gamegpuKiller Instinct DX12 Benchmarks980TI vs 290X)

[TheELF]

That is good news for all Kepler and Maxwell owners!

Kepler and Maxwell will continue to perform the same as when people bought them,IF and that's a big if,a lot of future games will come out compute heavy,they will have to upgrade at some point,just as anyone with an AMD card,just because amd performs at higher tiers does not mean that they perform well quantum break for example is unplayable on any current card.

 

[Silverforce11]

Kepler and Maxwell will continue to perform the same as when people bought them,IF and that's a big if,a lot of future games will come out compute heavy,they will have to upgrade at some point,just as anyone with an AMD card,just because amd performs at higher tiers does not mean that they perform well quantum break for example is unplayable on any current card.

QB is very playable, even on a stock 290.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrML1T1-NNw

^ No stutter observed.

Maxed out, ~45 fps in gameplay, 30 fps in cutscenes (game is locked to 30 on cutscenes).

https://youtu.be/3VPIcYkgdCY?t=31s

^ 390 OC vs 970 OC. The 390 sustains 50-60 fps, while the 970 struggles around 35 fps.

These aren't exactly top GPUs either and it's very playable, for hardware that's capable of handling a game with lots of compute or async compute.

 

[ThatBuzzkiller]

Kepler and Maxwell will continue to perform the same as when people bought them,IF and that's a big if,a lot of future games will come out compute heavy,they will have to upgrade at some point,just as anyone with an AMD card,just because amd performs at higher tiers does not mean that they perform well quantum break for example is unplayable on any current card.

Quantum Break runs fine on a Fury X, you can get a near locked 60FPS at 1080p with a 72Hz monitor ...

 

[swilli89]

Kepler and Maxwell will continue to perform the same as when people bought them,IF and that's a big if,a lot of future games will come out compute heavy,they will have to upgrade at some point,just as anyone with an AMD card,just because amd performs at higher tiers does not mean that they perform well quantum break for example is unplayable on any current card.

They can't continue a trend that they haven't kept. They have slipped in performance pretty much since they came out; great performance on release day but diminishing power later on. Its not quite the same for AMD owners because they are receiving boosts from DX12 compute methods as well as console efficiencies.

 

[airfathaaaaa]

They can't continue a trend that they haven't kept. They have slipped in performance pretty much since they came out; great performance on release day but diminishing power later on. Its not quite the same for AMD owners because they are receiving boosts from DX12 compute methods as well as console efficiencies.

check the constant wins of 780ti on dx12 and you will get your answer

 

[IllogicalGlory]

I guess you could say that GCN/Maxwell got faster, rather than Kepler got slower, but is there any way to actually know that? How can you judge a card's performance in particular game, relative to earlier games, except relative to other cards?

 

[Mahigan]

Kepler and Maxwell will continue to perform the same as when people bought them,IF and that's a big if,a lot of future games will come out compute heavy,they will have to upgrade at some point,just as anyone with an AMD card,just because amd performs at higher tiers does not mean that they perform well quantum break for example is unplayable on any current card.

Even Tweaktown mentioned that Quantum Break runs very well on AMD cards. They didn't experience any stuttering.

 

[Silverforce11]

Soon, within a couple of days. I'm working on the video now but it's huge 30 minute+ already. This stuff is gonna blow people's minds.

Let me guess, is it x86/Polaris in next-gen consoles continuing this GCN-era? There's strong rumors for NX with Polaris APU, and likewise for PS4K.

Backwards compatible x86/GCN, it would mean Sony/Nintendo & MS has a mechanism to change console to become more like smart phones, where it's an ecosystem that's backwards compatible, and thus, regularly console updates will become possible. Instead of 5-8 years per console generation, it could be every 2 years, get a new x86/GCN console that has a big performance leap.

Now from 900/1080p @ 30 fps, to 1080p @ 60 fps or 4K @ 30 fps etc.

Because only AMD has the tech, with HSA, HBM2, their APUs will power consoles for the foreseeable future and this will be reflected in games being optimized for that ecosystem.

You mention something important AMD revealed at Capsaicin that most people missed, I wonder what it is, there's not much major stuff besides their push for VR studios to utilize their hardware/DX12 and LiquidVR. Nothing new there though. The only other interesting tidbit is Raja talking about the next-gen being scalable smaller chips on an interposer to increase performance while being economical.

Either way, look forward to your next video.

 

[Adored]

I think we all know that AMD has the consoles wrapped up for good. Obviously one of the results of that will be backward compatibility which just further strengthens their grip. They've got that part of the market sewn up.

I had to split the video, it was getting too long so the "master plan" will be in part 2 some time next week.

 

[Silverforce11]

I think we all know that AMD has the consoles wrapped up for good. Obviously one of the results of that will be backward compatibility which just further strengthens their grip. They've got that part of the market sewn up.

I had to split the video, it was getting too long so the "master plan" will be in part 2 some time next week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ktLeS4Fwlw

Heh, looks like I got the guess spot on then.

I think next-gen consoles, AMD can afford to demand a higher margin for their APUs. Especially since they would have locked it down with x86/GCN backwards compatibility which is critical for Sony/MS/Nintendo's plan of an ecosystem push, as such, AMD will have leverage to bargain for higher margins.

With rumors that the NX will be sold at a loss, I think we're looking at that already.

 

[Qwertilot]

Not quite how this sort of relationship works I think

There's a certain built in advantage for everyone in keeping it as is, but that does only stretch so far before alternatives start getting strongly considered.

Similar sort of position to ARM in the mobile space really. Quite a reasonable place to be, but you can't get greedy.

 

[RussianSensation]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ktLeS4Fwlw

Heh, looks like I got the guess spot on then.

I think next-gen consoles, AMD can afford to demand a higher margin for their APUs. Especially since they would have locked it down with x86/GCN backwards compatibility which is critical for Sony/MS/Nintendo's plan of an ecosystem push, as such, AMD will have leverage to bargain for higher margins.

With rumors that the NX will be sold at a loss, I think we're looking at that already.

If NX requires almost no work to easily run PS4 ports, it sounds like it will have 256-bit 8GDDR5 layout and an x86 CPU component. Whether or not it also has an ARM chip remains a mystery. Still, so many people kept pushing that NX will have only ARM CPU cores but that theory is starting to fall apart now because you would need to do more than "almost no effort of work" to port from x86 to ARM.

Also, if they are going with Polaris tech, this automatically means NX jumps in with 14nm GPU but then how do we reconcile having an APU with a 14nm GPU inside? This would suggest Zen CPU + Polaris on 1 CPU or the CPU and GPU in NX are separate components. Separating them would necessitate a custom made interconnect to not gimp GDDR5. A lot of unanswered questions still. I do remember a LOT of people on this forum and online claimed that NX will be barely on par with XB1, not even reach PS4; and I disagreed from day 1. Mysteriously all the NX pessimists are nowhere to be found now that more leaks are coming showing NX easily beating PS4.

The Masterplan is to have all 3 consoles with GCN. Developers will have 100 million GCN consoles install base by mid-2017. It will require full GCN optimization for 2017-2019 consoles since they will be maxed out using traditional non-compute code paths. That means even if some of the more traditional optimizations of GCN 1.1 won't directly translate to GCN 4.0, it doesn't matter. What matters is both PS4 and NX are likely to share 8 ACEs. To maintain backwards compatibility, Sony/MS/Nintendo will be pressured like never before to resign with AMD for PS5/XB2/NX2. It seems AMD never only cares about this generation of consoles. They are trying to create a GCN-based Async Compute ecosystem in place.

This also could suggest that GCN architecture will be the longest evolving architecture ever, even longer than VLIW because we could see evolution of it with GCN 5.0 in 2018 and GCN 6.0 on 2020-2021. The future 4.0/5.0 iterations would make their way into PS5/XB2. AMD will also want to push Zen CPU cores into next gen consoles because x86 maintains their compatibility with old consoles but also provides extra optimization that will spill over to the PC side.

More so, getting NX design win, given how conservative Nintendo is, implies that Nintnedo believes AMD will be around for at least 5 years. All those doom and gloom AMD haters predicting bankruptcy any year now, who have been wrong for 10+ years already, will be crying once NX announces alliance with AMD

 

[Pinstripe]

More so, getting NX design win, given how conservative Nintendo is, implies that Nintnedo believes AMD will be around for at least 5 years. All those doom and gloom AMD haters predicting bankruptcy any year now, who have been wrong for 10+ years already, will be crying once NX announces alliance with AMD

Tell me more about those Nintendo NX games that will be ported to PC.

 

[swilli89]

If NX requires almost no work to easily run PS4 ports, it sounds like it will have 256-bit 8GDDR5 layout and an x86 CPU component. Whether or not it also has an ARM chip remains a mystery. Still, so many people kept pushing that NX will have only ARM CPU cores but that theory is starting to fall apart now because you would need to do more than "almost no effort of work" to port from x86 to ARM.

Also, if they are going with Polaris tech, this automatically means NX jumps in with 14nm GPU but then how do we reconcile having an APU with a 14nm GPU inside? This would suggest Zen CPU + Polaris on 1 CPU or the CPU and GPU in NX are separate components. Separating them would necessitate a custom made interconnect to not gimp GDDR5. A lot of unanswered questions still. I do remember a LOT of people on this forum and online claimed that NX will be barely on par with XB1, not even reach PS4; and I disagreed from day 1. Mysteriously all the NX pessimists are nowhere to be found now that more leaks are coming showing NX easily beating PS4.

The Masterplan is to have all 3 consoles with GCN. Developers will have 100 million GCN consoles install base by mid-2017. It will require full GCN optimization for 2017-2019 consoles since they will be maxed out using traditional non-compute code paths. That means even if some of the more traditional optimizations of GCN 1.1 won't directly translate to GCN 4.0, it doesn't matter. What matters is both PS4 and NX are likely to share 8 ACEs. To maintain backwards compatibility, Sony/MS/Nintendo will be pressured like never before to resign with AMD for PS5/XB2/NX2. It seems AMD never only cares about this generation of consoles. They are trying to create a GCN-based Async Compute ecosystem in place.

This also could suggest that GCN architecture will be the longest evolving architecture ever, even longer than VLIW because we could see evolution of it with GCN 5.0 in 2018 and GCN 6.0 on 2020-2021. The future 4.0/5.0 iterations would make their way into PS5/XB2. AMD will also want to push Zen CPU cores into next gen consoles because x86 maintains their compatibility with old consoles but also provides extra optimization that will spill over to the PC side.

More so, getting NX design win, given how conservative Nintendo is, implies that Nintnedo believes AMD will be around for at least 5 years. All those doom and gloom AMD haters predicting bankruptcy any year now, who have been wrong for 10+ years already, will be crying once NX announces alliance with AMD

Yes, I am extremely excited for Nintendo DX and what it represents, The Return of Nintendo. For the NX I think we are looking at a 14nm shrink with either 8-Core Puma derived cores clocked nicely. It would be wonderful if it wound up being a 4 core hyperthreaded Zen but I don't think the timelines match up. Puma itself is already a substantial improvement over Jaguar and a further enhancement of that with a 14nm shrink that puts it over 2ghz would be more than enough. EDIT: According to AMD roadmaps it looks like actual zen derived cores will be replacing Puma so I'm actually more torn on if we see a Puma CPU cluster ported to 14nm or an actual Zen based CPU cluster. I expect a custom APU with ~1280 Polaris cores and eight 2+Ghz cat cores or four ~1.8Ghz Zen cores, all along with 8GB of either GDDR5 or GDDR5X memory.

 

[Arachnotronic]

More so, getting NX design win, given how conservative Nintendo is, implies that Nintnedo believes AMD will be around for at least 5 years. All those doom and gloom AMD haters predicting bankruptcy any year now, who have been wrong for 10+ years already, will be crying once NX announces alliance with AMD

Companies can still operate even after filing for bankruptcy, FYI. BTW, those people who have been calling for AMD's demise over the last 10 years haven't actually been wrong that the business would continue to deteriorate significantly, so maybe give those "doom and gloom haters" a little more credit for getting the basic trend right.

 

[Mahigan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ktLeS4Fwlw

Heh, looks like I got the guess spot on then.

I think next-gen consoles, AMD can afford to demand a higher margin for their APUs. Especially since they would have locked it down with x86/GCN backwards compatibility which is critical for Sony/MS/Nintendo's plan of an ecosystem push, as such, AMD will have leverage to bargain for higher margins.

With rumors that the NX will be sold at a loss, I think we're looking at that already.

And now AMD will target the laptop market, with Polaris, and are even making a pretty hefty push into HPC.

When it's all said and done, as I've stated previously, we won't recognize Intel, AMD and NVIDIA. All three companies will be much different. For Intel, they'll be pushing in HPC and will attempt to make some large in roads into the APU HSA market.

NVIDIA will try to keep both Intel and AMD out of HPC, lose the PC Market (yes they will lose it because of the console effect) and push towards self driving cars drivel (who the heck wants a self driving car???).

All in all, I see NVIDIA shrinking, AMD growing and Intel shrinking in one market but growing in another because Zen won't be a flop.

Exciting times.

 

[3DVagabond]

Companies can still operate even after filing for bankruptcy, FYI. BTW, those people who have been calling for AMD's demise over the last 10 years haven't actually been wrong that the business would continue to deteriorate significantly, so maybe give those "doom and gloom haters" a little more credit for getting the basic trend right.

Credit for what? All most of them were doing was gloating, like this post of yours. What kind of credit would you like?

 

[poofyhairguy]

who the heck wants a self driving car???.

*raises hand*

 

[RussianSensation]

Companies can still operate even after filing for bankruptcy, FYI. BTW, those people who have been calling for AMD's demise over the last 10 years haven't actually been wrong that the business would continue to deteriorate significantly, so maybe give those "doom and gloom haters" a little more credit for getting the basic trend right.

That's not what they have been saying. They claimed AMD will not improve their dGPU market share above 20% (we've heard those claims for > 12 months now) as well as AMD declaring bankruptcy, not that its business would decline. Before that, they claimed next gen PS4/XB1 consoles (next gen at that time) won't even get AMD design wins, nor will they be based on APUs. The same posters also claimed AMD won't improve perf/watt with Fiji.

There is strong potential for AMD to improve its positioning with NX, 1440p and above gaming, and VR. That's not even accounting for PS5/XB2 launching in 2019-2020 with a huge probability of having next gen GCN and Zen APUs in them.

TIBURON, CA-March 14th , 2016 - Jon Peddie Research (JPR), the industry's research and consulting firm for graphics and multimedia, will be presenting new research during this week's Game Developer's Conference (GDC) that forecasts the global game hardware market to pass $140 billion in 2019.
https://jonpeddie.com/press-release...arket-forecasted-to-reach-140-billion-by-2019

^ Who do you think is going to be benefiting from this growth? Intel integrated graphics?

"Gaming Notebook sales take breather as Desktop trend for 4K/UHD builds Momentum

The global PC gaming hardware market is forecast to slightly recede in 2015 but, but less than the overall PC market, and then resume growth in 2016. However, all recession and growth within the market is not equal. Jon Peddie Research (JPR) believes that notebooks bought for gaming have entered a challenging sales environment as PC gamers gear up for the forthcoming mass market 4K/UHD development."
http://jonpeddie.com/publications/pc_gaming_hardware_market_report/

The performance and enthusiast dGPU segments now outnumber mainstream by 3:1.

The proof is everywhere.
"High-end add-in boards shipments increased in 2015, while all else declined"

http://www.computerbase.de/2016-03/...rafikkarten-fuer-spieler-hat-sich-verdoppelt/
https://jonpeddie.com/press-release...nts-increased-in-2015-while-all-else-declined

This forum continues to be behind reality of PC gaming hardware still clinging to ideologies that people are buying $100-200 GPUs and i3s/dual cores. To support their claims they use data from PC OEMs, while completely ignoring the DIY market, as well as the growth in the performance and enthusiast segments (like i7 breaking all-time quarterly records for Intel). The biggest growth is happening in the $300+ dGPU and i7 market segments. Many PC gamers entering PC gaming or building/upgrading their rigs no longer want weak sauce $50-130 CPUs and $100-150 underpowered desktop GPUs.

It's akin to claiming that luxury car sales are declining by looking at the overall sales of the entire automotive industry and not even accounting for major declines in emerging markets like Russia, Brazil, etc. where incomes are low and people are less likely to purchase $300+ GPUs and i7s.

"All major regions showed year-over-year shipment declines, with Latin America showing the steepest drop, where PC shipments declined 32.4 percent. The Latin American PC market was intensely impacted by Brazil, where the problematic economy and political instability adversely affected the market, Ms. Kitagawa said. "The ongoing decline in U.S. PC shipments showed that the installed base is still shrinking, a factor that played across developed economies. Low oil prices drove economic contraction in Latin America and Russia, changing them from drivers of growth to market laggards."
http://www.techpowerup.com/221673/w...in-first-quarter-of-2016-according-to-gartner

PCs are not being adopted in new households as they were in the past, especially in emerging markets. In these markets, smartphones are the priority."
http://www.techpowerup.com/221673/w...in-first-quarter-of-2016-according-to-gartner

Do you think AMD will not regain any market share in the next 5 years?
Do you think AMD will sell less Zen CPUs/APUs than existing architecture over the next 5 years?
Do you think AMD will not gain any server market share from Intel in the next 5 years?
Do you think AMD will not get any new laptop design wins with Polaris in 2016 and with Zen in 2017?

AMD survived over the last 3-4 years having inferior perf/watt GPUs, almost non-existent product line in mobile dGPU space, completely noncompetitive FX4000-9000 lines. With NX revenue stream, 14nm GPUs and Zen CPUs, their current market share and market positioning in 2016 will probably be their bottom in the foreseeable future. 2017 and beyond should be a turnaround year for them in GPUs/CPUs, etc. They don't necessarily need to outright beat NV/Intel to gain market share either because in many CPU/GPU segments there weren't even a consideration. For example, NV won sub-75W and sub-150W dGPU markets by default. When NV launched 750/750Ti/950/960 for OEMs, AMD really had nothing for those markets where $20-40 350-400W POS PSU is the norm. It's not going to go down that way once Polaris launches. NV won't just get the same design wins by default anymore.

All in all, I see NVIDIA shrinking, AMD growing and Intel shrinking in one market but growing in another because Zen won't be a flop.

Exciting times.

I don't see NV shrinking at all. They are going to grow their revenue and gross margins by raising prices on GPUs again. You will see. They'll do it by pricing mid-range cards at flagship prices and playing with 1060Ti/1070/1080 names. For instance, 1060Ti could easily match a 980 and be priced at $299 (almost the same price where 970 used to be). Similarly, 1070 could beat 980Ti and still be an amazing value at $399-449. That would allow NV to easily position 1080 at the same $550 or even $600 price levels since it'll offer superior price/perf to 980Ti.

You aren't accounting for huge growth in deep learning, AI, neural networks, autonomous driving, etc. Those markets have incredible potential, far exceeding graphics growth.

Look at where the automotive industry is going --- cameras everywhere, safety systems, computers guiding the vehicle, virtual cockpits. NV hits all of these markets out of the park.

NV is already onboard with Audi (VW Group), which means as prices drop and tech evolves, NV could capture the entire VW Group offerings, from Skoda, VW, Audi, Lamborghini, Bentley, Porsche -- all with virtual cockpits, autonomous driving capabilities, etc.

Virtual cockpit and autonomous driving are dropping to more affordable levels than ever with the all-new A4. NV and Tesla also have huge growth potential. In these markets, Intel and AMD aren't even on the map.

 

[Qwertilot]

I'm in for self driving cars too, it actually seems one of the relatively safer predictions about the future that they'll get very big in a decade or two.

That big post seems very fair, although so was his point - simply that anyone saying AMD were heading for trouble 10 years ago was doing much better than most fools who try to predict the future!

As for the questions - well who knows?

The semi custom APU stuff seem like much the 'safest' thing they're doing. Only genuine (small but real enough) risk would be a 'son of Mediatek' undercutting them horribly price wise.

The dGPU market share holding steady/maybe improving a bit seems fairly plausible. Will definitely at least be around to keep NV honest while they're doing the APU's.

The future of the 'pure' CPU line seems much less clear - you can definitely see that folding entirely if it goes badly from here. Their custom APUs could just use off the shelf arm cores if it comes to it.

And yes, it looks like NV could do very well indeed out of all of the AI stuff! Automated driving seems very likely to get at least quite big, but you never know.

 

[Silverforce11]

The semi custom APU stuff seem like much the 'safest' thing they're doing. Only genuine (small but real enough) risk would be a 'son of Mediatek' undercutting them horribly price wise.

Not possible, because only AMD actually has the IP portfolio and capability to pull off a high performance x86 based APU.

As soon as you talk about ARM CPUs, you lose the opportunity to maintain backwards compatibility and if you don't have that, you will not get gamers to agree to a rapid console cycle. Not only that, ARM is a low-power platform where consoles don't actually need those kind of low-power targets, thus there's no advantage for ARM.

Consoles will be PC like, you will run those new games fine, just at lower res or fps if you have an older console. But the point is they will still work and play acceptably. Why ditch thousands of games in the libraries with a new console right? Makes no sense.

For the first time I think, Sony/MS/Nintendo see the potential for an actual ecosystem, like iOS or Android, etc. They would love to milk gamers every 2 years instead of 5-8 with a new console.

 

[USER8000]

You aren't accounting for huge growth in deep learning, AI, neural networks, autonomous driving, etc. Those markets have incredible potential, far exceeding graphics growth.

Look at where the automotive industry is going --- cameras everywhere, safety systems, computers guiding the vehicle, virtual cockpits. NV hits all of these markets out of the park.

NV is already onboard with Audi (VW Group), which means as prices drop and tech evolves, NV could capture the entire VW Group offerings, from Skoda, VW, Audi, Lamborghini, Bentley, Porsche -- all with virtual cockpits, autonomous driving capabilities, etc.

Virtual cockpit and autonomous driving are dropping to more affordable levels than ever with the all-new A4. NV and Tesla also have huge growth potential. In these markets, Intel and AMD aren't even on the map.

You do realise AMD has more or less captured a big percentage of the large commerical jet market with regards to visual display systems in the last year??

BOTH Boeing and Airbus commercial and military are using AMD based solutions in ALL their new commercial and military passenger and military transport aircraft and that includes the A380.

It just shows you that AMD is so poor at blowing its own trumpet,that hardly anybody realises this.

Plus you are entirely ignoring that in the autonomous car market,Intel,Qualcomm AND Apple are pushing to use their own tech.

We are seeing the consumer PC,tablet and phone market starting to slowdown - that is affecting those companies and you can see how they are trying to diversify to other areas.

Those companies between them have tens of billions of dollars of cash to outspend Nvidia(let alone AMD) in those markets. They are not going to just let Nvidia take that market and have it to their self,let alone their other competitors.

Nvidia managed to one up some of these companies with Tegra,but you saw what happened as time progressed.

Why do you think Nvidia is pushing out the GP100 as quickly as they can?? They are worried about Intel who have come out of nowhere and got MIC into some of the most powerful supercomputers in the world.

The reason why Nvidia has been doing well in the last year or so is since they are eating marketshare from AMD primarily and until very recently they had the commercial GPU market all to their self. Tegra ended up being a failure,so was repositioned to a market where Nvidia thought they would be alone in.

What makes me worry is that AMD has had to adapt to having smaller revenues and R and D spends to get by and has to compete against some larger companies. What happens if Nvidia gets pushed in the same way?

They have only been exposed to three markets:
1.)Graphics cards
2.)Motherboards
3.)Tablets and Phones

The first one in the last decade they have only really needed to fight AMD and for most of that time Intel really put no effort into graphics. That is starting to change now. The same goes with compute.

The last two they failed in. Intel screwed them in the second category and they started off reasonably OK in the third one,to be screwed over by competitors since they just outspent Nvidia. AMD had the same issues with trying to sell their CPUs too,and even when they fired on all cylinders Intel could outspend and outproduce them. Even when they had a reasonable tablet chip the same thing happened.

They have realistically only done well against AMD and ATI in recent history. In the last two they tried fighting the larger companies and it has not worked out that well.

 

[swilli89]

And now AMD will target the laptop market, with Polaris, and are even making a pretty hefty push into HPC.

When it's all said and done, as I've stated previously, we won't recognize Intel, AMD and NVIDIA. All three companies will be much different. For Intel, they'll be pushing in HPC and will attempt to make some large in roads into the APU HSA market.

NVIDIA will try to keep both Intel and AMD out of HPC, lose the PC Market (yes they will lose it because of the console effect) and push towards self driving cars drivel (who the heck wants a self driving car???).

All in all, I see NVIDIA shrinking, AMD growing and Intel shrinking in one market but growing in another because Zen won't be a flop.

Exciting times.

Lots and lots and lots of people. Massive reduction in carbon emission, massive reduction in traffic, massive reduction in parking lot blight, massive reduction in casualties, massive reduction in revenue for police departments from traffic citations, all extremely good benefits all around.

 

[Kenmitch]

Lots and lots and lots of people. Massive reduction in carbon emission, massive reduction in traffic, massive reduction in parking lot blight, massive reduction in casualties, massive reduction in revenue for police departments from traffic citations, all extremely good benefits all around.

Your statement would fit the fight for more public transportation it looks like too me.

 

[swilli89]

Your statement would fit the fight for more public transportation it looks like too me.

In a perfect world, I suppose, but this won't work in most American cities. Houston is the 4th largest city in the country, and when they tried to build out a new, modern light rail system most property owners simply refused. The result? The city dumped millions extending it out to the East side - the poorest and most crime ridden area. The city can tout its own horn now that its done "public transit" but in reality they spent millions of tax payer dollars on a more efficient way to bus in the homeless to the city from the bad parts of town.

Autonomous vehicles OTOH, this would be a MUCH more seamless and painless way to accomplish the above goals. As long as they are safe and reliable, nothing should stand in the way!