Gang Members in the Military

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: ValkyrieofHouston

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: ValkyrieofHouston

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Criminals forced to join the military is probably not a good idea. Most people associate the military with discipline, but it doesn't matter what you go through if you're already rotten inside

they should be driving the supply trucks. like the contractors in iraq. not armed, no armor. and getting killed.

It is my understanding that if you have a criminal record they will not take you in the military.

Yes and no. Some types of convictions prevent you from joining. It is possible to get in if you have maybe one conviction for a lesser crime. If you have a long conviction history it probably is not going to happen. I have met (and train with) many people in the Army with criminal records. All of them long ago turned their lives around.

Wow, thanks for sharing... what part of the military are you in may I ask? and what type of training do you do?

USAR, and you would need to be more specific. Training can include any kind of training there is (Basic, AIT, reserve training, ECT, etc).

 

[ValkyrieofHouston]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: ValkyrieofHouston

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: ValkyrieofHouston

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Criminals forced to join the military is probably not a good idea. Most people associate the military with discipline, but it doesn't matter what you go through if you're already rotten inside

they should be driving the supply trucks. like the contractors in iraq. not armed, no armor. and getting killed.

It is my understanding that if you have a criminal record they will not take you in the military.

Yes and no. Some types of convictions prevent you from joining. It is possible to get in if you have maybe one conviction for a lesser crime. If you have a long conviction history it probably is not going to happen. I have met (and train with) many people in the Army with criminal records. All of them long ago turned their lives around.

Wow, thanks for sharing... what part of the military are you in may I ask? and what type of training do you do?

USAR, and you would need to be more specific. Training can include any kind of training there is (Basic, AIT, reserve training, ECT, etc).

I have very very limited knowledge on this stuff, but you can tell me. I'm very curious. If someone has say, several misdemeanors, or one misdemeanor... and they are a gang member then you are saying the military will except them? What if you have a convicted felon? Are all branches of the military the same in this regard (as far as their requirements to be accepted)? Or are they different?

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: ValkyrieofHouston

Originally posted by: Twista
Wow, this is really sick. Should the military do better background checks before letting people serve?

Is this a repost?.


http://www.militaryspot.com/videos/video72.htm

Omfg..! what is the military doing about this? Don't they have some sort of screening, or some type of procedure to weed these *ssholes out?
This is really scary...

Edit: We are training our own little home grown terrorists right here in America..

OMG OMG OMG OMG. Get a clue.

First off, the "tactics" shown in the video are those anyone could learn in an hour or two. They are not even using advanced tactics. And I know the Army does a pretty decent job of screening people during BCT. No matter what happens, they will get in. Perhaps you would prefer we just disband the military.

Ahahaha, the only reason they get in is because the military is streteched so thin, the military is depserate recruits... so desperate they'll even recruit autistic children and people who have known drug problems (and they even help them pass drug tests)

The military is in need of recruits and they have lowered their standards. This does not mean they have done away with them. There are too many chances for a person to be kicked out before they finish training if they have major problems.

1) Recruiters
2) MEPS (initial signup)
3) MEPS (travel)
4) BCT medical examinations
5) Drill Seargents - This being the most important part. A DS is not going to let an autistic oerson in. Drill seargents are the best of the best and they reflect that. If a DS believes a person is not able to cut it, that person will not be in the military much longer.

 

[fitzov]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: ValkyrieofHouston

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Criminals forced to join the military is probably not a good idea. Most people associate the military with discipline, but it doesn't matter what you go through if you're already rotten inside

they should be driving the supply trucks. like the contractors in iraq. not armed, no armor. and getting killed.

It is my understanding that if you have a criminal record they will not take you in the military.

Yes and no. Some types of convictions prevent you from joining. It is possible to get in if you have maybe one conviction for a lesser crime. If you have a long conviction history it probably is not going to happen. I have met (and train with) many people in the Army with criminal records. All of them long ago turned their lives around.

The trick is that the DA can drop the charges. They may have commited serious crimes, but because they are being given a chance by joing the military these will never appear on their record. I'm somewhat sceptical of the idea that joining the military will make a criminal into a legit person, and I also think having an all-volunteer army means that we shouldn't be coercing would-be criminals into the ranks.

 

[ValkyrieofHouston]

Originally posted by: fitzov

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: ValkyrieofHouston

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Criminals forced to join the military is probably not a good idea. Most people associate the military with discipline, but it doesn't matter what you go through if you're already rotten inside

they should be driving the supply trucks. like the contractors in iraq. not armed, no armor. and getting killed.

It is my understanding that if you have a criminal record they will not take you in the military.

Yes and no. Some types of convictions prevent you from joining. It is possible to get in if you have maybe one conviction for a lesser crime. If you have a long conviction history it probably is not going to happen. I have met (and train with) many people in the Army with criminal records. All of them long ago turned their lives around.

The trick is that the DA can drop the charges. They may have commited serious crimes, but because they are being given a chance by joing the military these will never appear on their record. I'm somewhat sceptical of the idea that joining the military will make a criminal into a legit person, and I also think having an all-volunteer army means that we shouldn't be coercing would-be criminals into the ranks.

Ok, here is where I am getting confused... you are saying that if someone has already been convicted of a crime, and then decides to join the military that the military and the military's DA can make a decision to drop or seal the civilian charges and then accept this person?? What if they are a convicted felon??

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: ValkyrieofHouston
I have very very limited knowledge on this stuff, but you can tell me. I'm very curious. If someone has say, several misdemeanors, or one misdemeanor... and they are a gang member then you are saying the military will except them? What if you have a convicted felon? Are all branches of the military the same in this regard (as far as their requirements to be accepted)? Or are they different?

All branches are not the same. The standards are a bit lower for the Army/Marines because those branches are further behind on recruiting goals. I say a bit lower, not a lot lower. The military may accept someone with convictions, it depends on the convictions and the circumstances. As I mentioned above, the military would not allow anyone in with major problems (and this includes attitude problems). They would never finish training (and you are not "in" until you finish training. Now the recruiters are also going to be familiar with the area they are recruiting in. If a guy comes into a recruiters offfice in northern Wisconsin with a few tatoos, the recruiter will not be concerned as long as they are within regulations. That same person waling into an office in LA will be scruitinized more for that.

 

[ValkyrieofHouston]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: ValkyrieofHouston

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: ValkyrieofHouston

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: ValkyrieofHouston

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Criminals forced to join the military is probably not a good idea. Most people associate the military with discipline, but it doesn't matter what you go through if you're already rotten inside

they should be driving the supply trucks. like the contractors in iraq. not armed, no armor. and getting killed.

It is my understanding that if you have a criminal record they will not take you in the military.

Yes and no. Some types of convictions prevent you from joining. It is possible to get in if you have maybe one conviction for a lesser crime. If you have a long conviction history it probably is not going to happen. I have met (and train with) many people in the Army with criminal records. All of them long ago turned their lives around.

Wow, thanks for sharing... what part of the military are you in may I ask? and what type of training do you do?

USAR, and you would need to be more specific. Training can include any kind of training there is (Basic, AIT, reserve training, ECT, etc).

I have very very limited knowledge on this stuff, but you can tell me. I'm very curious. If someone has say, several misdemeanors, or one misdemeanor... and they are a gang member then you are saying the military will except them? What if you have a convicted felon? Are all branches of the military the same in this regard (as far as their requirements to be accepted)? Or are they different?

All branches are not the same. The standards are a bit lower for the Army/Marines because those branches are further behind on recruiting goals. I say a bit lower, not a lot lower. The military may accept someone with convictions, it depends on the convictions and the circumstances. As I mentioned above, the military would not allow anyone in with major problems (and this includes attitude problems). They would never finish training (and you are not "in" until you finish training. Now the recruiters are also going to be familiar with the area they are recruiting in. If a guy comes into a recruiters offfice in northern Wisconsin with a few tatoos, the recruiter will not be concerned as long as they are within regulations. That same person waling into an office in LA will be scruitinized more for that.

Ahhh I see, so there lies the problem then. After watching that video, and after what you are telling me, maybe the military needs to reconsider their standards on acceptance. Just based on what you have posted they could possibly do a better job of weeding out people like the guy in that video, and the gangsters in that club.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: ValkyrieofHouston
Ahhh I see, so there lies the problem then. After watching that video, and after what you are telling me, maybe the military needs to reconsider their standards on acceptance. Just based on what you have posted they could possibly do a better job of weeding out people like the guy in that video, and the gangsters in that club.

Possibly. The problem with raising the standards is that it would not actually fix the problem. The number of people in the military with some kind of conviction is probably significant. If we were to say prevent anyone with a conviction from joining it would block a lot of people that would like to join. The vast majority of those joining with convictions are good people. By good people I mean people that I trust with my life without the slightest bit of hesitation. (The best analogy I can think of is that it would be like trying to take out one guy in a crowd with a mortar. Sure, it would work, but at what cost? Is it worth it then?) Keep in mind that of all the gang members trying to get in, probably only a tiny fraction actually make it past the screening process. The only thing I can think of that would further reduce the numbers is to take a harder stance on gang association both during recruitment and once they are in. It isn't always easy to tell who is a gang member.

 

[ValkyrieofHouston]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: ValkyrieofHouston

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: ValkyrieofHouston

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: ValkyrieofHouston

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: ValkyrieofHouston

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Criminals forced to join the military is probably not a good idea. Most people associate the military with discipline, but it doesn't matter what you go through if you're already rotten inside

they should be driving the supply trucks. like the contractors in iraq. not armed, no armor. and getting killed.

It is my understanding that if you have a criminal record they will not take you in the military.

Yes and no. Some types of convictions prevent you from joining. It is possible to get in if you have maybe one conviction for a lesser crime. If you have a long conviction history it probably is not going to happen. I have met (and train with) many people in the Army with criminal records. All of them long ago turned their lives around.

Wow, thanks for sharing... what part of the military are you in may I ask? and what type of training do you do?

USAR, and you would need to be more specific. Training can include any kind of training there is (Basic, AIT, reserve training, ECT, etc).

I have very very limited knowledge on this stuff, but you can tell me. I'm very curious. If someone has say, several misdemeanors, or one misdemeanor... and they are a gang member then you are saying the military will except them? What if you have a convicted felon? Are all branches of the military the same in this regard (as far as their requirements to be accepted)? Or are they different?

All branches are not the same. The standards are a bit lower for the Army/Marines because those branches are further behind on recruiting goals. I say a bit lower, not a lot lower. The military may accept someone with convictions, it depends on the convictions and the circumstances. As I mentioned above, the military would not allow anyone in with major problems (and this includes attitude problems). They would never finish training (and you are not "in" until you finish training. Now the recruiters are also going to be familiar with the area they are recruiting in. If a guy comes into a recruiters offfice in northern Wisconsin with a few tatoos, the recruiter will not be concerned as long as they are within regulations. That same person waling into an office in LA will be scruitinized more for that.

Ahhh I see, so there lies the problem then. After watching that video, and after what you are telling me, maybe the military needs to reconsider their standards on acceptance. Just based on what you have posted they could possibly do a better job of weeding out people like the guy in that video, and the gangsters in that club.

Possibly. The problem with raising the standards is that it would not actually fix the problem. The number of people in the military with some kind of conviction is probably significant. If we were to say prevent anyone with a conviction from joining it would block a lot of people that would like to join. The vast majority of those joining with convictions are good people. By good people I mean people that I trust with my life without the slightest bit of hesitation. (The best analogy I can think of is that it would be like trying to take out one guy in a crowd with a mortar. Sure, it would work, but at what cost? Is it worth it then?) Keep in mind that of all the gang members trying to get in, probably only a tiny fraction actually make it past the screening process. The only thing I can think of that would further reduce the numbers is to take a harder stance on gang association both during recruitment and once they are in. It isn't always easy to tell who is a gang member.

I certainly understand your statement above and concur. I don't believe that everyone who has had a conviction of some type is necessarily a bad person, just someone who made a bad decision at one point in their life.

I do think though after having watched this video and hearing the gangster who is currently in the marines now, (they blanked out his face and hid his identity during the interview) it is very obvious these gang members do not hide who they are in the military. They even show their gang tattoos. That to me means that the military needs to take some further steps to prevent guys like the one in the video, and those in the club from getting in. Examples; look closer at their tats, do they have gang related tats? Look at their criminal records, is it gang related? Ask them point blank if they are affiliated with any gangs... things like that. Make it real clear if they are caught making gang signs, having gang paraphernalia, or found out at any time to be apart of a gang they are booted out.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: ValkyrieofHouston

I do think though after having watched this video and hearing the gangster who is currently in the marines now, (they blanked out his face and hid his identity during the interview) it is very obvious these gang members do not hide who they are in the military. They even show their gang tattoos. That to me means that the military needs to take some further steps to prevent guys like the one in the video, and those in the club from getting in. Examples; look closer at their tats, do they have gang related tats? Look at their criminal records, is it gang related? Ask them point blank if they are affiliated with any gangs... things like that. Make it real clear if they are caught making gang signs, having gang paraphernalia, or found out at any time to be apart of a gang they are booted out.

I agree. Unfortunately I do not believe there is really a mechanism in place to handle people showing signs of gang activity after they join. If it were up to me, anyone caught flashing gang signs would get a dishonorable discharge, but it isn't. That issue has more to do with the military legal system (completely seperate from the civilian system).

Also note from the video that the entire thing was sensationalist. The "tactics" shown there are not anything that doesn't come naturally in a firefight (use cover/terrain to your advantage). The only tactics that the military teaches (vs reinforces) are tactice involving 2+ individuals which are generally only useful when you have an objective that requires you to move closer to it (such as how to effectively use a squad sized element to advance 100 yards under hostile fire).

 

[jtusa]

"Slicing the pie" is far from being a tactic you have to learn in the military. Play a video game every once in awhile. Taking cover while shooting? Common sense. And chargind during the attack I think would be more drug induced than military training. I'm not going to say his military training didn't help, but it seems to me the report is a little over the top about this.

 

[fitzov]

Ok, here is where I am getting confused... you are saying that if someone has already been convicted of a crime, and then decides to join the military that the military and the military's DA can make a decision to drop or seal the civilian charges and then accept this person?? What if they are a convicted felon??

No, not already convicted--charged. The DA or judge can make deals so that the alleged criminal--who would otherwise be convicted--will not be convicted.