Gamers who use LCDs....Why?

[marks70]

Its seems like everyone and their grandma is buying LCDs nowadays. I agree they are great and superior to CRTs for every day usage such as Internet, word processing, etc. and are a perfect fit for the corporate environment. However, gaming is a different story. Despite claims of under 10ms response times and what have you, every LCD monitor out there simply cannot handle graphic intense games, especially first person shooters. Ghosting and tearing plague LCDs, no matter how fast they are. Yet gamers are buying them in droves.

So my question is, why do gamers buy them? Are you saying you don't experience the symptoms I mentioned above...or do you just ignore them, pretend it isn't happening, or do you have really bad eyesight? I say this kind of facetiously, but I'm really curious because I (as well as friends) have tested supposedly some of the fastest LCDs out there, and no matter how much I want to like them, the ghosting and tearing keep me away.

Added....
Also, How do you cope with having only one resolution that is native to the monitor? For text, if you take an LCD out of its native resolution, it looks like crap. So how do you deal with this when it comes to games that won't run in your LCD's native resolution (for whatever reason)?

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: marks70
Its seems like everyone and their grandma is buying LCDs nowadays. I agree they are great and superior to CRTs for every day usage such as Internet, word processing, etc. and are a perfect fit for the corporate environment. However, gaming is a different story. Despite claims of under 10ms response times and what have you, every LCD monitor out there simply cannot handle graphic intense games, especially first person shooters. Ghosting and tearing plague LCDs, no matter how fast they are. Yet gamers are buying them in droves.

So my question is, why do gamers buy them? You can't tell me its because you don't experience the symptoms I mentioned above. Do you just ignore them, pretend it isn't happening, or do you have really bad eyesight? I say this kind of facetiously, but I'm really curious because I (as well as friends) have tested supposedly some of the fastest LCDs out there, and no matter how much I want to like them, the ghosting and tearing keep me away.

Tearing isn't really any worse than on a CRT. I guess it can be exacerbated by the fact that you can't run over a 60-70Hz refresh on most LCDs, but it works the same way. If you have framerates higher than your monitor's vertical refresh and you don't use VSync, you'll get tearing regardless of the display type.

Ghosting is a lot better on the newest generations of LCD monitors. You can see it if you look for it, but some people don't spend all day looking for imperfections in their monitor. Others are more sensitive to this sort of thing.

LCD monitors are much smaller and lighter, and have perfect geometry. Sure, that 20" Mitsubishi Diamondtron looks nice, but it takes up your whole desk and weighs 80+ pounds.

 

[GamerExpress]

I too felt the same about LCD monitors for gaming until I played on a friends new 2405FPW, now I own one myself and enjoy all aplications on it including games!!!

 

[Elcs]

Originally posted by: marks70
Its seems like everyone and their grandma is buying LCDs nowadays. I agree they are great and superior to CRTs for every day usage such as Internet, word processing, etc. and are a perfect fit for the corporate environment. However, gaming is a different story. Despite claims of under 10ms response times and what have you, every LCD monitor out there simply cannot handle graphic intense games, especially first person shooters. Ghosting and tearing plague LCDs, no matter how fast they are. Yet gamers are buying them in droves.

So my question is, why do gamers buy them? You can't tell me its because you don't experience the symptoms I mentioned above. Do you just ignore them, pretend it isn't happening, or do you have really bad eyesight? I say this kind of facetiously, but I'm really curious because I (as well as friends) have tested supposedly some of the fastest LCDs out there, and no matter how much I want to like them, the ghosting and tearing keep me away.

Trying to ignore your insults and ignorance.... I cant see any ghosting in any game I have played on my 16ms LCD apart from the NFS series.... which contains enough motion blur to be difficult to tell.

I was recently in for a check up on my eyesight and it was fine. It doesnt take glasses to see your obvious flame-inciting post.

 

[marks70]

Originally posted by: GamerExpress
I too felt the same about LCD monitors for gaming until I played on a friends new 2405FPW, now I own one myself and enjoy all aplications on it including games!!!

Are you saying that you don't have any issues with ghosting whatsoever, because that is probably my biggest gripe?

 

[ribbon13]

For a dedicated FPS fan, nothing will ever replace a GDM-FW900. Buy one while you still can.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: marks70
Its seems like everyone and their grandma is buying LCDs nowadays. I agree they are great and superior to CRTs for every day usage such as Internet, word processing, etc. and are a perfect fit for the corporate environment. However, gaming is a different story. Despite claims of under 10ms response times and what have you, every LCD monitor out there simply cannot handle graphic intense games, especially first person shooters. Ghosting and tearing plague LCDs, no matter how fast they are. Yet gamers are buying them in droves.

So my question is, why do gamers buy them? You can't tell me its because you don't experience the symptoms I mentioned above. Do you just ignore them, pretend it isn't happening, or do you have really bad eyesight? I say this kind of facetiously, but I'm really curious because I (as well as friends) have tested supposedly some of the fastest LCDs out there, and no matter how much I want to like them, the ghosting and tearing keep me away.

have you even used a modern lcd?
i have an acer 19" lcd that i got for $300 and it plays all my games perfectly. i see no tearing or ghosting at all and i play different kinds of games, FPS (BF2, CoD2), rpg/mmorpg (Fable, WoW). WoW looked a lot better on my LCD than it did on my CRT.

if you get an lcd with a lower response time, you won't have problems. i think mine is a 12ms response time.

quit lugging that huge ass crt around and get a nice, lightweight, space-saving LCD dude.

 

[marks70]

Originally posted by: Elcs
Trying to ignore your insults and ignorance.... I cant see any ghosting in any game I have played on my 16ms LCD apart from the NFS series.... which contains enough motion blur to be difficult to tell.

I was recently in for a check up on my eyesight and it was fine. It doesnt take glasses to see your obvious flame-inciting post.

Not trying to start a flame war. I'm genuinely interested in finding out why gamers buy LCDs despite their limitations in gaming. And how am I being ignorant? I've seen recent LCDs that claimed to be fast and still saw ghosting with them.

 

[Lonyo]

I have a desk that's too small to fit a 19" CRT on, so I bought an LCD. I can run anything at native res (1280x1024) so I'm not bothered by that, and I can increase AA/AF to get better quality. I don't play many games, but those I do incorporate blurring effects anyway, so ghosting does not affect gameplay, if anything it adds to it (Red Orchestra mod for UT2k4, and NFS: MW are all I play at the moment).

 

[GamerExpress]

Originally posted by: marks70

Originally posted by: GamerExpress
I too felt the same about LCD monitors for gaming until I played on a friends new 2405FPW, now I own one myself and enjoy all aplications on it including games!!!

Are you saying that you don't have any issues with ghosting whatsoever, because that is probably my biggest gripe?

No there is ghosting, but the ghosting I have noticed is so minimal you can't really tell unless you are trying to see it. The 2405FPW works great for games, trust me you wouldn't ever want to go back to a CRT when you see how good the 24" of widescreen goodness looks.

 

[ribbon13]

Originally posted by: pontifex
WoW looked a lot better on my LCD than it did on my CRT.

I'll attest to that. RPGs are nicer on LCDs.

WoW 37" 1920x1080 8ms ownage

 

[marks70]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
I have a desk that's too small to fit a 19" CRT on, so I bought an LCD. I can run anything at native res (1280x1024) so I'm not bothered by that, and I can increase AA/AF to get better quality. I don't play many games, but those I do incorporate blurring effects anyway, so ghosting does not affect gameplay, if anything it adds to it (Red Orchestra mod for UT2k4, and NFS: MW are all I play at the moment).

You brought something up that I totally forgot to include in my post...the issue of native resolutions on LCDs. How do you cope with having only one resolution that is native to the monitor? For text, if you take an LCD out of its native resolution, it looks like crap. So how do you deal with this when it comes to games that won't run in your LCD's native resolution (for whatever reason)?

 

[crownjules]

Originally posted by: marks70
So my question is, why do gamers buy them? You can't tell me its because you don't experience the symptoms I mentioned above. Do you just ignore them, pretend it isn't happening, or do you have really bad eyesight? I say this kind of facetiously, but I'm really curious because I (as well as friends) have tested supposedly some of the fastest LCDs out there, and no matter how much I want to like them, the ghosting and tearing keep me away.

Seriously...I don't notice any ghosting/tearing issues on my LCD. I own a Dell 2001FP and it's done nothing but make my gaming experience 100x better then it previously was (partly because my previous monitor was a POS, but still...). I play all sorts of games, including those graphic intense games you speak of (Doom 3, HL2, COD2). I watch movies on it. I run standard applications. I love it and can't imagine going back to a clunky CRT that would eat up desk real estate.

Some people just have ultra-sensitive eyes or are not quite as responsive to technology. The DLP technology that uses all those micro-mirrors, something like 1 in 8 people will see nothing but a giant blur on those screens. That's a very extreme case, but it illustrates that not everyone will see the same thing, especially if it's something very subtle.

 

[imported_goku]

Dude, I have an LCD monitor from 1999 which is obviously not a low ms monitor and I find it sufficient for gaming like in CS. I play battlefield 2 on these oldies and I've got no real issues. Sure I notice when things kind of "blur" when panning across the screen at a moderate speed but otherwise I'm fine with them. I payed 1K for each of these monitors back then and I don't think I'll be replacing these dualies for a while.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: marks70

Originally posted by: Lonyo
I have a desk that's too small to fit a 19" CRT on, so I bought an LCD. I can run anything at native res (1280x1024) so I'm not bothered by that, and I can increase AA/AF to get better quality. I don't play many games, but those I do incorporate blurring effects anyway, so ghosting does not affect gameplay, if anything it adds to it (Red Orchestra mod for UT2k4, and NFS: MW are all I play at the moment).

You brought something up that I totally forgot to include in my post...the issue of native resolutions on LCDs. How do you cope with having only one resolution that is native to the monitor? For text, if you take an LCD out of its native resolution, it looks like crap. So how do you deal with this when it comes to games that won't run in your LCD's native resolution (for whatever reason)?

Newer monitors generally don't look like crap when you scale up lower resolutions. And it's the rare game that won't run in 1280x1024 or 1600x1200 (the most common resolutions for LCD monitors). I wouldn't want to work on text in a non-native resolution, but 3D graphics look fine (if a little blurry).

With widescreen monitors, you can run 4:3 resolutions 'pillarboxed' (with black bars on the left/right) if the game doesn't support widescreen resolutions natively, or have it stretch the image out to the full screen.

 

[JonnyBlaze]

Originally posted by: marks70

Originally posted by: Lonyo
I have a desk that's too small to fit a 19" CRT on, so I bought an LCD. I can run anything at native res (1280x1024) so I'm not bothered by that, and I can increase AA/AF to get better quality. I don't play many games, but those I do incorporate blurring effects anyway, so ghosting does not affect gameplay, if anything it adds to it (Red Orchestra mod for UT2k4, and NFS: MW are all I play at the moment).

You brought something up that I totally forgot to include in my post...the issue of native resolutions on LCDs. How do you cope with having only one resolution that is native to the monitor? For text, if you take an LCD out of its native resolution, it looks like crap. So how do you deal with this when it comes to games that won't run in your LCD's native resolution (for whatever reason)?

i havnt played any text based games in years. ; )

normal games look fine at lower than native res on my 2005fp. i dont notice ghosting either.

before this lcd i had a very good viewsonic crt that i ran at 1600x1200@85hz for the past 5 or 6 years and i think everything looks better on the 2005fp.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: marks70
You brought something up that I totally forgot to include in my post...the issue of native resolutions on LCDs. How do you cope with having only one resolution that is native to the monitor? For text, if you take an LCD out of its native resolution, it looks like crap. So how do you deal with this when it comes to games that won't run in your LCD's native resolution (for whatever reason)?

My Dell 2001fp displays text beautifully at 1024x768.

You seem to be hyper-sensitive to LCDs, so you should stick to 60-pound desk-sized monster CRTs. Most people are not so over-sensitive and so enjoy gaming on their LCDs without problems.

It's the same with HD TV technology: some people are driven berserk by seeing rainbows on DLP sets while most people have to look hard and try silly eye tricks to see them. Some people need prozac to mellow the pain of screen door effect. Some people clamp spikes to their arm so the pain will distract them from scaling artifacts.

You have a problem, but the problem is you not us

 

[GreyMittens]

Dude you're living in the past. LCDs for the last year have had no such issues (at least from the dozen or so I've seen used primarily for gaming). I have an 8ms viewsonic that is maybe 6 months old I use for counterstrike, bf2 mainly and have no issues. Prior to the 19" lcd I had a 21" crt and to be quite honest it is the best upgrade I've ever done (and my desk doesn't have a 200lb monitor on it )

Edit: Anything under or around 15ms I'd wager you'd be hard pressed to really notice any sort of graphic issues.

 

[stelleg151]

If you werent trying to create controversy, you wouldnt have used language like "LCD's are plagued with ghosting" etc etc.

I had a 21" CRT, got a 2005fp, and even at non-native resolutions, and in quick games like CS Source, I tear people a new one much more effeciently on the 2005fp. LCD's make everything easier to see, and the "ghosting" that people complain about it more about being used to motion on a CRT and then playing on a LCD. They are different. At first the lcd didnt seem as responsive, but once used to it, the crispness and brightness really makes thing look better.

Dont force your opions on others as though they are fact, because your subjective opinions, in my opinion, are fairly ignorant.

 

[Reapsy01]

I went from a 17" sony crt to an el cheapo 19" tft and I was amazed at how much better it looked. Never had a problem with tearing. I can imagine that the expensive dell tft's look even better.

 

[morrisbj]

Originally posted by: marks70
Not trying to start a flame war. I'm genuinely interested in finding out why gamers buy LCDs despite their limitations in gaming. And how am I being ignorant? I've seen recent LCDs that claimed to be fast and still saw ghosting with them.

Response time isn't the only aspect that determines gaming performance on an LCD. Beyond that, there is no industry-wide standard for rating response time in ms on LCDs. Some give their white-black response time, some their gray-gray response time, some only the the rising time, some only falling time. If response time is all you are looking at, look for the lowest gray-gray response time you can find and you will not find any ghosting. I imagine you are looking at "fast" under $300 LCDs?

Try to find ghosting in this monitor, then if you do come back here and bitch some more.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: marks70

Originally posted by: Lonyo
I have a desk that's too small to fit a 19" CRT on, so I bought an LCD. I can run anything at native res (1280x1024) so I'm not bothered by that, and I can increase AA/AF to get better quality. I don't play many games, but those I do incorporate blurring effects anyway, so ghosting does not affect gameplay, if anything it adds to it (Red Orchestra mod for UT2k4, and NFS: MW are all I play at the moment).

You brought something up that I totally forgot to include in my post...the issue of native resolutions on LCDs. How do you cope with having only one resolution that is native to the monitor? For text, if you take an LCD out of its native resolution, it looks like crap. So how do you deal with this when it comes to games that won't run in your LCD's native resolution (for whatever reason)?

When I play a game that doesn't do 1280x1024, I'll tell you. So far the issue hasn't arisen.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: marks70

Originally posted by: Lonyo
I have a desk that's too small to fit a 19" CRT on, so I bought an LCD. I can run anything at native res (1280x1024) so I'm not bothered by that, and I can increase AA/AF to get better quality. I don't play many games, but those I do incorporate blurring effects anyway, so ghosting does not affect gameplay, if anything it adds to it (Red Orchestra mod for UT2k4, and NFS: MW are all I play at the moment).

You brought something up that I totally forgot to include in my post...the issue of native resolutions on LCDs. How do you cope with having only one resolution that is native to the monitor? For text, if you take an LCD out of its native resolution, it looks like crap. So how do you deal with this when it comes to games that won't run in your LCD's native resolution (for whatever reason)?

my monitor's native resolution is 1280x1024. i've played games and done other stuff, like web browsing at lower resolutions. i see no difference in quality.
i don't know where you're gtting your info, but its horribly outdated or just plain wrong.

 

[Bazikstano]

a question? max (native)resolution 1280*1024 means that i cant get any higher? (1600*1200)

 

[JonnyBlaze]

Originally posted by: Bazikstano
a question? max (native)resolution 1280*1024 means that i cant get any higher? (1600*1200)

correct.