Gas Prices -- What would it take to get you out of your SUV?

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: CyberDuckHi BigPete, im not an American, but i might be one of those who sometimes complain about some americans lack of decency. Its not about what one can afford and one cannot afford, its a question of moral. There is a limited ammount of resorces on the planet, and when someone single drive around in a suburban he is clearly wasting the common resources of the planet as a whole and should be in my view looked down upon. In my country he is taxed through his nose so the country gets back more than he squanders. He may stupidly continue his wasteful life if he so chooses, but at least fewer will misuse resources this way.

Gotta love it, highlighted the most offensive part. Who in the hell decides whats moral in this case? Look, the bulk of the bitching is done without all the facts. Just because you see a single occupant in a SUV does not mean its a waste. You are not privy to what that SUV is used for on a daily basis.

he is clearly wasting the common resources

Get real. What resource? Tell you what, what if this suburban driver plants trees for carbon credits? Does that somehow make it all ok? Huh? A misuse of gasoline resources would be to buy it and dump it on the street.

You can't even put a definition on it except by coming up with exaggerated examples. What are the limits in your holier-than-thou world for gasoline consumption? Whats worse, the guy with the expedition who drives 8 miles to work or the guy with the civic who drives 40? Suddenly your Civic driver is burning more gas than the expedition driver! CALL THE RESOURCE POLICE!

Idiots.

Look, if you want to use a resource then pay for it. They pay for their use, you pay for yours. Quit trying to place your selfish and baseless restricitons on others. I am quite sure that someone else can come along and pin your tail to the wall for all the ways you waste their resources.

Heck, your starting to turn it into a religion.

(anyone who picks on suvs in this argument is just plain ignorant, there are many cars which are popular which get the same or worse mileage)

 

[CyberDuck]

Sorry to disturb you, did I hit a point?

Being immoral in this case is wasting resources purely because you feel like wasting them. If you drive 100 miles in a SUV and use 10 gallons while someone with a reasonable car drives the same distance and use only 5 gallons, those 5 gallons are wasted, gone forever. Oil, if you don't know it has taken nature millions of years to produce, and it is not renewable. There's not an unlimited supply of oil in the world even if some of you think it is. On top of that is the pollution, but i did not mention that.

As you may know the U.S. has less than 5% of the world population and uses about 25% of the energy. A lot of that energy is wasted, and your lovely SUV's is a part of that problem.

You are right that I?m also wasting resources; everyone in the first world is, some more than others. I know that, and I try to be conscious about it. The biggest problem with me is probably that I fly too much on vacation trips, as airplane travel is much to cheap given the consequences.


Regards

Jostein

Edit: Since you seem offended by attack on SUV's you can exchange the word for any car that uses more fuel or other resources than necessary

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: CyberDuck
Sorry to disturb you, did I hit a point?

Being immoral in this case is wasting resources purely because you feel like wasting them.

Last I checked those weren't your resources.

 

[BigPete]

Originally posted by: CyberDuck
Edit: Since you seem offended by attack on SUV's you can exchange the word for any car that uses more fuel or other resources than necessary

I don't think we are so much offended by your "attack on SUV's" as much as we're surprised that you feel other people shouldn't drive gas guzzlers so you can feel better about yourself.

Screw that. You're saying that instead of driving a nice big 4x4 I should trade down to a tin can for the sake of the people. I work for what I have and I work very hard. Are you from some communist country or something? Why is it so immoral for me to enjoy the fruits of my labor?

What you're saying stinks of communism. Some people should have to suffer for everyone's benefit. I don't think so, pal. Maybe in whatever country your from but not here and there would be another Civil War if anyone tried to pull any ****** like that and not just regarding oil.

Maybe you should embrace capitalism. Start your own oil company, grow it large enough to where you can control most of the oil or gas(as seems to be your real point) and then you can do whatever you want with it. Maybe you can purchase all the oil reserves? It seems like you have a problem that you want OTHER people to fix. I don't think that's going to happen.

 

[CyberDuck]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Last I checked those weren't your resources.

How did you check that?

I dont think you got the point..

Completely beside the point like you: my country exports about 1 billion barrels of oil each year for a population of about 4 .5 mill. people. That would be about 220 barrels pr person / year. Since the oil industry is partly state owned i would guess my part of that export would be maybe 100 barrels a year. So maybe its my resources?

Regards

Jostein

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: kurt454
I love my 2007 Silverado. I don't work out of my truck, but I race a Drag Car for a hobby. It has to be towed to the track. I am not going to give up my lifestyle because someone else says I have to drive a Honda Civic.

No, you have to move closer to work and ride a bicycle according to the resident pundits.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: kurt454
I love my 2007 Silverado. I don't work out of my truck, but I race a Drag Car for a hobby. It has to be towed to the track. I am not going to give up my lifestyle because someone else says I have to drive a Honda Civic.

No, you have to move closer to work and ride a bicycle according to the resident pundits.

He doesn't HAVE to, it would just be a good idea if he did. I live within 5 miles of my work and ride my bicycle there frequently during the warmer (and drier) months. It's called walking your talk, Dave.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: CyberDuck

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Last I checked those weren't your resources.

How did you check that?

I dont think you got the point..

Completely beside the point like you: my country exports about 1 billion barrels of oil each year for a population of about 4 .5 mill. people. That would be about 220 barrels pr person / year. Since the oil industry is partly state owned i would guess my part of that export would be maybe 100 barrels a year. So maybe its my resources?

Regards

Jostein

We buy and pay for what we use. Thus it's us wasting our own resources. If you don't like it, refuse to sell it to us.

 

[CyberDuck]

Originally posted by: BigPete
I don't think we are so much offended by your "attack on SUV's" as much as we're surprised that you feel other people shouldn't drive gas guzzlers so you can feel better about yourself.

Screw that. You're saying that instead of driving a nice big 4x4 I should trade down to a tin can for the sake of the people. I work for what I have and I work very hard. Are you from some communist country or something? Why is it so immoral for me to enjoy the fruits of my labor?

What you're saying stinks of communism. Some people should have to suffer for everyone's benefit. I don't think so, pal. Maybe in whatever country your from but not here and there would be another Civil War if anyone tried to pull any ****** like that and not just regarding oil.

Maybe you should embrace capitalism. Start your own oil company, grow it large enough to where you can control most of the oil or gas(as seems to be your real point) and then you can do whatever you want with it. Maybe you can purchase all the oil reserves? It seems like you have a problem that you want OTHER people to fix. I don't think that's going to happen.

BigPete: If trying to get people to conserve energy for the mankind to prosper is "communist" then im a communist. I can not understand whats bad about trying to get people to be more sensible. Do you really feel that wasting energy is sort of "god given right" that americans have? Why is not driving the most energy wasting vehicles considered "suffering"? I simply don't get it.

You soon enough have to convert to smaller vehicles when the oil runs out, by not adopting the americans puts themself and their industry irrelevant in the future.

But by all means, do as you like. Im not driving a SUV and im not suffering. Our country is prospering on selling oil to other countrys, and our pension fund is made out of oil money. We don't have anything to loose anyway because we are over the top when it comes to oil production. So are probably most other contries, and the demand will only rise further when contries like china and india start driving SUV's to.

Regards

Jostein

 

[Vic]

ALL resources are limited. Scarcity is the reason why economics exist in the first place.

 

[BigPete]

Originally posted by: CyberDuck

Originally posted by: BigPete
I don't think we are so much offended by your "attack on SUV's" as much as we're surprised that you feel other people shouldn't drive gas guzzlers so you can feel better about yourself.

Screw that. You're saying that instead of driving a nice big 4x4 I should trade down to a tin can for the sake of the people. I work for what I have and I work very hard. Are you from some communist country or something? Why is it so immoral for me to enjoy the fruits of my labor?

What you're saying stinks of communism. Some people should have to suffer for everyone's benefit. I don't think so, pal. Maybe in whatever country your from but not here and there would be another Civil War if anyone tried to pull any ****** like that and not just regarding oil.

Maybe you should embrace capitalism. Start your own oil company, grow it large enough to where you can control most of the oil or gas(as seems to be your real point) and then you can do whatever you want with it. Maybe you can purchase all the oil reserves? It seems like you have a problem that you want OTHER people to fix. I don't think that's going to happen.

BigPete: If trying to get people to conserve energy for the mankind to prosper is "communist" then im a communist.

I don't really care if you want to try and get people to conserve energy. I think it's great if you do. But why is it immoral for someone to drive a big car?

Really, this is all matter of opinion and so it's not an argument that either of us can win. Wasting energy or anything else really is a god given right that everyone has. In this country I can go do McDonalds and buy 20 cheeseburgers then throw them right in the trash on my way out if I want. That's both a waste of money and food. Is it immoral? No, why would it be? Is it stupid? Absolutely. I just watered my back lawn and now I'm doing the front. The water will probably go for a while longer than it needs to, are you going to start a thread about people wasting water? Is that immoral too? I am arguing something silly with you and wasting my time. Where is the wasting time thread?

I don't care how high and mighty you think you are. Everyone on this planets wastes something at some point in their lives. Maybe the people who drive those SUV's are more aware of protecting other resources. Maybe the guy with that huge SUV doesn't waste as much water as you do? In the end it all balances out.

No matter what though, I don't think it's fair for you to call someone immoral because of what they drive.

And just for the record I drive a 4-cylinder Mazda 6 w/ manual transmission.

 

[CyberDuck]

Originally posted by: BigPete

I don't really care if you want to try and get people to conserve energy. I think it's great if you do. But why is it immoral for someone to drive a big car?

Well, it might not be immoral in your country yet to drive a big car. It's probably not really immoral generally in my country either, some would think so, others not. The definition of morality i use here is simply general rules in society dictating what is considered right or wrong although not necessary illegal. Of course it?s not immoral always to drive a big car, it depends on the circumstances.

But I would argue that

a) Most people consider it wrong to waste perfectly usable things, like for instance fuel or water for that matter if water is a limited resource.
b) Doing what most people consider wrong is bad moral.

So driving a wasteful car is immoral if other meaningful options exist. I do not believe that all driving of SUV's and other energy inefficient vehicles in the U.S is necessary and lack other better options.


Regards

Jostein

 

[kurt454]

I know people who sold their gas guzzlers, and switched to more fuel efficient cars. They ended up driving around more often. They went more miles, but burned the same amount of gas as before. The reasoning was that they could now afford to go more places. A lot of these idealogies sound great on paper, but reality is something else.

 

[BoomerD]

When people start throwing around terms like "morally right", I get squeaminsh...they are going to try to shove THEIR "values" down my throat...doesn't matter what the subject is, once "MORALS" are mentioned, the conversation usually goes down hill.
You may believe that SUV's are bad...so, the proper thing is not to own one...I believe buying things made in China is bad, so I go out of my way (and often greater expense) to buy things Made in the U.S.A. when I can. I COULD claim that it's "MORALLY RIGHT" to support American workers, instead of Chinese workers, (since after all, they aren't Americans), but then, I'm trying to shove MY "values" down YOUR throat...(and since most of you ONLY care about how much you pay for an item, I'd be wasting my time anyway!)

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Meh, I wasn't even commenting on the possibility of coca leaves in Coke. It's unlikely, but since the recipe is a closely guarded secret, who knows.

I was merely pointing out that I find it odd that anybody who claims to be have studied science at one of the world's finest universities refers to a mass spectometer as an "extremely sensitive machine." Do you think Einstein referred to Fat Man and Little Boy as "those big metal blowy uppy things?"

Edit: BTW, we all known Coke used to contain cocaine but I see nothing more than speculation that it still contains coca leaves. None of your links say anything definitive.

Don't apologize. The story that Coca-Cola gets their coca leaves from Stepan (which is approved by the DEA to supply coca to the pharmaceuticals) is a typical urban legend among the internet socialist crowd. Here's a typical example of their tinfoil beanie logic. Cliff notes: Daddy Bush is the Great Satan and Coca-Cola is the CIA's grand conspiracy to hook the world on cocaine. It's a great read!

The only thing that pisses me off about that kind of garbage is that the socialist tinfoil beanie babies that write it dare call themselves liberals, and try to trick the politically naive into believing that that kind of nonsense is actually liberalism!

And note that in the following post to yours, he insults you (through implication) by claiming that mass spectrometers aren't in his scientific field, but he had had absolutely no trouble at all countering proven economic theories to me earlier in this thread. :roll:

Here's a tip for marin: mechanical engineers aren't scientists.

I said that coca cola uses coca leaves for flavoring and gave you links. I never claimed it contained cocaine, nor did I bring up the Great Satan or GWB. You really need to get off of the pipe.
Your "proven" economic theories are just that, theories. When GWB was pushing his tax cuts, his highly-educated team of economic advisors assured us that there were tax surpluses as far as the eye could see, but whoops, it quickly turned to deficits.
If these highly-educated economists can be so wrong about the economy, why would I believe anything a libertarian know nothing internet poster who claims he is an economist.
And here's another clue, engineers are scientists, there is no debate about the lift of an airplane wing among engineers, while economists can argue completely opposite results from some action on the economy. Economics is a soft science.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: BigPete

Originally posted by: CyberDuck

Originally posted by: BigPete
I don't think we are so much offended by your "attack on SUV's" as much as we're surprised that you feel other people shouldn't drive gas guzzlers so you can feel better about yourself.

Screw that. You're saying that instead of driving a nice big 4x4 I should trade down to a tin can for the sake of the people. I work for what I have and I work very hard. Are you from some communist country or something? Why is it so immoral for me to enjoy the fruits of my labor?

What you're saying stinks of communism. Some people should have to suffer for everyone's benefit. I don't think so, pal. Maybe in whatever country your from but not here and there would be another Civil War if anyone tried to pull any ****** like that and not just regarding oil.

Maybe you should embrace capitalism. Start your own oil company, grow it large enough to where you can control most of the oil or gas(as seems to be your real point) and then you can do whatever you want with it. Maybe you can purchase all the oil reserves? It seems like you have a problem that you want OTHER people to fix. I don't think that's going to happen.

BigPete: If trying to get people to conserve energy for the mankind to prosper is "communist" then im a communist.

I don't really care if you want to try and get people to conserve energy. I think it's great if you do. But why is it immoral for someone to drive a big car?

Really, this is all matter of opinion and so it's not an argument that either of us can win. Wasting energy or anything else really is a god given right that everyone has. In this country I can go do McDonalds and buy 20 cheeseburgers then throw them right in the trash on my way out if I want. That's both a waste of money and food. Is it immoral? No, why would it be?

It's immoral in my book because they're are people starving to death in this world.

Is it stupid? Absolutely. I just watered my back lawn and now I'm doing the front. The water will probably go for a while longer than it needs to, are you going to start a thread about people wasting water? Is that immoral too? I am arguing something silly with you and wasting my time. Where is the wasting time thread?

Water is going to be the next thing that there is a shortage of in this country.

I don't care how high and mighty you think you are. Everyone on this planets wastes something at some point in their lives. Maybe the people who drive those SUV's are more aware of protecting other resources. Maybe the guy with that huge SUV doesn't waste as much water as you do? In the end it all balances out.

No matter what though, I don't think it's fair for you to call someone immoral because of what they drive.

And just for the record I drive a 4-cylinder Mazda 6 w/ manual transmission.

You've obviously been raised differently then then I. Waste is too be avoided whenever possible and in my opinion not to attempt to avoid waste is immoral and selfish.

Does everybody waste resources? Of course, we're all guilty but some waste much more then others. The idea is to try to be as efficient in the use of resources as possible. Wasting resources is much more serious then littering, or do you think littering is moral too?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Meh, I wasn't even commenting on the possibility of coca leaves in Coke. It's unlikely, but since the recipe is a closely guarded secret, who knows.

I was merely pointing out that I find it odd that anybody who claims to be have studied science at one of the world's finest universities refers to a mass spectometer as an "extremely sensitive machine." Do you think Einstein referred to Fat Man and Little Boy as "those big metal blowy uppy things?"

Edit: BTW, we all known Coke used to contain cocaine but I see nothing more than speculation that it still contains coca leaves. None of your links say anything definitive.

Don't apologize. The story that Coca-Cola gets their coca leaves from Stepan (which is approved by the DEA to supply coca to the pharmaceuticals) is a typical urban legend among the internet socialist crowd. Here's a typical example of their tinfoil beanie logic. Cliff notes: Daddy Bush is the Great Satan and Coca-Cola is the CIA's grand conspiracy to hook the world on cocaine. It's a great read!

The only thing that pisses me off about that kind of garbage is that the socialist tinfoil beanie babies that write it dare call themselves liberals, and try to trick the politically naive into believing that that kind of nonsense is actually liberalism!

And note that in the following post to yours, he insults you (through implication) by claiming that mass spectrometers aren't in his scientific field, but he had had absolutely no trouble at all countering proven economic theories to me earlier in this thread. :roll:

Here's a tip for marin: mechanical engineers aren't scientists.

I said that coca cola uses coca leaves for flavoring and gave you links. I never claimed it contained cocaine, nor did I bring up the Great Satan or GWB. You really need to get off of the pipe.
Your "proven" economic theories are just that, theories. When GWB was pushing his tax cuts, his highly-educated team of economic advisors assured us that there were tax surpluses as far as the eye could see, but whoops, it quickly turned to deficits.
If these highly-educated economists can be so wrong about the economy, why would I believe anything a libertarian know nothing internet poster who claims he is an economist.
And here's another clue, engineers are scientists, there is no debate about the lift of an airplane wing among engineers, while economists can argue completely opposite results from some action on the economy. Economics is a soft science.

And... back to more partian extremist straw men from you. That never ends does it? You seem to feel the need to prove all your arguments by implying partisan polarization in your opponent. You should know that that only makes you look unintelligent.
But, FYI: I voted against GWB both times, and have strongly opposed all his policies throughout his administration.

BTW, you seem to have a distinct lack of understand what being a scientist entails. Here's yet another tip for you: if you're not researching anything, you're not a scientist. There's no debate about the lift of an airplane wing because the scientific research on that subject was settled decades ago. How 'bout you get a clue, eh?
Not that that's even relevant, you just brought that up as a red herring to distract from your comments to BoberFett apologizing for your own scientific ignorance in one particular field of knowledge while at the same time you feel that you have the right to interfere in my own scientific field of knowledge (so many logical fallacies on your part here that I'm not even sure where to begin, but the final straw of appeal to authority was pretty freakin' golden).

You may now resume your typical superstitious conspiracy theory junk science partisan rhertoric.

edit: BTW, what you're whining about in your first sentence was a textbook perfect example of reductio ad absurbum on my part, not a need for me to "get off of the pipe." I simple demonstrated, factually and with a link directly to a website highly favorable to your particular political ideology, what your Coca-Cola argument looks like when taken to its fullest extent. FYI: this is a form of logical argument intended to show a person how silly their argument looks. Other popular examples of exactly this type of argument are the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the Invisible Pink Unicorn.
I'd say here that you just "completely pwned" yourself, but past experience has shown me that you are too partisan and ideologically blind to be able to recognize simple logic when it is used against you.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Does everybody waste resources? Of course, we're all guilty but some waste much more then others.

You mean like Gore? Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Does everybody waste resources? Of course, we're all guilty but some waste much more then others.

You mean like Gore? Sorry, couldn't resist.

It's a damn big list, I'm sure.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Does everybody waste resources? Of course, we're all guilty but some waste much more then others.

You mean like Gore? Sorry, couldn't resist.

It's a damn big list, I'm sure.

It's a pointless argument. "Waste" is an entirely subjective argument. An opinion at best. All resources are limited, scarcity being the basis of all economics. However, I would agree with many such opinions, but only when granted proper perspective due to complexity inherent to reality.
For example, most would argue that big SUVs are wasteful. But what if you're transporting disadvantaged kids to take part in a sporting event?
And I would certainly agree that private planes are wasteful. But what if it's transporting organs to be transplanted into the desperately ill?
And so on? You want to know what's really wasteful? NASCAR. Just think of it. But you almost never hear anyone complain about energy waste associated with entertainment.

 

[BMW540I6speed]

Meh, the "moral" argument stated when critical of others choice of what they drive is somewhat laughable.

Cars are a part of my economic survival and a big part of my leisure time.

I have 3 BMW's, and 2 of them are "modified" to guzzle more gas than stock.

You would have to pry them from my cold dead hands.



If you can't afford gas. Some budgeting of your life is in order. if you can't afford gas and you own a gas "guzzler" - sell it.

If you can't afford gas and you buy a gas "guzzler" for non business or family use. "stupidity" is the better term.

I need a truck for various use. I have a 06 Toyota Tacoma as my daily driver (20 mpg hwy). Could have bought a big V8, but the Toyota fit's my needs just fine.

Am I concerned about riseing gas prices - yes. Am I in a "lather" about it - No

Am I concerned about oil co.s making record profits - yes. Am I in a "lather" about it - No

All I can do is keep track of which oil co.s are useing these profits for added infrastructure and alternitive feul research and buy my gas accordingly from proactive companys.

 

[Enig101]

Originally posted by: BigPete
I don't think we are so much offended by your "attack on SUV's" as much as we're surprised that you feel other people shouldn't drive gas guzzlers so you can feel better about yourself.

Screw that. You're saying that instead of driving a nice big 4x4 I should trade down to a tin can for the sake of the people. I work for what I have and I work very hard. Are you from some communist country or something? Why is it so immoral for me to enjoy the fruits of my labor?

What you're saying stinks of communism. Some people should have to suffer for everyone's benefit. I don't think so, pal. Maybe in whatever country your from but not here and there would be another Civil War if anyone tried to pull any ****** like that and not just regarding oil.

The fact that you consider driving a fuel-efficient car "suffering" is humorous. I would say it benefits everyone, including yourself and your children. Democracy is a balance between individual freedom and the good of the many. The problem here is that many people do not realise just how bad what they are doing is for society as a whole, I think.

Immoral? Maybe not. However, it is foolish to suggest that polluting the earth is your right. I would personally like it if your "freedom" didn't screw up my planet.

Originally posted by: BigPete
I don't care how high and mighty you think you are. Everyone on this planets wastes something at some point in their lives. Maybe the people who drive those SUV's are more aware of protecting other resources. Maybe the guy with that huge SUV doesn't waste as much water as you do? In the end it all balances out.

You have a point. There are other sources of pollution and waste. However, it is more accurate to say that it all adds up. "Making up" for driving a fuel-inefficient car is ridiculous.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Does everybody waste resources? Of course, we're all guilty but some waste much more then others.

You mean like Gore? Sorry, couldn't resist.

It's a damn big list, I'm sure.

It's a pointless argument. "Waste" is an entirely subjective argument. An opinion at best. All resources are limited, scarcity being the basis of all economics. However, I would agree with many such opinions, but only when granted proper perspective due to complexity inherent to reality.
For example, most would argue that big SUVs are wasteful. But what if you're transporting disadvantaged kids to take part in a sporting event?
And I would certainly agree that private planes are wasteful. But what if it's transporting organs to be transplanted into the desperately ill?
And so on? You want to know what's really wasteful? NASCAR. Just think of it. But you almost never hear anyone complain about energy waste associated with entertainment.

Just as one man's junk is another man's treasure, yes waste is subjective. What one considers wasteful depends entirely upon how they was rasied, what their likes and dislikes are, and their income.

However, we still waste a lot of resources. If you drive a Humvee 40,000 miles/year on nothing but flat, oiled roads then you might be guilty of wasting resources just to massage your ego.

 

[rbV5]

True or false: Large SUVs and light trucks use more gas than passenger cars?

I'd say false. Large SUV's and light trucks are likely a much smaller percentage of total number of automobiles with the exception of some regional areas. They are typically driven shorter distances as well. I'd be guessing, but passenger cars probably consume by a large margin more gas overall annually than all the large SUV's and light trucks put together.

quote:

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This forum is filled with energy wasters and obviously you yourself didn't get the "lifer" tag without spending a fair deal of time wasting electricity, cruising deal forums and posting here, as well as contributing to the environmental damaged caused by the computer industry itself.
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Thats awful white of you, considering you're a "lifer" too. Hypocrite.

So, you're a racist and a hypocrite? You're the one blasting SUV owners, not me. Just seems a bit ironic.

quote:

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Those who yell loudest generally have the most to hide, so I'll assume you're in no better position to play the judgement card than the rest of you SUV hypocrites.
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Do you actually have a point? Or are you simply here to divert from the real issues at hand? You can attack me all you want and it still won't change the facts.

:

Of course I have a point. My life experience has shown me that the folks that yell the loudest from their soapbox, or behave in the most judgemental fashion, generally have the biggest skeletons in the closet. They themslves wouldn't fare well under the same scrutiny they reserve for others.

People like that don't want to know the "facts", they just need a marketing rally point like "SUV" the rest they can make up for themselves.

Here's some of my vehicle use facts;

*I work 12 hour shifts reducing my commutes to 7 days every 14 days instead of the normal 10.
*My commute to work is a grand total of 2.5 miles, mostly rural highway.
*I often bike to work, sometimes for months on end.
*I drive my more fuel efficient Tiburon 1/3 of the time.
*I have a family of 5, camp outdoors regularly and pull a trailer full of gear.
*I drive over the mountain passes in the winter to visit the coast to the West and snowboard to the East.

My SUV is a good choice for me, I like it and it's comfortable.

 

[BigPete]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
You've obviously been raised differently then then I. Waste is too be avoided whenever possible and in my opinion not to attempt to avoid waste is immoral and selfish.

Does everybody waste resources? Of course, we're all guilty but some waste much more then others. The idea is to try to be as efficient in the use of resources as possible. Wasting resources is much more serious then littering, or do you think littering is moral too?

I don't think we were raised very differently at all. I was raised to not be wasteful because my parents were (and still are) very hardworking people. Some of the things I was raised with include turning off lights when you leave a room, don't leave water running, etc. We were raised this way because my parents didn't want to spend the money on unnecessary bills.

As I said, I have no issues with anyone trying to conserve resources. I do have an issue with you and anyone else labeling others as "immoral" because of what they choose to drive. I still can't understand how driving and SUV or whatever automatically makes you
"immoral". WTF?

As far as littering goes, I never brought that up and I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. I'll respond anyway. People who litter are trashy and those are the people who truly don't care about anyone else. I have no respect for people who litter and I think the world would be a better place without them. I'm not even talking about the people who throw their gum wrapper or banana peel out the window. I'm talking about the assholes who throw entire bags (think McDonalds, Burger King) out the window. People who litter and people who drive SUVs have nothing in common as far as I'm concerned.