Gamers who use LCDs....Why?

[Jules]

Nope 0 Ghosting and Tearing

 

[Slammy1]

You know this is just a troll topic. I mean, AMD vs Intel, Bose is a great speaker mfr, you guys look funny and kinda smell, me>u; same thing. I say, if you want to buy a CRT that's fine, just don't go recommending it to n00bs that wouldn't know any better. That's not right.

I really don't miss the "crt-eyes" at all. It'd get so bad when I'd be doing late night gaming it felt like a headache at times. My crt blew up a couple years ago. Now I do everything with my lcd monitor, I don't even have a tv (got rid of my 32" JVC dinosaur about 2 months after watching broadcast programs on the computer). We went to look at the HDTVs at BB, my friend said my 19" ViewSonic with a 25ms response looked much better. I'd be confused that anyone would try to convince people that CRTs are better, except that this is just a troll effort. And it is the internet, lots of people looking for attention. Please, don't feed the trolls.

I'm sorry if this has already been covered. I saw when this was started and then again today, didn't read the interim pages.

 

[marks70]

I'm not trying to advocate CRTs or say one is better than the other. If you re-read my original post, I basically say LCDs are superior for everything except for gaming, in my opinion. Even the newest LCDs I've found have ghosting issues with games. So I was trying to understand how users of LCDs deal with these ghosting issues, in addition to being limited to one native resolution.

Some of you swear (rather passionately) that your LCD has no ghosting issues, while others have similar experiences as me even with the newest monitors out there. I would love to have an LCD, but there just seems to be something inherent in the technology that prevents it from being ideal for gaming, in my opinion. ;-)

 

[Schnozzinkobenstein]

Is getting an LCD with dead pixels still a problem? I ask because I can't buy LCDs any place near where I live, so I'd have to order one over the internet (where you can't test before you buy).

 

[w00t]

I am saying to you since i was drunk lol at my aunts that:
lcd's dont ghost its motion blur
crt's are still better for gaming and cheaper

 

[Googer]

things I do not like about LCD-
Motion Blur
Naitive Resolution (Battlefield 2 does not play well at 1600*1200 on a 9700 pro)
Poor Colour accuracy

Things I like about LCD
Low Power consumption
and ??????

Things I like about CRT
Accurate Video
Accurate Colour
Ant Resolution is Native to a CRT (My favorite feaure)
Photographs look much more life like.
Cost

Things I dislike about CRT
Heat, my Three 21" monitors makes the room warmer.


That said CRT's outperform LCD in video tests except for general offiice work where space is a premeium.

 

[bigpow]

Switched from an NEC 22" Pro CRT to a cheapy Hyundai L90D+ last year, I'm still wondering why I didn't switch to LCD earlier!

 

[Xyclone]

I have a 19" Viewsonic monitor, and need a good enough reason to upgrade to LCD.

 

[akugami]

If you're noticing heavy motion blur/ghosting on a relatively modern LCD that is not one of those el'cheapo models then I'm not sure you're actually playing a game. Last time I checked with people who do gaming on a decent LCD made within the last couple of years or so, they notice no ghosting when actually playing a game. I know for a fact playing games like HL2, Farcry, CoD2 on my Dell 2001FPW that I don't notice any motion blur whatsoever while actually playing a game.

Don't tell me how the LCD on display at Best Buy or Circuit City or at your friend's house has heavy noticeable motion blur while you were watching a video or watching him play. Until you actually try playing a game on it and seeing how it is for more than 30 seconds you really have no idea how the monitor performs. Sit back with a movie (something like the Matrix) with heavy action scenes and just try to relax and enjoy the movie without specifically looking for motion blur. If you still notice heavy blurring then the monitor is not that good, try a different one. Try playing a game and concentrate on the game as you would normally play it instead of looking for motion blur. I doubt on a good LCD you'll notice any.

As for Googer's pros and cons list, I'd add lack of flickering and perfectly crisp text to the pro column for LCD's. I'd add interference from power fluctuations to the con section in CRT's. My CRT would always get interference (mostly flickering and wavy images) when I turn on the TV or another heavy power sucking device. This isn't the case with LCD's.

 

[solofly]

Originally posted by: marks70
Its seems like everyone and their grandma is buying LCDs nowadays. I agree they are great and superior to CRTs for every day usage such as Internet, word processing, etc. and are a perfect fit for the corporate environment. However, gaming is a different story. Despite claims of under 10ms response times and what have you, every LCD monitor out there simply cannot handle graphic intense games, especially first person shooters. Ghosting and tearing plague LCDs, no matter how fast they are. Yet gamers are buying them in droves.

So my question is, why do gamers buy them? Are you saying you don't experience the symptoms I mentioned above...

In short, Yep!

 

[arcenite]

what limitations?

 

[Schnozzinkobenstein]

Did most of you guys buy your LCDs online or in a store?

 

[Tbirdkid]

googer, time to turn in the 9700 bro. sorry to say, but my 9800 did great but it didnt like playing games at that res and keeping up with the times. the new gpus, are light years ahead of that core bro. I didnt realize it until i got my new card...

 

[Magnulus]

Samsung Synchmaster 930B- what limitations? This thing is beautiful. NVidia graphics cards also scale nicely with DVI. I don't see any problems at all. CRT's suck, time they went the way of the dinosaur. And here in Florida, CRT's are hot in the summer- all that wattage. Save the planet, one monitor at a time.

Oh, and you should buy at a store with a good return policy, and if they offer any warranty on dead pixels, take it. That's the only real downside to LCD's. Fortunately, the trend is for good quality LCD's not to have them at all.

 

[imported_Reck]

there was a guy on here who ah did a comparision of one of those high end dell monitors(i forget which one it was a long time ago) to the NEC FE991 and the nec owned the dell in every single way. you might be able to find the thread if you do a search.

crt>lcd for games

 

[Soubriquet]

its a valid question, as each has pros and cons

I have stuck with CRT after building a few office systems with LCD for family, as I play games, CRT is cheaper (I could afford 21" Dell trinitron recond' for small potatos) and better image, downside it weighs a ton and it emits stuff, however I have decided against a tin foil hat, lol

LCDs look technically swish (what is wrong with that smileys eyeball ???) they are light (weightwise) & space efficient, no emissions or static, but personally I can see them pixelate text and colour as well as the after-image shadowing, they are relatively easily damaged and they have been quite the pricey end of the market.

I use my computer for gaming entertainment and internet access. Gaming requirements modified by cost determine the system I use because internet access is easy to achieve with minimal hardware given the right connection. But I want to add that where I am coming from there is no hard-core to gaming, no cult, no us/them, just entertainment, a fun pastime which benefits from certain hardware, like TV only a lot more interactive. When an LCD/Plasma can match a CRT for image I will consider paying for it, but as it is I have a robust heavy steel frame computer desk and CRT image is better for gaming (and TV) so I cant see why I would want to.

IMHO Its probably not fair to say that LCD adoption is entirely driven by Emperor's / Jones's effects, they do have good qualities. But I think technophiles sometimes buy new stuff just because its interesting and new. You can't knock it because without early adopters the tech industry would not have such an easy ride or advance so rapidly.

But there are times where the early adoption perspective clashes with the gaming priorities and I think this is one of them. Another example is WinXP and its myriad pointless background processes interrupting game processing. Early adopters loved it but many gamers did not. Fortunately the market in monitors is not monopolised so gamers still get a choice in what monitor they use, which is how it should be.

So I guess I am saying that not all the people who appear to be gamers have gamers priorities uppermost, I would guess a proportion are early adopters who use games as a way to check out new technology. Nothing wrong with that but it can get a bit misleading if you take advice from an early adopter when you have primarily gaming priorities.

 

[xanis]

This is just a rant. LCDs are great for games if you get the right one. I bought a 19'' Hyundai B90A and I can play pretty much any fast-paced first-person shooter at around 80fps and I can honestly say that I have never experienced any of the symptoms that you have described. Also, those "symptoms" that you mentioned...I have only seen those in the cheaper, no-name LCDs, not the good brands. Why do gamers buy them? Why not? They offer better image quality than CRTs (in some cases), they're smaller, and they're thin and sleek. I've gamed on several CRTs and LCDs, and I can honestly say that the LCD provided the better experience. In the end though, since both CRT and LCD monitors have their strengths and weaknesses, its really up to the user to decide which one he or she thinks is better.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Googer
things I do not like about LCD-
Motion Blur
Naitive Resolution (Battlefield 2 does not play well at 1600*1200 on a 9700 pro)
Poor Colour accuracy

Things I like about LCD
Low Power consumption
and ??????

Things I like about CRT
Accurate Video
Accurate Colour
Ant Resolution is Native to a CRT (My favorite feaure)
Photographs look much more life like.
Cost

Things I dislike about CRT
Heat, my Three 21" monitors makes the room warmer.

That said CRT's outperform LCD in video tests except for general offiice work where space is a premeium.

Not really...Eizo's ColorEdge series which uses S-IPS panels and 10-bit LED backlights are equal if not a lot better than a shadow mask CRT. NEC also has comparable models. I don't find resolution changing to be an issue personally.

Any resolution is not native to a CRT. A CRT still has a finite number of dots in its shadow mask. The effect with CRTs is blurring, the effect with LCDs is a blurry smeary blockiness. It's like analog zoom vs. digital zoom.

I'd go as far as to say photographs would look a LOT more life-like on a good quality 8-bit LCD panel with a 10-bit LUT and LED backlight than any CRT. Of course, it comes at a premium, but you can not make such a blanket statement in that regard. They are bound to come down in price sooner or later.

Things I like about LCDs:
[*]Color seems more vibrant.
[*]Perfect geometry, perfect text.
[*]Lower power consumption, more desk space.
[*]No flicker or harmful X-radiation. EASIER ON THE EYES.
[*]You don't have to risk your life to adjust the focus/sharpness.

I dislike the blue tinge of colors from the common CCFL (fluorescent backlight), but any of Eizo's great ColorEdge monitors will fix that problem too. Only thing left to dislike is response time, but overdriven S-PVAs are here and soon color filters will be gone delivering a further 3x reduction in response time and better colors.

 

[CDC Mail Guy]

More room on the desk to eat my nachos!

 

[marks70]

Originally posted by: CDC Mail Guy
More room on the desk to eat my nachos!

Nice!

As mentioned in a previous response, for those that keep claiming I haven't tried a good monitor, and therefore have no basis for my claims, I have tried the ViewSonic VP191B (Link), which is supposed to be an awesome gaming monitor. Well, it went back because of the issues I mentioned.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: marks70

Originally posted by: CDC Mail Guy
More room on the desk to eat my nachos!

Nice!

As mentioned in a previous response, for those that keep claiming I haven't tried a good monitor, and therefore have no basis for my claims, I have tried the ViewSonic VP191B (Link), which is supposed to be an awesome gaming monitor. Well, it went back because of the issues I mentioned.

TBH, I wouldn't get Viewsonic for LCD. My BENQ has held up great, maybe try it out? FP91G+

 

[MercenaryForHire]

So in conclusion, you're just a hypersensitive perfectionist?

Games, movies, and text all look fine on my wide LCD.

- M4H

 

[OzzieGT]

I might notice ghosting when I am looking for it, but when I am immersed in the game I don't notice it. It's really a non issue. The only issue that I really have with my LCD is it doesn't have very good contrast in darkness. Of course I have a 3 year old NEC 1760v.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: OzzieGT
I might notice ghosting when I am looking for it, but when I am immersed in the game I don't notice it. It's really a non issue. The only issue that I really have with my LCD is it doesn't have very good contrast in darkness. Of course I have a 3 year old NEC 1760v.

If anything, ghosting is natural to our brains, or at least should be. Turn real fast in real life and tell me if you see EVERYTHING in detail. Most of us probably just tune it out because it's what we expect.

 

[imported_Gimli]

Originally posted by: marks70
Its seems like everyone and their grandma is buying LCDs nowadays. I agree they are great and superior to CRTs for every day usage such as Internet, word processing, etc. and are a perfect fit for the corporate environment. However, gaming is a different story. Despite claims of under 10ms response times and what have you, every LCD monitor out there simply cannot handle graphic intense games, especially first person shooters. Ghosting and tearing plague LCDs, no matter how fast they are. Yet gamers are buying them in droves.

You stated that you didn't want a flame war yet this thread is starting to get long,long, long and yet you make a statement declaring it true without any proof? Doesn't make sense to me, I like my LCD and notice no ghosting while playing FEAR, COD2 or FAR CRY 64.