Gamers who use LCDs....Why?

[marks70]

Originally posted by: morrisbj
Try to find ghosting in this monitor, then if you do come back here and bitch some more.

Its funny you mention that monitor, because that was in fact one of the monitors I did try and experienced ghosting with. Maybe I'm just to anal for LCDs, but I have friends that share my same opinion.

For everyone getting so uptight over this, I apologize. It is MY opinion and experiences with LCD's, and I was looking to get other gamer's opinions. As someone else mentioned, some people are more sensitive to these types of things (blurring, ghosting, whatever), and I guess I fall in that category. I want to like LCDs and would love to finally get rid of my CRT, but the ghosting issues as well as one native resolution keeps me holding onto my clunker.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: marks70

Originally posted by: morrisbj
Try to find ghosting in this monitor, then if you do come back here and bitch some more.

Its funny you mention that monitor, because that was in fact one of the monitors I did try and experienced ghosting with. Maybe I'm just to anal for LCDs, but I have friends that share my same opinion.

For everyone getting so uptight over this, I apologize. It is MY opinion and experiences with LCD's, and I was looking to get other gamer's opinions. As someone else mentioned, some people are more sensitive to these types of things (blurring, ghosting, whatever), and I guess I fall in that category. I want to like LCDs and would love to finally get rid of my CRT, but the ghosting issues as well as one native resolution keeps me holding onto my clunker.

I hated my LCD the first day I got it too. Ugh...blurring all over the place it looked like. Then I actually started gaming and paying attention to the game rather than trying to track down ghosting.

I don't care about resolutions. I use 1280x1024 for everything and have no problem doing it. Colors and contrast/brightness of a high-end LCD like the Samsung 770P or 970P beat a mediocre shadow mask monitor. AG CRTs aren't even a choice anymore.

 

[imported_Tick]

Well, I hate lcd's, but not for the ghosting. Rather, the even on premium lcd's, the image looks, well, fake. That's not the right word, as it doesn't reall describe it, but for some reason, the image just doesn't look true to life for me, even on properly configured lcds. It just seems like all the images are toy-story-ish. They all seem like the clarity is to high, like I'm viewing them through an exotic gas atmosphere. They litteraly aren't blurry enough for me to believe. The world is slightly blury, as air isn't totaly transparent. CRT's convey that effect. LCD's don't.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Tick
Well, I hate lcd's, but not for the ghosting. Rather, the even on premium lcd's, the image looks, well, fake. That's not the right word, as it doesn't reall describe it, but for some reason, the image just doesn't look true to life for me, even on properly configured lcds. It just seems like all the images are toy-story-ish. They all seem like the clarity is to high, like I'm viewing them through an exotic gas atmosphere. They litteraly aren't blurry enough for me to believe. The world is slightly blury, as air isn't totaly transparent. CRT's convey that effect. LCD's don't.

The world is slightly blurry? What are you on, LSD?


...just kidding

Pixel pitch (screen-doorish?) and contrast issue.

The phosphors on a CRT may glow more than crystals if that's what you mean.

It takes a contrast of 100 and a brightness of 0, and more reddish hue to get my LCD to look like a CRT. You may want to experiment with nonlinear gamma ramps.

 

[imported_Tick]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Tick
Well, I hate lcd's, but not for the ghosting. Rather, the even on premium lcd's, the image looks, well, fake. That's not the right word, as it doesn't reall describe it, but for some reason, the image just doesn't look true to life for me, even on properly configured lcds. It just seems like all the images are toy-story-ish. They all seem like the clarity is to high, like I'm viewing them through an exotic gas atmosphere. They litteraly aren't blurry enough for me to believe. The world is slightly blury, as air isn't totaly transparent. CRT's convey that effect. LCD's don't.

The world is slightly blurry? What are you on, LSD?


...just kidding

Pixel pitch and contrast issue.

The phosphors on a CRT may glow more than crystals if that's what you mean.

Ummm, yes, actually. It might just be my eyes. I have astygmatism (sp?) on one eye, with >200/>200 vision, so what I see is not representetive of the real world. Interestingly enough, I have great night vision. Also, when I look at LCD's, they never seem flat to me, like the surface curves away. CRT's don't have this problem for me.

 

[tw33ter]

If you're switching back and forth between crt's and lcd's, you're gonna notice the differences, no matter how small the differences between the 2 are. I have an almost 3 year old viewsonic va720,17" and 25ms RT, and I haven't used any of the new lcd's that are out. Like the people have said above, you're only going to notice it if you're actually looking for it, because for the majority of lcd's users, they've gotten used to it.

 

[imported_Tick]

Non linear gamma ramps? Secondly, thats a very weird setting, but I supose it make sense.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Tick

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Tick
Well, I hate lcd's, but not for the ghosting. Rather, the even on premium lcd's, the image looks, well, fake. That's not the right word, as it doesn't reall describe it, but for some reason, the image just doesn't look true to life for me, even on properly configured lcds. It just seems like all the images are toy-story-ish. They all seem like the clarity is to high, like I'm viewing them through an exotic gas atmosphere. They litteraly aren't blurry enough for me to believe. The world is slightly blury, as air isn't totaly transparent. CRT's convey that effect. LCD's don't.

The world is slightly blurry? What are you on, LSD?


...just kidding

Pixel pitch and contrast issue.

The phosphors on a CRT may glow more than crystals if that's what you mean.

Ummm, yes, actually. It might just be my eyes. I have astygmatism (sp?) on one eye, with >200/>200 vision, so what I see is not representetive of the real world. Interestingly enough, I have great night vision. Also, when I look at LCD's, they never seem flat to me, like the surface curves away. CRT's don't have this problem for me.

Same here. Astygmatism in one eye and as for corrections its 125 and 175 for me or something. I should start wearing my glasses...heh.

Well CRTs should be curved. LCDs are flat. Do flat CRTs give you the same effect as LCDs? At first they looked odd to me too but I couldn't live with a curved display anymore.

 

[ribbon13]

OP, have you had any experience with the Samsung 214T?

 

[imported_Tick]

Originally posted by: tw33ter
If you're switching back and forth between crt's and lcd's, you're gonna notice the differences, no matter how small the differences between the 2 are. I have an almost 3 year old viewsonic va720,17" and 25ms RT, and I haven't used any of the new lcd's that are out. Like the people have said above, you're only going to notice it if you're actually looking for it, because for the majority of lcd's users, they've gotten used to it.

If it takes getting used to, I aint gonna do it. And no, I don't miss out on thing because I refuse to get used to them. I use a track ball, never took getting used to, can go back to mouse just fine. I liked green olives and burbon the first time I tried them, etc.

 

[imported_Tick]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Tick

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Tick
Well, I hate lcd's, but not for the ghosting. Rather, the even on premium lcd's, the image looks, well, fake. That's not the right word, as it doesn't reall describe it, but for some reason, the image just doesn't look true to life for me, even on properly configured lcds. It just seems like all the images are toy-story-ish. They all seem like the clarity is to high, like I'm viewing them through an exotic gas atmosphere. They litteraly aren't blurry enough for me to believe. The world is slightly blury, as air isn't totaly transparent. CRT's convey that effect. LCD's don't.

The world is slightly blurry? What are you on, LSD?


...just kidding

Pixel pitch and contrast issue.

The phosphors on a CRT may glow more than crystals if that's what you mean.

Ummm, yes, actually. It might just be my eyes. I have astygmatism (sp?) on one eye, with >200/>200 vision, so what I see is not representetive of the real world. Interestingly enough, I have great night vision. Also, when I look at LCD's, they never seem flat to me, like the surface curves away. CRT's don't have this problem for me.

Same here. Astygmatism in one eye and as for corrections its 125 and 175 for me or something. I should start wearing my glasses...heh.

Well CRTs should be curved. LCDs are flat. Do flat CRTs give you the same effect as LCDs? At first they looked odd to me too but I couldn't live with a curved display anymore.

I have a flat screen CRT. Looks flat. Flat LCD's look curved to me. And what are non linear gamma ramps?

 

[xtknight]

I wouldn't say it takes getting used to. I still notice the ghosting just as much as when I got it. If you focus on the game itself, it won't bother you. But I haven't gotten 'used' to anything.

 

[yosuke188]

You can play for a longer time because your eyes don't burn after an hour of play. Just my opinion. I can't stand CRTs.

 

[xtknight]

A nonlinear gamma ramp means not all colors get same 'treatment' per se. It's an easy way to fix the fluorescent cast of LCDs. Makes it a lot better for me. Nothing has done it any better. I use RivaTuner with the 'direct access to RAMDAC pallete' setting. It gives you full control over the colors basically, whereas with linear adjustments you just make all the colors darker or brighter. This is RAMDAC-level though, so your monitor isn't actually being modified. It is still an improvement though.

 

[imported_Tick]

Originally posted by: xtknight
A nonlinear gamma ramp means not all colors get same 'treatment' per se. It's an easy way to fix the fluorescent cast of LCDs. Makes it a lot better for me. Nothing has done it any better. I use RivaTuner with the 'direct access to RAMDAC pallete' setting. It gives you full control over the colors basically, whereas with linear adjustments you just make all the colors darker or brighter.

Huh.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Tick
Huh.

OK put it this way. Not that I'd want to, but with a nonlinear gamma I can make medium blue look like pink and lighter blue still like blue. With linear I could only make both darker or both lighter. Does that give you an idea of how flexible it is? Basically it's a super color-mapping machine. Since LCD backlights make things look too bluish, I can someone compensate for that by lowering blue level and bumping red level (except for black and white). It's not the second coming of Christ but it sure will give you results like you wouldn't believe were possible. On 10-bit LCDs they have monitor-level adjustment of this gamma, which looks even better.

 

[supastar1568]

tearing only happens when the frames put out for the graphics card are higher than you monitors refresh rate.


so just dont get a good grapics card


anyways, for example BF2 averages 55-60 fps with my x800xl. My LCD monitors refresh rate is 70.

I get no tearing whatsoever with decent frames

 

[fire400]

Originally posted by: GamerExpress
I too felt the same about LCD monitors for gaming until I played on a friends new 2405FPW, now I own one myself and enjoy all aplications on it including games!!!

agree, LCD monitors are the way to go!

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

My 17" Envision advertises like a 25ms response rate, and I don't see any ghosting whatsoever... It's not like my graphics card can handle anything above 1280x1024 anyways, so I'm perfectly fine with it. However, if I did have a nice graphics card, I would want a 2405FPW...

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

you've been under a rock or something.

 

[Woofmeister]

Originally posted by: marks70
You brought something up that I totally forgot to include in my post...the issue of native resolutions on LCDs. How do you cope with having only one resolution that is native to the monitor? For text, if you take an LCD out of its native resolution, it looks like crap. So how do you deal with this when it comes to games that won't run in your LCD's native resolution (for whatever reason)?

Use the search Luke.

 

[Robor]

I had a Compaq P1220 (Mitsubishi Diamondtron tube) die on me about 6 months ago. I replaced it with a Dell 2001FP and I have to say it sucks for gaming. You're limited to 1600x1200 resolution if you want to stick with the LCD native resolution and I don't care what anyone says - this thing does ghost. Don't get me wrong, the 2001FP looks great for regular use but it's nowhere near a CRT for gaming. In fact, I purchased another Compaq P1220 just to game on.

 

[marks70]

In reading your link Woofmeister, its amusing that people say they "get used to" the ghosting as opposed to saying there is no ghosting even on newer LCDs.

Thanks Robor and others for backing me up.

 

[stelleg151]

Originally posted by: stelleg151
If you werent trying to create controversy, you wouldnt have used language like "LCD's are plagued with ghosting" etc etc.

I had a 21" CRT, got a 2005fp, and even at non-native resolutions, and in quick games like CS Source, I tear people a new one much more effeciently on the 2005fp. LCD's make everything easier to see, and the "ghosting" that people complain about it more about being used to motion on a CRT and then playing on a LCD. They are different. At first the lcd didnt seem as responsive, but once used to it, the crispness and brightness really makes thing look better.

Dont force your opions on others as though they are fact, because your subjective opinions, in my opinion, are fairly ignorant.

Yeah forgive me OP, was a bit rude, had a bad morning, but yeah as many crt-lcd people are claiming, you really do get used to lcd's "flow" and it becomes hard to look at a CRT anymore.

I would recommend trying an LCD for a week or two, maybe a month if possible, and if you still feel the same way, return it.

 

[imported_electron]

Originally posted by: supastar1568
tearing only happens when the frames put out for the graphics card are higher than you monitors refresh rate.


so just dont get a good grapics card


anyways, for example BF2 averages 55-60 fps with my x800xl. My LCD monitors refresh rate is 70.

I get no tearing whatsoever with decent frames

you could just turn on vsync if your gpu pumps higher framerates than your refresh rate.