Gas giant planetary fact:

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Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: MetalStorm
Yes, at the moment electrolysis is used to gain hydrogen from water, however when fusion is practicle, that will no longer be a problem at all. That's what I'm waiting for anyway!

Also the density of the liquid surface can be anything it wants, the fact is that you will easily be able to float on it, as I've said before you just have to displace the same amount of liquid as your weight and there you go, you float.


except that due to the low density of liquid hydrogen, the volume of liquid you would have to displace to be equal to your weight would be greater than the volume of your boat. Especially since at the surface, jupiters gravity is like 2.4 times that of earth.

I've thought about this for like, 2 whole minutes, and I can't decide for sure, but... Isn't the value of G (sort of) irrelevant? What determines if the boat floats or not is the relative density of the boat and the liquid, right? So G could be 0.01 or 100, as long as our boat maintains structural integrity. Unless I'm missing something.

And I think you could make a boat for liquid methane or hydrogen or whatever. A blimp is essentially a boat for gaseous nitrogen, which has a lower density than liquid hydrogen.
 

sao123

Lifer
May 27, 2002
12,651
203
106
Originally posted by: Gibsons
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: MetalStorm
Yes, at the moment electrolysis is used to gain hydrogen from water, however when fusion is practicle, that will no longer be a problem at all. That's what I'm waiting for anyway!

Also the density of the liquid surface can be anything it wants, the fact is that you will easily be able to float on it, as I've said before you just have to displace the same amount of liquid as your weight and there you go, you float.


except that due to the low density of liquid hydrogen, the volume of liquid you would have to displace to be equal to your weight would be greater than the volume of your boat. Especially since at the surface, jupiters gravity is like 2.4 times that of earth.

I've thought about this for like, 2 whole minutes, and I can't decide for sure, but... Isn't the value of G (sort of) irrelevant? What determines if the boat floats or not is the relative density of the boat and the liquid, right? So G could be 0.01 or 100, as long as our boat maintains structural integrity. Unless I'm missing something.

And I think you could make a boat for liquid methane or hydrogen or whatever. A blimp is essentially a boat for gaseous nitrogen, which has a lower density than liquid hydrogen.


The first thing i was hinting at would be this...
the density of the atmosphere / liquid surface will vary by depth in the gravity, and thus the weight of everything above (pressure at sea level versus pressure aloft). But since it is a mass equation, i do not know if this actually has any cause-effect relaionship with bouyancy because i dont hve the equation in front of me.

what i am having conceptuallizing is the following... literally thinking of a boat.
a) a solid material, with a density of less than liquid hydrogen. Especially one which could house a human habital bioshpere (IE cockpit etc), and have a total mass density per unit area still less than the liquid hydrogen.
Earth example... a boat will float on water. but will the same boat float with a D9 dozer inside it. (the mass density becomes too great to float with the added cargo)

b)A blimp is a neat design... but again... how much mass will a blimp float above liquid hydrogen? Now maybe a zero density pressured vacuum blimp? I wonder if that could work...
 
Dec 28, 2005
37
0
0
Depends on if your going on weight, instead of mass.. Weight is a function of gravity, so, yes, it would matter, but mass doesnt differ between planets or the gravitational pull. The displacement would have to be equal to or less than(?) the mass of the boat/objects in the boat.
 

oxid

Junior Member
Dec 20, 2005
20
0
0
the question is - why would we want to make a boat that floats there?
the temperature and pressure are WAY too extreme, you can't make a self-sustaining habitat on jupiter or any other of the gas giants due to the abscence of oxygen. the only reasons gas giants are handy is because they have alot of hydrogen up for grabs, the only thing to consider is transport.
a better proposition would be to colonize one of the gas giant's moons that have more oxygen. wether it is bonded or not. just a silicate rock planet or something, you can get oxygen out of sand with the right tools
to get the hydrogen up to the planet, you just make regular pick-up flights at the gas giants atmosphere.

and I think that we are not too far from being able to...
just think: there are already prototypes of ion engines that van travel very fast, so getting there and transporting stuff there won't be hard. also, we can break the escape velocity by using those engines, and those engines rely on helium ions, and since helium is around there plenty, the harvesting ships might be able to sustain themselves. if we can generate water and oxygen on the colonies, only food needs to be imported. energy is around in plenty too - fusion from the helium and hydrogen there.
the advantage is an almost unlimited supply of hydrogen and helium, and since helium is actually all you need to power ion engines, I think it's economically viable to use one of the gas giants as a hydrogen and helium mine. and we won't never even have to get to the liquid part of the damn gas giant. however, it would be interesting to throw in a reinforced ball of some sort of ultra strong material, with really thick walls and put somebody in it, and just drop it. I wonder if the ball could sustain the pressure so that the passenger lives when the ball hits the liquid ocean.
 

AluminumStudios

Senior member
Sep 7, 2001
628
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
btw at 3600F wouldnt hydrogen burn?

Nothing is going to burn when there's no oxygen. At worst the hydrogen will loose its electrons (which I think it does in Jupiter.)
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
166
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
Originally posted by: AluminumStudios
Originally posted by: Genx87
btw at 3600F wouldnt hydrogen burn?

Nothing is going to burn when there's no oxygen. At worst the hydrogen will loose its electrons (which I think it does in Jupiter.)

I still remember my high school AP Chem teacher saying that... then she shrugged her shoulders and said, well, except methane in an atmosphere of ... and I don't recall what it was. But, it wasn't oxygen.
 

sao123

Lifer
May 27, 2002
12,651
203
106
An educated guess would provide a list of several nitrogen or sulfer based compound reactions.

Some potential compunds come to mind... tho much review of oxidatio nchemistry would have to be done to determine if these are reactants or products.

HNO3
H2SO4
SO2
NO3
H2S
PH3
NH3
 
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