gamegpuKiller Instinct DX12 Benchmarks980TI vs 290X)

[Qwertilot]

The fascinating thing with DX12 will be seeing how the next gen things do on the existing games. Could be 'interesting'......

The other thing with the 290/X was when they started trying to sell it as a cheapish mid range card. Just not a good idea - 250w+ TDP cards are 'big' enough that the market for them doesn't seem to be very price sensitive. Hence going refined and bumping the price back up with the 390/X.

They needed to be selling full Tonga 380/X vs the 970/80 then discounting that a bit for being a bit slower, but it went missing in action for some reason.

Oh well, lets hope the die shrink sees them back to being more organised. Looks possible.

 

[thesmokingman]

I'm not sure if its been said, but this game is free in the windows store. I added it to my account but haven't dl it yet. Not sure I want to let MS think gamers would buy into their stupid idea.

 

[Actaeon]

I'm not sure if its been said, but this game is free in the windows store. I added it to my account but haven't dl it yet. Not sure I want to let MS think gamers would buy into their stupid idea.

My understanding of this game is that it follows the freemium model. You get a core set of characters for 'free', then you can buy the rest of the characters as a package or individually. So you get a good taste for free but the whole experience comes at a cost. Good model IMO, and very glad it isn't pay to win.

I have this game for 'free' on my Xbox One as well, but I haven't tried it.

 

[thesmokingman]

My understanding of this game is that it follows the freemium model. You get a core set of characters for 'free', then you can buy the rest of the characters as a package or individually. So you get a good taste for free but the whole experience comes at a cost. Good model IMO, and very glad it isn't pay to win.

I have this game for 'free' on my Xbox One as well, but I haven't tried it.

Yeap. I read you get one character and have to pay for the rest of the game.

 

[Adored]

This so called "incredible" plan got AMD into the mess their in with an 80:20 split in favour of Nvidia ...

And also got Nvidia a 0:100 split of the consoles, forever.

I don't think you understand how easy it is to derail such a plan especially in the situation AMD is in ...

Well I at least understand that if it were so easy, AMD's total domination of the DX12 benchmarks like QB, Ashes, Hitman and Killer Instinct wouldn't have occurred.

Polaris 10 needs to hammer the GP104 at DX12 in the next 6 months after it's release to deem AMD's plan as success worthy if you can even call it that ...

Polaris doesn't even matter.

 

[Bacon1]

This so called "incredible" plan got AMD into the mess their in with an 80:20 split in favour of Nvidia ...

Well thats because Nvidia users have had to upgrade while AMD users are still getting great performance with their old cards.

290(x) was top in 2013 and still 2nd tier in 2016, even getting close to the top Nvidia cards in DX12.

So while Nvidia users had to rebuy to get the same perf gains AMD lost sales because their hardware was still kicking.

Note those numbers you are referencing aren't install % but sales.

 

[tential]

Well thats because Nvidia users have had to upgrade while AMD users are still getting great performance with their old cards.

290(x) was top in 2013 and still 2nd tier in 2016, even getting close to the top Nvidia cards in DX12.

So while Nvidia users had to rebuy to get the same perf gains AMD lost sales because their hardware was still kicking.

Note those numbers you are referencing aren't install % but sales.

Not even that. People forget market timing too. The gtx 970 was uncontested as a "new" midrange card for months. It stood in a vacuum by itself so of course people bought maxwell. We haven't had a successor to upgrade from the r9 290 in YEARS.

Pascal vs Polaris is more back to the norm so I expect market shares and purchasing habits to change quite a bit and not landslide in Nvidia or AMD's factor.

Unless these launches have gaping product holes.... Then it's a whole new game.

 

[3DVagabond]

I think the important thing for AMD which is bad for nvidia right now is that they stopped predicting the future and started dictating it by winning all the console designs.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

Yes. I took them a long time to realize that "people" left to their own won't do anything they don't have to. So, they "manipulated" the future, a bit.

I'd say their mistake was to originally release the R290/x with those terrible coolers. It left a bad rep. R290 was their gtx970 and then some more, in the long term. R290 was about $400 and nvidia had the 780ti at $700. Performance difference was about 14% at their launch date, so basically when nVIDIA was at its best.

Also when gtx970 was at its best (when it launched), in 1440p was 4% faster and 2% faster in 4k compared to a stock R290. This was by all means an incredible performance to be able to keep up with 2 generations. However, if you put emphasis and look only at 1080p in those times...

Of course, it went with AMD bad, nVIDIA good and power consumption above all lead to a situation in sales that doesn't actually paints a true to life picture. If the situation was in reverse, I very much doubt AMD would have had the same sales and market advantage over nVIDIA, just like when it had the upper hand against Intel, but still couldn't put that into a significant sale number.

At the end of the day it's all about user perception. AMD left way to much for the cards to speak for themselves when they should have been more careful about the state of the hardware in which is released and their relations with game developers. Polaris/Vega could be great, but I hope they don't make the same mistakes over and over again - because R3xx/Fury series was another time in which they failed a bit.

Don't forget about mining throwing everything out of wack for whatever plans they had. They might have at least had aftermarket cards sooner if not for mining. Also wouldn't have screwed up their production numbers and left them with a glut of chips when the bottom fell out.

 

[thesmokingman]

Yes. I took them a long time to realize that "people" left to their own won't do anything they don't have to. So, they "manipulated" the future, a bit.

Imo it's more like invested in it, and laid the foundation, built that bridge by taking teh consoles.

 

[DeathReborn]

Yeap. I read you get one character and have to pay for the rest of the game.

Shareware making a comeback? I miss the days where we could trick the timers etc to play more.

 

[thesmokingman]

^^yea lol.

Btw guys. When I said I added it to my account, there was an option to download. Apparently it's not an option. It will DL on its own. And you have to specify in all settings/def apps/storage to set your default app location otherwise it will dump the install onto C drive. And if you run an ssd, that will probably piss you off like it did for me. I hate needlessly writing to my boot ssd. Just uninstalled KI, so annoyed I'm not re-downloading it. POS game.

 

[ThatBuzzkiller]

And also got Nvidia a 0:100 split of the consoles, forever.



Well I at least understand that if it were so easy, AMD's total domination of the DX12 benchmarks like QB, Ashes, Hitman and Killer Instinct wouldn't have occurred.



Polaris doesn't even matter.

Despite the fact that Nvidia has zero share in console their doing a whole lot better than AMD, don't you think ?

We have yet to evaluate Pascal's DX12 performance, Microsoft can partner up with Nvidia to make DX12 more favourable to them, AMD could go bankrupt and nothing will matter etc well you get the idea plus DX12 isn't exactly a clean record for AMD either since they get beaten by Nvidia in Rise of the Tomb Raider and the GoW: UE launch was FUBAR'd for them too ...

 

[Adored]

Despite the fact that Nvidia has zero share in console their doing a whole lot better than AMD, don't you think ?

We have yet to evaluate Pascal's DX12 performance, Microsoft can partner up with Nvidia to make DX12 more favourable to them, AMD could go bankrupt and nothing will matter etc well you get the idea plus DX12 isn't exactly a clean record for AMD either since they get beaten by Nvidia in Rise of the Tomb Raider and the GoW: UE launch was FUBAR'd for them too ...

Nvidia is doing a whole lot better because we only just got DX12 titles.

Pascal's DX12 performance doesn't matter because it can't possibly be better than AMD's. AMD is in complete control of the APIs, the hardware and the developers. This is like GameWorks on steroids.

Microsoft has nothing to gain by supporting Nvidia so why would they? The developers have nothing to gain either. Yes RoTTR and GoW were hobbled but cases like these will become fewer and fewer as time passes.

Any game from this point onward that is made for console will be automatically better on AMD cards. This is the new normal.

 

[ThatBuzzkiller]

Nvidia is doing a whole lot better because we only just got DX12 titles.

Pascal's DX12 performance doesn't matter because it can't possibly be better than AMD's. AMD is in complete control of the APIs, the hardware and the developers. This is like GameWorks on steroids.

Microsoft has nothing to gain by supporting Nvidia so why would they? The developers have nothing to gain either. Yes RoTTR and GoW were hobbled but cases like these will become fewer and fewere as time passes.

Any game from this point onward that is made for console will be automatically better on AMD cards. This is the new normal.

How do you know that Pascal's DX12 performance won't be better than AMD's ? Not even I know whether it will or not ...

Microsoft controls the DirectX specifications, not AMD so are we clear on that ?

I'll give you that Microsoft practically has no intention of supporting Nvidia but if it were up to them I'm pretty sure they'd want IHVs to stand on near equal grounds rather than having to deal with more antitrust lawsuits ...

I have a good feeling that AMD will probably win Total War: Warhammer and Forza Motorsport 6: Apex in DX12 but let's not forget that GameWorks and conservative rasterization exist to put Nvidia at an even ground in DX12 ...

 

[Adored]

How do you know that Pascal's DX12 performance won't be better than AMD's ? Not even I know whether it will or not ...

Can you give me one good reason why Pascal should be better at DX12 than Polaris?

Microsoft controls the DirectX specifications, not AMD so are we clear on that ?

Sure they do, but I don't get your point.

I'll give you that Microsoft practically has no intention of supporting Nvidia but if it were up to them I'm pretty sure they'd want IHVs to stand on near equal grounds rather than having to deal with more antitrust lawsuits...

There is nothing anti-competitive about refusing to dig Nvidia out of their DX12 hole. The margins weren't good enough, remember?

 

[RussianSensation]

Nvidia is doing a whole lot better because we only just got DX12 titles.

Pascal's DX12 performance doesn't matter because it can't possibly be better than AMD's. AMD is in complete control of the APIs, the hardware and the developers. This is like GameWorks on steroids.

Microsoft has nothing to gain by supporting Nvidia so why would they? The developers have nothing to gain either. Yes RoTTR and GoW were hobbled but cases like these will become fewer and fewer as time passes.

Any game from this point onward that is made for console will be automatically better on AMD cards. This is the new normal.

Your last paragraph has some bold assumptions baked into it imo:

1) NV won't aggressively target AAA console ports with GameWorks. This can swing performance wildly in their favour.

2) In brand agnostic titles, NV and AMD are roughly similar in performance -- i.e., on average Pascal and Polaris/Vega are similar in performance. If this is not true, for example, if Big Pascal beats Vega by 20-30%, then any potential advantage for AMD could be easily offset by NV's more powerful hardware. Also, add overclocking into the mix.

3) Assumes that moving forward, XB1/PS4 games will use more modern DX12 codepaths/Async Compute, etc. It's highly likely that some popular games will continue using heavily revised but rather old DX11 engines.

4) Assumes very few games based on UE4. This game engine heavily favours NV. XB1/PS4 ports built on this engine could significantly favour Pascal.

Will PC gamers even care? If GP104 is 6-8 months ahead of Vega, there will be millions of buyers. From June 2016-> December 2016/January 2017, NV could have the $350-650 market all to itself. Sure, on paper GCN-ports may benefit older cards, esp. Hawaii GCN 1.1 based products but will it actually matter as many NV gamers will ditch Fermi/Kepler/Maxwell for Pascal? You and many of us know that for average Joes and loyal buyers, the only thing that will matter are launch GP104/106/107 benchmarks, nothing else. If AMD doesn't have better cards on launch date for any of these products, they will lose another generation as far as sales go. The fastest way to lose the market (share) is to not show up for 6+ months. Promises of future GCN/DX12 AAA PC ports won't be enough for people to wait 5-6 months.

 

[Qwertilot]

It also really isn't remotely clear if Polaris is going to benefit remotely as much as say the 290/X does in DX12. Polaris is going to be a long way past the architecture in the current gen consoles.

A very good thing for everything else of course

Short term, there's a definite danger of it ending up ironically spiking Polaris sales as they'll have to work double to match/beat the 2/390/X in some of these benchmarks where those cards are gaining from the console optimisation.

The very worst case would be if Polaris doesn't get enough market share for people to bother to optimise for it - a few potential warning signs from Tonga/Fiji already Definitely hope that doesn't happen.

 

[Adored]

Your last paragraph has some bold assumptions:

1) NV won't aggressively target AAA console ports with GameWorks. This can swing performance wildly in their favour.

Nvidia's DX12 disaster has been over a year in the making yet they still couldn't stop AotS with full dev access, couldn't stop Hitman while being on good terms with the developer, couldn't stop QB either even though it was supposed to be the "first true DX12 game" according to the Nvidia fanboys last month.

Why would that change in future? Now is the time to not be getting owned at DX12 yet they can't stop it.

Pascal can only fix async, but async was never that big a deal. Only the AMD fanboys thought it was.

AMD got rid of the single-thread DX11 monkey off their back but more importantly they took control of dev relations by controlling the consoles.

This is the new normal. Forget Maxwell vs GCN DX11, it's more likely to go back to the days when AMD had near double perf/mm2 and were way ahead in perf/Watt.

You'll be able to tell who is getting paid most by the DX12 games they benchmark soon.

 

[ThatBuzzkiller]

Can you give me one good reason why Pascal should be better at DX12 than Polaris?



Sure they do, but I don't get your point.



There is nothing anti-competitive about refusing to dig Nvidia out of their DX12 hole. The margins weren't good enough, remember?

Somehow I feel like your underestimating Nvidia's ability to undermine AMD's advantage in DX12 ...

Nvidia could literally go on a buying spree for AAA game exclusivity on their GPUs for the next 2 years ...

DX12 won't matter if there are no killer apps that will be using it or in AMD's favour ...

The point I was trying to make is that AMD is far from being in the clear or safe ...

 

[DooKey]

Nvidia's DX12 disaster has been over a year in the making yet they still couldn't stop AotS with full dev access, couldn't stop Hitman while being on good terms with the developer, couldn't stop QB either even though it was supposed to be the "first true DX12 game" according to the Nvidia fanboys last month.

Why would that change in future? Now is the time to not be getting owned at DX12 yet they can't stop it.

Pascal can only fix async, but async was never that big a deal. Only the AMD fanboys thought it was.

AMD got rid of the single-thread DX11 monkey off their back but more importantly they took control of dev relations by controlling the consoles.

This is the new normal. Forget Maxwell vs GCN DX11, it's more likely to go back to the days when AMD had near double perf/mm2 and were way ahead in perf/Watt.

You'll be able to tell who is getting paid most by the DX12 games they benchmark soon.

Not sure if serious. Delusion is a strong drug. Confirmation bias enhances the effect.

 

[Adored]

Somehow I feel like your underestimating Nvidia's ability to undermine AMD's advantage in DX12 ...

Nvidia could literally go on a buying spree for AAA game exclusivity on their GPUs for the next 2 years ...

So why don't they do it now?

 

[Adored]

Not sure if serious. Delusion is a strong drug. Confirmation bias enhances the effect.

I'll have to take your word on that one dookey.

 

[Silverforce11]

NV can only stop the console/DX12 GCN advantage if they raise the price for the sponsorship of ports.

Xbox as MS has said will get the PC version as DX12 UWP because it takes almost no effort for the studios since both platforms are DX12. Thus, if NV wants changes to this, they literally have to pay the studio/MS to do it, and that also delays the release and that costs more $$.

Basically Gears of Wars: U is the best case scenario for NV with DX12, because its using a very old UE3 engine and code and basically bare-bones DX12. As soon as games use next-gen engines with DX12 ground up, it results in QB, where NV's GPUs get destroyed.

Moving forward, which is more likely for major games? Ofc it's next-gen engines, designed to extract the best performance from GCN hardware in consoles. That means a lot of compute and async compute.

Big titles costs a lot to make, $50-100M. If NV wants to delay the release by a few months so they can inject GameWorks into it, re-optimize the code to gimp AMD performance, they will have to pay quite a lot of money to make it worthwhile for these big publishers.

@Adored
Are you AdoredTV btw? You sound like you have some insights not normal for a regular joe.

 

[DooKey]

I'll have to take your word on that one dookey.

LOL.

Anyway, I have enough doubt about the next gen of cards that I'm probably going to wait until both companies have stuff in retail so I can see what's up. However, none of the current crop of DX12 games interest me so I'm not sure that it really matter too much for my use case. I may just hang onto my 290 and game until the big chip cards come out at the end of the year/early next year and see how the hands play out in the video card poker game.

 

[Adored]

Silverforce - you get it but try to look beyond async. Look at what is coming next. This is game changing for real.

Yes I have a vid on this coming soon, it's an "epic" but hopefully within a few days. Been losing sleep over this one lol.