope":-

"Evil Within is set at 30fps due to artistic choice"

Ubisoft : "Yes, yes, we're doing the same with AC Unity, the Crew, the Division, etc, and maybe all future games - it's all out of 'artistic choice' we tell you, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact the consoles we're writing them for couldn't even manage a consistent 60fps if we wanted them to..."

EA : "Oh yes, that's why we fixed Need For Speed Rivals at 30fps, everyone knows high-speed racing games look more 'arty' at 30fps than play smoothly and responsive at 60fps."

Sure guys, we believe you... :sneaky: :thumbsdown:
 

davie jambo

Senior member
Feb 13, 2014
380
1
0
A lot of people don't like the current spate of 30fps "artistic choice" PC games as it coincides with a general trend of watered down Lowest-Common-Denominator bad 30fps PC ports due to weak console hardware with AAA devs hiding behind the excuse of "artistic choice" (for games unrelated to 'horror genres') so as to not 'offend' console gamers. Whether this particular game Evil Within was done for that reason or is simply coincidental, either way - it just sets a bad precedent. The last thing PC gamers need is a general 30fps "bandwagon" trend, even if some games were written for 30fps for genuine reasons other than performance or 'platform parity'.

In short - a lot of people are very wary of the following "slippery slope":-

"Evil Within is set at 30fps due to artistic choice"

Ubisoft : "Yes, yes, we're doing the same with AC Unity, the Crew, the Division, etc, and maybe all future games - it's all out of 'artistic choice' we tell you, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact the consoles we're writing them for couldn't even manage a consistent 60fps if we wanted them to..."

EA : "Oh yes, that's why we fixed Need For Speed Rivals at 30fps, everyone knows high-speed racing games look more 'arty' at 30fps than play smoothly and responsive at 60fps."

Sure guys, we believe you... :sneaky: :thumbsdown:

Don't buy the game then if the frame rate bothers you. It's really that simple. The sense of entitlement from PC gamers is getting ridiculous now , this game was going to be 30fps as that is what they wanted to do.

I don't agree with lower frame rate = more cinematic but for the evil within it really does not matter. You don't notice as the game (on my PC) never drops a frame

Folk will be screaming bad port over this game but in reality it's the best version of the game by far. How can the best version of a game be a bad port ? Sure we would all love extra work done on the PC versions of games but lets face it , they are not going to as it costs money that they will never get back.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
Maybe it's PCIe bandwidth? Sandy Bridge was PCIe 2.0, Ivy Bridge was PCIe 3.0. If the game is swapping textures all the time (due to being designed for a unified memory console), that might explain the difference.


I'd be very surprised if PCIE 2.0 16x wasn't enough bandwidth.

http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Impact-of-PCI-E-Speed-on-Gaming-Performance-518/

Even PCIE 2.0 8x doesn't seem to suffer much in the tests above. Obviously this is a new game ported from the new consoles, so it could be more demanding in that way. But I wouldn't think it should matter too much.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,287
5,238
136
I'd be very surprised if PCIE 2.0 16x wasn't enough bandwidth.

http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Impact-of-PCI-E-Speed-on-Gaming-Performance-518/

Even PCIE 2.0 8x doesn't seem to suffer much in the tests above. Obviously this is a new game ported from the new consoles, so it could be more demanding in that way. But I wouldn't think it should matter too much.

Oh, it would have to be doing some seriously stupid things to be that bottlenecked, I agree. But given the general quality of the port, it's a possibility
 

showb1z

Senior member
Dec 30, 2010
462
53
91
Don't buy the game then if the frame rate bothers you. It's really that simple. The sense of entitlement from PC gamers is getting ridiculous now , this game was going to be 30fps as that is what they wanted to do.

I don't agree with lower frame rate = more cinematic but for the evil within it really does not matter. You don't notice as the game (on my PC) never drops a frame

Folk will be screaming bad port over this game but in reality it's the best version of the game by far. How can the best version of a game be a bad port ? Sure we would all love extra work done on the PC versions of games but lets face it , they are not going to as it costs money that they will never get back.

Expecting something as trivial as an unlocked framerate in a $60 pc-game is entitlement now, awesome.
 

BrightCandle

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
4,762
0
76
In order for a game to have a frame cap you actively have to write it. If you sit down to write a DirectX game in the way the books and such tell you to it will run at the maximum frame rate it can, limited by vsync/gsync or performance if vsync is off. It took effort to reduce the FPS to 30.

As a gsync user I find the idea that 30 fps is just fine because it doesn't miss a frame ridiculous. I don't drop any frames at all at any point so I can along with a few others see gradually the difference lower frame rate actually makes. The first point of smooth is above 40 and below 50 in most first person perspective games for me, and it seems to be coming out as about what everyone else is saying with gsync as well (which is not a surprise). So for cinematic reasons a game has specifically chosen to do something that will reduce the quality of the images by introducing unnecessary stutter "for effect".

That just isn't right and I wont buy a game that comes out with a 30 fps cap ever, its an unnecessary reduction of quality that hurts perception of the actual motion of the game itself and has little value other than performance. They can choose to do it but I also have the right to not buy that game and to complain about it if I want them to do differently in the future.
 

showb1z

Senior member
Dec 30, 2010
462
53
91
yes it is

The developer wants the game to run at 30fps , they decide not us

Buy it or don't

I can assure you, I have no interest in buying any game where the devs claim 30fps is somehow a better experience. It's a ridiculous argument that has been disproved time and time again.
That some people actually buy into that nonsense is even sadder. I'm sure if a dev comes around and says a 640*480 resolution delivers a more cinematic feel because it reminds of good old VHS some people will support that too.

http://30vs60.com/
http://www.30vs60fps.com/
http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates

http://www.pcgamer.com/the-features-pc-gamers-wantan-open-letter-to-developers-and-gamers/
 

davie jambo

Senior member
Feb 13, 2014
380
1
0
I can assure you, I have no interest in buying any game where the devs claim 30fps is somehow a better experience. It's a ridiculous argument that has been disproved time and time again.
That some people actually buy into that nonsense is even sadder. I'm sure if a dev comes around and says a 640*480 resolution delivers a more cinematic feel because it reminds of good old VHS some people will support that too.

http://30vs60.com/
http://www.30vs60fps.com/
http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates

http://www.pcgamer.com/the-features-pc-gamers-wantan-open-letter-to-developers-and-gamers/

I am well aware of all of that and in fact I said myself a few posts ago that 30fps does not = more cinematic

This game does not need to run at 60fps , it's slow paced and you don't notice the frame rate at all. The director guy clearly had a vision of what game he wanted to make , and he has made that game

You or I might not agree with his choices but he's stuck by them and the game is actually pretty good and well polished.

Either buy the game or don't , it is what it is
 

MisterLilBig

Senior member
Apr 15, 2014
291
0
76
A game built for 30fps can have twice as much systems running at once than a game that's built for 60fps. Why do people ignore this? A bike is a bike, a car is a car, both have wheels, but the experience of them are different.


I do wonder if FPS only provides a perception that it matters. Normal Human Reaction times, after all, are way above 120ms. And by my own tests, I take longer to react, click a mouse button, while moving the mouse than stationary. Meaning, actual gaming reaction times are even slower.
 
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Ramses

Platinum Member
Apr 26, 2000
2,871
4
81
strictly speaking, if movie/"cinema" standard is still 24fps, then 30 is indeed more cinematic.

I don't think I've played any games capped at 30, I cap all mine at 60 or 72 or whatever I got my monitor overclocked to. But I did a plenty of fast FPS fragging at 30fps(if I was lucky) and it seemed to work out ok.

If I artificially capped a modern game at 30 would that be the same experience as one of these that comes pre-capped so I can see how it feels?
 

showb1z

Senior member
Dec 30, 2010
462
53
91
This game does not need to run at 60fps , it's slow paced and you don't notice the frame rate at all. The director guy clearly had a vision of what game he wanted to make , and he has made that game

You or I might not agree with his choices but he's stuck by them and the game is actually pretty good and well polished.

Either buy the game or don't , it is what it is

The game may play fine, but thinking a 30fps cap has anything to do with some guy's grand artistic vision is rubbish.
It's simple PR spin because:
1) The consoles don't cut it
2) They're too lazy/greedy/incompetent to make a proper port

If the consoles were more powerful, the game would run at 60fps, it's as simple as that.
And while I don't care about a single game, the implications for this whole generation of ports could be pretty big if every dev suddenly wants to capture a cinematic feel. Ubisoft's already going that route as well.
 
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