Gay Jews kicked out of pride parade

[IronWing]

<sigh>

 

[agent00f]

Nazis...

In German, Nationalsozialismus...

Translation: National Socialism

Socialism

Socialism

Socialism

Socialism

"were right wing germans [sic]"...

Makes sense.

It makes sense for people who aren't entirely informed by conservative media written for the lowest iq/edu audience. You must also think the People's Democratic Republic of Korea is so very liberal.

 

[Moonbeam]

I would change "right" to "role," as ideologically charged as this subforum is, the sentence might end up misconstrued. But otherwise, a good take. Identifying problems is always the easy part, isn't it?

Role would be much better.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Nazis...

In German, Nationalsozialismus...

Translation: National Socialism

Socialism

Socialism

Socialism

Socialism

"were right wing germans [sic]"...

Makes sense.

Read a history book or 2 or 100 or 1000.

 

[MrPickins]

So a pride event based around freedom and personal liberty has a problem with a national flag that represents a place where apartheid is in effect?

Wow. Go figure.

Maybe with the slow motion trainwreck in DC running on so much dishonesty and hypocrisy lately, seeing intellectual consistency really has become alarming to some?

It wasn't an Israeli flag, though. It was a rainbow flag with a Star of David.

I really disagree with the promoters here. It's a case of a few snowflakes getting their undies in a bunch and demanding that their unreasonable feelings be accommodated.

For a community that has dealt with so many issues with intolerance, this is a bit hypocritical.

 

[Moonbeam]

It wasn't an Israeli flag, though. It was a rainbow flag with a Star of David.

I really disagree with the promoters here. It's a case of a few snowflakes getting their undies in a bunch and demanding that their unreasonable feelings be accommodated.

For a community that has dealt with so many issues with intolerance, this is a bit hypocritical.

It may be hypocritical but it's totally to be expected. Has it ever occurred to you to have a white pride parade. It hasn't to me because I never learned or heard that I should hate or feel inferior because of my skin color. I would suggest therefore that to hole a pride parade of any kind is to admit you still suffer from damaged pride and feel a need to repair it, a need that is totally irrational because there is pride and it's opposite shame and total indifference where neither of those exist.. Imagine being proud of having a freckle on your spleen. Wherever there is a false need to feel pride because feelings of inferiority have been repressed, there is hate for those who made you feel that way and hate for any who focus on some other issue. Inferiority is the hidden face of pride and pride is ego. Ego is hideous emotional need.

 

[Atreus21]

So a pride event based around freedom and personal liberty has a problem with a national flag that represents a place where apartheid is in effect?

Wow. Go figure.

Maybe with the slow motion trainwreck in DC running on so much dishonesty and hypocrisy lately, seeing intellectual consistency really has become alarming to some?

Sorry, but anyone who says that Israel practices apartheid either doesn't know what apartheid was or is a complete moron. Or both.

 

[IronWing]

Sorry, but anyone who says that Israel practices apartheid either doesn't know what apartheid was or is a complete moron. Or both.

Israel practices apartheid.

 

[Moonbeam]

Israel practices apartheid.

What can you do? Look at the US. If we didn't put up obstacles in the way of minority votes or gerrymander the hell out of congressional districts, we would have a liberal government in America. Are you telling me that a Christian America and a Jewish Israel isn't God's plan?

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

It may be hypocritical but it's totally to be expected. Has it ever occurred to you to have a white pride parade. It hasn't to me because I never learned or heard that I should hate or feel inferior because of my skin color. I would suggest therefore that to hole a pride parade of any kind is to admit you still suffer from damaged pride and feel a need to repair it, a need that is totally irrational because there is pride and it's opposite shame and total indifference where neither of those exist.. Imagine being proud of having a freckle on your spleen. Wherever there is a false need to feel pride because feelings of inferiority have been repressed, there is hate for those who made you feel that way and hate for any who focus on some other issue. Inferiority is the hidden face of pride and pride is ego. Ego is hideous emotional need.

You...really, really do not understand what Pride is about, do you? It's not for pride the way most people think of the word. It's more of a Defiance Parade if anything. "We're here, we're queer, get used to it" should probably be rendered "We're here, we're queer, and we're not going anywhere no matter what you bastards do to us."

Moonbeam, really, you are showing yourself to be both amazingly ignorant and incredibly self-centered with that one. Please, try and put yourself in their shoes. A little historical context--start with the Stonewall Riots--will do you a lot of good.

 

[kage69]

It wasn't an Israeli flag, though. It was a rainbow flag with a Star of David.

My mistake, but I'm not sure it matters much in this context. There is only one Jewish state, and like it or not they can be quite intolerant regarding race, religion and human rights.

If Israel were a bastion of ecumenical respect and liberty, sans apartheid, and there was no real reason to exclude the marchers but they were anyway? Then I'd agree someone was being hypocritical and not intellectually consistent. Short of that, this of smacks of the very worn out and lame "Intolerance of bigotry is intolerance!"

 

[Atreus21]

Israel practices apartheid.

Prove that.

 

[IronWing]

Prove that.

Can Palestinians under Israeli control (Gaza and the West Bank) freely travel throughout the rest of Israel? Vote in Israeli elections? Can Palestinian children under Israeli control attend school with the other children of Israel? It's an apartheid state.

 

[kage69]

Sorry, but anyone who says that Israel practices apartheid either doesn't know what apartheid was or is a complete moron. Or both.

I agree, you are quite sorry, but I'm going to indulge your usual blather here:

Systemic domination and oppression of one ethnic group by a different ethnic group within a country should be referred to as what exactly, in your book?

Anyone who can look at the West Bank, where Israelis live under civil law while Palestinians live under martial law, and say there is no apartheid either doesn't know what apartheid is or is a complete moron. Or both.

 

[Atreus21]

Can Palestinians under Israeli control (Gaza and the West Bank) freely travel throughout the the rest of Israel? Vote in Israeli elections? Can Palestinian children under Israeli control attend school with the other children of Israel? It's an apartheid state.

Systemic domination and oppression of one ethnic group by a different ethnic group within a country should be referred to as what exactly, in your book?

Anyone who can look at the West Bank, where Israelis live under civil law while Palestinians live under martial law, and say there is no apartheid either doesn't know what apartheid is or is a complete moron. Or both.

Israel is home to nearly 2 million arabs. They have exactly the same rights as any other Israeli citizen. Voting, holding public office, etc. Arabs in Israel are freer than Arabs in any other Arab country.

Palestinians are not citizens of Israel. The Gaza strip is ruled by a terrorist organization, and that same terrorist organization holds considerable influence in the West Bank. Do you suppose its reasonable that Palestinians, being (1) not Israeli citizens and (2) under the authority of a terrorist organization, might not enjoy all the freedoms that Israeli citizens do?

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4953648,00.html

And what about the claim that Israel is an apartheid state?

“The Red Cross was very familiar with the regime that prevailed in South Africa during the apartheid period, and we are responding to all those who raise their claim of apartheid against Israel: No, there is no apartheid here, no regime of superiority of race, of denial of basic human rights to a group of people because of their alleged racial inferiority. There is a bloody national conflict, whose most prominent and tragic characteristic is its continuation over the years, decades-long, and there is a state of occupation. Not apartheid.”

 

[IronWing]

Gaza and the West Bank are ultimately controlled by Israel. Israel calls the shot and is the responsible state. Israel chose the Bantustan model of apartheid for its Palestinian subjects.

 

[agent00f]

It wasn't an Israeli flag, though. It was a rainbow flag with a Star of David.

I really disagree with the promoters here. It's a case of a few snowflakes getting their undies in a bunch and demanding that their unreasonable feelings be accommodated.

For a community that has dealt with so many issues with intolerance, this is a bit hypocritical.

A while back you were carrying water for Hayabusa Rider about he's not at all conservative despite the "fair and balanced" attitude. Now it's pretty easy to see why.

It may be hypocritical but it's totally to be expected. Has it ever occurred to you to have a white pride parade. It hasn't to me because I never learned or heard that I should hate or feel inferior because of my skin color. I would suggest therefore that to hole a pride parade of any kind is to admit you still suffer from damaged pride and feel a need to repair it, a need that is totally irrational because there is pride and it's opposite shame and total indifference where neither of those exist.. Imagine being proud of having a freckle on your spleen. Wherever there is a false need to feel pride because feelings of inferiority have been repressed, there is hate for those who made you feel that way and hate for any who focus on some other issue. Inferiority is the hidden face of pride and pride is ego. Ego is hideous emotional need.

Your friends in the confederacy and reich had pride parades all the time despite a place atop the social totem of their era. Of course their chief apologist would then claim that's only because they were the Real victims and if only the jews and blacks weren't so mean they wouldn't have had it coming.

 

[agent00f]

Sorry, but anyone who says that Israel practices apartheid either doesn't know what apartheid was or is a complete moron. Or both.

Israel is home to nearly 2 million arabs. They have exactly the same rights as any other Israeli citizen. Voting, holding public office, etc. Arabs in Israel are freer than Arabs in any other Arab country.

Palestinians are not citizens of Israel. The Gaza strip is ruled by a terrorist organization, and that same terrorist organization holds considerable influence in the West Bank. Do you suppose its reasonable that Palestinians, being (1) not Israeli citizens and (2) under the authority of a terrorist organization, might not enjoy all the freedoms that Israeli citizens do?

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4953648,00.html

It's just a matter of fact that Israel is completely oppressive against Palestinians, using the guise of "fighting terrorism" much as the US did in iraq or Putin in Chechnya/etc. No great mystery why complete degenerates identify and support such degeneracy, same as they might sons of the confederacy and so on.

 

[MrPickins]

A while back you were carrying water for Hayabusa Rider about he's not at all conservative despite the "fair and balanced" attitude. Now it's pretty easy to see why.

Be clear about what you're implying.

Also, keep in mind that, although I am anti-zionist and extremely pro-LGBT, I retain the ability to think for myself.

 

[agent00f]

Be clear about what you're insinuating.

Also, keep in mind that, although I am anti-zionist and extremely pro-LGBT, I retain the ability to think for myself.

I don't think you're too dumb to see that's exactly what @Hayabusa Rider would say right before reciting something from the fair and balanced network.

 

[MrPickins]

My mistake, but I'm not sure it matters much in this context. There is only one Jewish state, and like it or not they can be quite intolerant regarding race, religion and human rights.

If Israel were a bastion of ecumenical respect and liberty, sans apartheid, and there was no real reason to exclude the marchers but they were anyway? Then I'd agree someone was being hypocritical and not intellectually consistent. Short of that, this of smacks of the very worn out and lame "Intolerance of bigotry is intolerance!"

I won't say that I'm an expert on the Jewish people, but my understanding is that many of them are not zionists or supporters of Israel, so simply displaying a Star of David should not be construed that way.

(Yes, I know these ladies were pro-Israel, but from what I've read, that was only brought out of them by questioning from the promoters.)

 

[MrPickins]

I don't think you're too dumb to see that's exactly what @Hayabusa Rider would say right before reciting something from the fair and balanced network.

Again, be clear.

If you're insinuating I'm a closet conservative, you're sorely mistaken.

 

[agent00f]

I won't say that I'm an expert on the Jewish people, but my understanding is that many of them are not zionists or supporters of Israel, so simply displaying a Star of David should not be construed that way.

(Yes, I know these ladies were pro-Israel, but from what I've read, that was only brought out of them by questioning from the promoters.)

Again, be clear.

If you're insinuating I'm a closet conservative, you're sorely mistaken.

I would think a liberal would actually consider statements and evidence from the organizers instead of just self-proclaiming to be fair and balanced:

http://chicagoist.com/2017/06/27/dyke_march_women_asked_to_leave_it.php

 

[kinev]

Read a history book or 2 or 100 or 1000.

Always willing to learn! Thanks for the recommendat...wait. Oh, I guess you didn't provide any evidence and just relied on a personal attack implying I was uneducated. Of course, I wouldn't stoop to such childish name calling, so I'll provide a reading list:



Wagener, O. (1985). Hitler—Memoirs of a Confidant, ed. Henry Ashby Turner Jr., trans. Ruth Hein.

Hitler: "After all, that’s exactly why we call ourselves National Socialists! We want to start by implementing socialism in our nation among our Volk! It is not until the individual nations are socialist that they can address themselves to international socialism."

Hitler: "But we National Socialists wish precisely to attract all socialists, even the Communists; we wish to win them over from their international camp to the national one"

Wireless. (1925, November 28).Hitlerite Riot in Berlin: Beer Glasses Fly When Speaker Compares Hitler to Lenin. The New York Times.

Goebbels: "Lenin is the greatest man, second only to Hitler, and that the difference between Communism and the Hitler faith is very slight."

Breiting, R., & Hitler, A. (1971). Secret conversations with Hitler: the two newly-discovered 1931 interviews. John Day Co..

Hitler: "To put it quite clearly: we have an economic programme. Point No. 13 in that programme demands the nationalisation of all public companies, in other words socialisation, or what is known here as socialism. … the basic principle of my Party’s economic programme should be made perfectly clear and that is the principle of authority… the good of the community takes priority over that of the individual. But the State should retain control; every owner should feel himself to be an agent of the State; it is his duty not to misuse his possessions to the detriment of the State or the interests of his fellow countrymen. That is the overriding point. The Third Reich will always retain the right to control property owners. If you say that the bourgeoisie is tearing its hair over the question of private property, that does not affect me in the least. Does the bourgeoisie expect some consideration from me?… Today’s bourgeoisie is rotten to the core; it has no ideals any more; all it wants to do is earn money and so it does me what damage it can. The bourgeois press does me damage too and would like to consign me and my movement to the devil."

"Why Are We Anti-Semites?" Translated from Vierteljahrshefte für Zeitgeschichte, 16. Jahrg., 4. H. (Oct., 1968), pp. 390-420. Edited by Carolyn Yeager.

Hitler: "Socialism as the final concept of duty, the ethical duty of work, not just for oneself but also for one’s fellow man’s sake, and above all the principle: Common good before own good, a struggle against all parasitism and especially against easy and unearned income."

Hitler: "Since we are socialists, we must necessarily also be antisemites because we want to fight against the very opposite: materialism and mammonism [the greedy pursuit of riches; I had to look it up]"

Hitler: "Because it seems inseparable from the social idea and we do not believe that there could ever exist a state with lasting inner health if it is not built on internal social justice, and so we have joined forces with this knowledge."

Temin, P. (1991). Nazi Economics: Ideology, Theory, and Policy. Business History Review, 65(4), 1023.

Hitler: "What matters is to emphasize the fundamental idea in my party's economic program clearly; the idea of authority. I want the authority; I want everyone to keep the property he has acquired for himself according to the principle: ‍'‍Benefit to the community precedes benefit to the individual.‍'‍ But the state should retain supervision and each property owner should consider himself appointed by the state. It is his duty not to use his property against the interests of others among his own people. This is the crucial matter. The Third Reich will always retain its right to control the owners of property."

Klemperer, V. (2016). I Will Bear Witness, Volume 2: A Diary of the Nazi Years: 1942-1945. Modern Library.

Goebbels: "We and we alone [the Nazis] have the best social welfare measures. Everything is done for the nation."

Lemmons, R. (2015). Goebbels and Der Angriff. University Press of Kentucky.

Goebbels: "The NSDAP is the German Left. We despise bourgeois nationalism.

Goebbels, J., & Schweitzer, H. (1929). Die verfluchten Hakenkreuzler: etwas zum Nachdenken. Eher.

Geobbels: "The people's community must not be a mere phrase, but a revolutionary achievement following from the radical carrying out of the basic life needs of the working class. A ruthless battle against corruption! A war against exploitation, freedom for the workers! The elimination of all economic-capitalist influences on national policy. Maintaining a rotten economic system has nothing to do with nationalism, which is an affirmation of the Fatherland."

Now, I am NOT saying that the modern left = Nazism. But, by reading their own words, it is clear that the National Socialists did, indeed, adhere to some of the tenants of socialism. So simply dismissing it as a semantic argument in nomenclature is ignoring that influence.

 

[MrPickins]

I would think a liberal would actually consider statements and evidence from the organizers instead of just self-proclaiming to be fair and balanced:

http://chicagoist.com/2017/06/27/dyke_march_women_asked_to_leave_it.php

LOL, I'm not a liberal either.

I know you've only been here a year, but if you look at my post history all the way back to the beginning of the G.W.B. administration, you'll find that I'm a centrist who often leans left due to some of my pet issues (LGBT and women's rights, specifically).

As for the article, that does contain more information than I originally had (and I read several sources yesterday). If what the promoters say is true, and they were actively promoting Zionism, then my opinion would be different.

As it is, though, it's one group's word against another's. With no other evidence, I'm inclined to disregard the whole thing.