Gay Jews kicked out of pride parade

[woolfe9998]

Have you not been paying attention? The "liberals" are the *real* fascists/nazis.

Yeah I've been listening. I learned the important lesson that the Nazis were socialists because Hitler and Goebbels said so. The Nazi regime was not only socialist, but quite humane as well. Goebbels said so many times so it must be true. And to think, all this time, I've been relying on all the wrong sources.

 

[Moonbeam]

Given the similarity of Trump's rhetoric to the right wing populist rhetoric of fascist regimes, I'd say this is getting to be more and more difficult by the day.

Yeah I've been listening. I learned the important lesson that the Nazis were socialists because Hitler and Goebbels said so. The Nazi regime as not only socialist, but quite human as well. Goebbels said so many times so it must be true. And to think, all this time, I've been relying on all the wrong sources.

I admire your optimism. What I hear in the latter tells me the former may not actually be happening. I'd say that the growth of the modern American conservative brain defect makes an altered Nazi reality easier by the day.

I think it's worth considering something AH said and I have said off and on for ages: Now I know why this will never happen: the fundagelicals in the US want to start Armageddon, and for that to happen they need Israel right where it is.

Terror of the return of Satan brings him closer every day because we create what we fear. This is something that ordinary people cannot and will not understand, that opposites are actually only different faces of the same thing, that it is only an experience of unity at a higher level of consciousness that puts that duality to bed. Duality is belief in the good that is based of a fear of evil. There is no good or evil. There is only the perfection of being. There is only tears for all who have lost their being and tears always bring deep compassion. On the side of duality there is only the crucifixion of others, the need to drag them down to suffer, much like what I see agent tries to do to someone like Hay, in whom I personally see a real flowering of love.

We kick others because we hurt but it will not cure our pain. It only makes it worse.

 

[Moonbeam]

Have you not been paying attention? The "liberals" are the *real* fascists/nazis.

Indeed, what would you call somebody who is trying to destroy God? Are you yourself anxious to see that every time you fight one of His battles, any of those battles for the Good, you do so to escape your own personal hell? Who will let go of the Good and see that perfection is all that their is. Imagine, perfection isn't the enemy of the good, it is good and evil that are the enemy of perfection.

The warrior is he who walks into the battle field with no armor at all because it is only one's armor and not the true self that can take any damage.

 

[Moonbeam]

The Palestinians were the ones who used to live in Israel until they were pushed out with the war, and then some of them tried to fight for being treated like shit in their ghetto. The alternative is to submit completely and suffered the same fate as various natives elsewhere, or the jews previously. I suppose there are pros and cons to each, since fighting always draws some disdain.

Well well. Did I hear a frog go plop? Nice.

 

[agent00f]

Here's an idea:

Step 1) create the Jewish homeland in the American southwest. We get Israel's people, knowledge, technology (and we are going to need the desalinization stuff soon...) etc, the rest of the Middle East can have the one chunk of land in the region with no oil under it, and everyone's happy.

...Step 2) Immediately afterwards, switch off oil and natgas as much as possible, and let the Middle East sink into obscurity all alone.

Step 3) There is no step 3

Step 4) profit!

Now I know why this will never happen: the fundagelicals in the US want to start Armageddon, and for that to happen they need Israel right where it is.

That relationship is absolutely bizarre. Bible thumpers want there to be an israel so it can be destroyed (hey, just like the conservative muslims) to precipitate meeting their maker. Over half of americans claim to believe this. Of course the israelis aren't ones to let such rich opportunity pass by and their tourist bureau gave away end-times trips to any evangelical minister who wanted a vacation to the holy land. A win-win for all parties involved.

 

[agent00f]

Still wounded I see. You and FIVR can get together and rub your little hands together and go tee hee hee while everyone looks at you like an idiot.

Back in the trash pile for you.

Ahhhhh, so we start with the "you should read more" argument and then when presented with ample evidence contradicting your erroneous opinion, we move on to the "I'm right because I said so" line of reasoning while ignoring said evidence (and ironically not reading it) and presenting none of your own.

Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

Indeed, what would you call somebody who is trying to destroy God? Are you yourself anxious to see that every time you fight one of His battles, any of those battles for the Good, you do so to escape your own personal hell? Who will let go of the Good and see that perfection is all that their is. Imagine, perfection isn't the enemy of the good, it is good and evil that are the enemy of perfection.

The warrior is he who walks into the battle field with no armor at all because it is only one's armor and not the true self that can take any damage.

Well well. Did I hear a frog go plop? Nice.

You lot should try to figure out who's the smartest among you; don't forget to include those colleagues in the gop base.

 

[zinfamous]

that's fucked up.

Hey, at least those gay leftists didn't kill the gay jews. rightest gays would have murdered the jewish gays that they didn't like.

 

[zinfamous]

The left are hypocrites just as much as the right.

I don't see them stopping America's imperialist policies. I don't see them stopping the mega corporations from growing even more. I could go on and on but it doesn't matter.

Both sides are totally empty and worthless.

yes, both sides.

yes, "just as."

sure, buddy.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

Indeed, what would you call somebody who is trying to destroy God? Are you yourself anxious to see that every time you fight one of His battles, any of those battles for the Good, you do so to escape your own personal hell? Who will let go of the Good and see that perfection is all that their is. Imagine, perfection isn't the enemy of the good, it is good and evil that are the enemy of perfection.

The warrior is he who walks into the battle field with no armor at all because it is only one's armor and not the true self that can take any damage.

Out of curiosity, @Moonbeam, what do you think God is? I really hope you don't think it's an actual personal, egoic being. You use a lot of Christian symbolism, and as someone who's put over a decade of study into this stuff I can tell you the Christian God is a jumped-up Canaanite (Ugaritic, specifically) deity, not even the top of the pantheon at that. Heck, he's actually the syncretism of two old ANE gods, El and Yahweh.

 

[Moonbeam]

You lot should try to figure out who's the smartest among you; don't forget to include those colleagues in the gop base.

Out of curiosity, @Moonbeam, what do you think God is? I really hope you don't think it's an actual personal, egoic being. You use a lot of Christian symbolism, and as someone who's put over a decade of study into this stuff I can tell you the Christian God is a jumped-up Canaanite (Ugaritic, specifically) deity, not even the top of the pantheon at that. Heck, he's actually the syncretism of two old ANE gods, El and Yahweh.

God is the Tao. If I gave Him a name it wouldn't be His. But............I can point as best I am able to as that's all I can do.

For me God is a word people who have had a particular psychological experience, one I sometimes refer to as awakening, decided to use to encode psychological information for the transmission into their culture and to future generations triggering devices that can provoke such an awakening in others. These include such things as ethical habits that promote positive mental attitudes, stories that parallel or analogize certain psychological processes, generally speaking then, wisdom for the ages, foundational shared information that other people who are awake can use to teach. But as soon as the original source of such light expires from the scene, everything goes sideways and is used by the egos of people who sleep, but not all of it because the original insights were real. However, time changes cultures and the nature of human blindness mutates.

Today people have many many good reasons to be anti religious. I wouldn't be surprised if people who know something aren't teaching it through banking or some other endeavor somewhere. Anyway.........

So for me then, because on my own very very limited personal experience, I would say that God is a conscious state, an inner experience that causes me to get a good night's sleep and maybe for somebody like Mohamed to have the entire Koran revealed in the time it took for a pitcher of water or some such thing to spill.

My sense is that a religion is for a time and a place and a people, a culture that is communally blind, that is to say, suffers from a common dominate concealed prejudice or assumption about reality. I think, in the case of Jesus, his mission was to tell the Jews they had fallen asleep under the assumption they could get to heaven, experience a God conscious state, simply by obedience to the Law. We know it isn't the letter but the spirit that counts. God is always found in a living psychological understanding, not in a mechanical state. That, I think, is what is meant by the kingdom of heaven is with us. That also tells us there is nothing to do, nowhere to go, nothing to become. It's all and has always been there. God isn't in heaven or on a cloud somewhere. He is here within us. He is what we are as it were. We are his image because we created Him in ours, but not that ours that is our ego, but the one that appears at in a God conscious state.

As Meister Eckhart said, "The eye with which I see God is the same eye with which He sees me.

For me, then. God is the joy of being real.

That means also that in my opinion, the god believers believe in and doubters doubt, is a god that does not exist, a god that the ego accepts or rejects depending of ones conditioning, ones hidden concealed prejudice. Both are both right and wrong because the paradox is resolved only at a higher state of consciousness.

 

[agent00f]

God is the Tao. If I gave Him a name it wouldn't be His. But............I can point as best I am able to as that's all I can do.

For me God is a word people who have had a particular psychological experience, one I sometimes refer to as awakening, decided to use to encode psychological information for the transmission into their culture and to future generations triggering devices that can provoke such an awakening in others. These include such things as ethical habits that promote positive mental attitudes, stories that parallel or analogize certain psychological processes, generally speaking then, wisdom for the ages, foundational shared information that other people who are awake can use to teach. But as soon as the original source of such light expires from the scene, everything goes sideways and is used by the egos of people who sleep, but not all of it because the original insights were real. However, time changes cultures and the nature of human blindness mutates.

Today people have many many good reasons to be anti religious. I wouldn't be surprised if people who know something aren't teaching it through banking or some other endeavor somewhere. Anyway.........

So for me then, because on my own very very limited personal experience, I would say that God is a conscious state, an inner experience that causes me to get a good night's sleep and maybe for somebody like Mohamed to have the entire Koran revealed in the time it took for a pitcher of water or some such thing to spill.

My sense is that a religion is for a time and a place and a people, a culture that is communally blind, that is to say, suffers from a common dominate concealed prejudice or assumption about reality. I think, in the case of Jesus, his mission was to tell the Jews they had fallen asleep under the assumption they could get to heaven, experience a God conscious state, simply by obedience to the Law. We know it isn't the letter but the spirit that counts. God is always found in a living psychological understanding, not in a mechanical state. That, I think, is what is meant by the kingdom of heaven is with us. That also tells us there is nothing to do, nowhere to go, nothing to become. It's all and has always been there. God isn't in heaven or on a cloud somewhere. He is here within us. He is what we are as it were. We are his image because we created Him in ours, but not that ours that is our ego, but the one that appears at in a God conscious state.

As Meister Eckhart said, "The eye with which I see God is the same eye with which He sees me.

For me, then. God is the joy of being real.

That means also that in my opinion, the god believers believe in and doubters doubt, is a god that does not exist, a god that the ego accepts or rejects depending of ones conditioning, ones hidden concealed prejudice. Both are both right and wrong because the paradox is resolved only at a higher state of consciousness.

So you found "god" and everyone else who claims the same are the Real enlightened people, self-glorification in humans is never a surprise. This is a story old as time which implies it's an innate reflex not unlike language, presumably because people loyal to each other through this mechanism gain an evolutionary advantage.

We know better now because some smarter people figured out how the world actually works through more sophisticated processes than ego.

 

[J.Wilkins]

If this extends to allowing retributive violence, then two nations that have demonstrated what is at best utter unwillingness to rein in their factions that work to wipe out the other will fight until one is wiped out.

Taking out their ramps and ammunition storages while doing more than any other nation in the world has ever done to avoid civilian casualties is not retribution, it's a means to self defence and it works.

I don't dispute for a second that Hamas is a major problem. What I will dispute is that Palestinians are the only ones who bear responsibility for the current problems. If Israel made a good faith effort to try and rein in the settlers and to avoid collateral damage and retributive violence, I'd be there with you, but they don't. The less bad guy can still be a bad guy.

They do reign in the settlers, there is an entire branch of the police that does nothing else. I would say that all settlements must go, they are illegal settlements by my measure.

It wouldn't change anything though, the stated goal being the complete destruction of Israel and the genocide of the Jewish population doesn't leave any room for negotiations. If the Palestinians start by recognizing Israel's right to exist as a nation that would force negotiations.

 

[agent00f]

Taking out their ramps and ammunition storages while doing more than any other nation in the world has ever done to avoid civilian casualties is not retribution, it's a means to self defence and it works.



They do reign in the settlers, there is an entire branch of the police that does nothing else. I would say that all settlements must go, they are illegal settlements by my measure.

It wouldn't change anything though, the stated goal being the complete destruction of Israel and the genocide of the Jewish population doesn't leave any room for negotiations. If the Palestinians start by recognizing Israel's right to exist as a nation that would force negotiations.

Amusing apologetics when what's called the "wall" is basically a prison. It purposely cuts off essential water and farmland to those on one side, thus ensuring the survival of those within are entirely reliant on Israeli whims. This is the long term right wing strategic position: "if you don't completely submit, we can and will kill you all"; sounds familiar. People with any moral values don't find need to apologize for such things.

 

[crashtech]

Completely submit? How about just stop blowing up your own kids. That would be a good start. Honestly I think the Israelis have shown great restraint in the face of extreme fanaticism. This probably would have been over decades ago if they didn't have their own long history of oppression staying their hand.

 

[agent00f]

Completely submit? How about just stop blowing up your own kids. That would be a good start. Honestly I think the Israelis have shown great restraint in the face of extreme fanaticism. This probably would have been over decades ago if they didn't have their own long history of oppression staying their hand.

Many jewish organizations consider jewish resistance against their oppressors to be heroic. Are they wrong? Or just the chosen people?

 

[kinev]

Tell ya what, call the history department at your nearest university and make appointments to talk to a couple of profs who specialize in modern European history and tell them that you believe that the Nazis were actual socialists. Get back to us with their reactions.

Ha! Still can't provide any support for your point, eh?

I read your series of quotes. To describe Nazism as socialist, you are using a self-identification of the Nazis themselves. Your argument is that the Nazis were socialists because Hitler and Goebbels said so. This was propaganda which was populist rhetoric meant to gain the support of working class Germans. Sure, Goebbels said they had great social welfare programs. Goebbels also said that the Jews caused Germany to lose WWI. Goebbels said a lot of things. Almost none of them were true. You do realize that you've just relied on the most notorious propagandist in human history to argue a factual point about the Nazi party and regime, right? That is probably why his response to you was so dismissive.

The truth is, the Nazis destroyed labor unions shortly after assuming power. They also executed workers for striking. Also, there actually was a socialist party in Germany, called the Social Democrats. Most of them ended up in concentration camps after the Nazis took power.

This is not socialism. It doesn't matter a damn how the Nazis described themselves. It matters what they did while in power.

That's fair. So, we agree that they at least self-identified as socialist. That's a start. So, the next thing we need to do is establish what socialism is. None of your examples are a direct refutation of socialist policies.

How do you define socialism?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Ha! Still can't provide any support for your point, eh?

Have you booked those appointments yet?

 

[woolfe9998]

Ha! Still can't provide any support for your point, eh?




That's fair. So, we agree that they at least self-identified as socialist. That's a start. So, the next thing we need to do is establish what socialism is. None of your examples are a direct refutation of socialist policies.

How do you define socialism?

It's not a well defined term. The most textbook definition is that the government or else the "collective" own the means of production. If you want to adhere to that definition, then no, the Nazis were not socialist because the means of production were still privately owned. Government regulation and a high degree of control could be seen as a proxy for government ownership, but arguably, it wouldn't be socialistic without democracy, because the workers are supposed to ultimately control the means of production, and if you're going to use government ownership or control as a stand in for that, then presumably it must be a democratically elected government. The comparison with the Nazis doesn't hold up here either.

Because there is so much disagreement about how to define socialism, a better method is probably to just look at governments which are commonly thought of as socialist today, and compare them to Nazi Germany. Besides being democracies, these countries do not exclude large swaths of their population from the benefits of the collective. That is fundamentally not "socialistic."

A better comparison where there are at least some partial similarities might be with Bolshevism and other authoritarian forms of socialism, but those have been steadily dying off. Democratic soft socialism is really the norm today, and is totally the norm in the west.

 

[J.Wilkins]

How do you define socialism?

Socialism has to do with governmental regulation of the free market and property.

The Nazi party was not a socialist party at all, they did not have a socialist agenda at all. They were strongly in favour of private ownership and a free market.

The problem is that most people don't realize what socialism is and that the US is more socialist than many other nations they regard as far more socialist simply because with all regulations of all levels of government the US does have a lot of regulation on the free market and property.

 

[crashtech]

Many jewish organizations consider jewish resistance against their oppressors to be heroic. Are they wrong? Or just the chosen people?

Not surprising that you think strapping a bomb to your own kid is heroic. Says a lot about your mindset.

 

[woolfe9998]

Not surprising that you think strapping a bomb to your own kid is heroic. Says a lot about your mindset.

Not to mention his sneering use the term "the chosen people," a favorite among so many degenerate anti-Semitic scumbags. Always watch out for the ones who are so quick to call everyone else a degenerate.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

There sure are a lot of Chosen Peoples, plural, did you ever notice...?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Not to mention his sneering use the term "the chosen people," a favorite among so many degenerate anti-Semitic scumbags. Always watch out for the ones who are so quick to call everyone else a degenerate.

Oddly enough it's central to how Jewish folks see themselves.

"In Judaism, "chosenness" is the belief that the Jewish people were singularly chosen to enter into a covernant with G-d. This idea has been a central one throughout the history of Jewish thought, is deeply rooted in biblical concepts and has been developed in talmudic, philosophic, mystical and contemporary Judaism."

And yes, I'm sure that Agent's calling out of nazis/supremacists is just a cunning ploy to hide his inner nazi.

I get that a lot of folks here don't like the guy and his sledge hammer but you don't need to be silly about it.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You lot should try to figure out who's the smartest among you; don't forget to include those colleagues in the gop base.

Of all of us and you, you aren't it. You are a Trump and this is your little tweet universe where you attack people you don't like with the same malice, intent and ignorance. A powerless minitrump. How cute.

 

[woolfe9998]

Oddly enough it's central to how Jewish folks see themselves.

"In Judaism, "chosenness" is the belief that the Jewish people were singularly chosen to enter into a covernant with G-d. This idea has been a central one throughout the history of Jewish thought, is deeply rooted in biblical concepts and has been developed in talmudic, philosophic, mystical and contemporary Judaism."

And yes, I'm sure that Agent's calling out of nazis/supremacists is just a cunning ploy to hide his inner nazi.

I get that a lot of folks here don't like the guy and his sledge hammer but you don't need to be silly about it.

The sneering use of the term "the chosen people" as a negative reference to Jews, which his reference clearly was, is extremely common amongst anti-semites. I know. I spent years debating holocaust deniers and other assorted anti-semites online. The people I'm talking about are the very same white supremacists that Agent is fond of identifying so many others as. They use the term in exactly the same manner as him. The idea is that the phrase "the chosen people" suggests that the Jews think they are racially superior to everyone else, which is bald faced lie. To be specific, Agent clearly meant that Jews feel their "chosen" status gives them a license to murder. And note that he's betrayed himself for who he thinks the real culprit is. He momentarily dropped using "Zionist" as a codeword for Jews. Oops.

I'm sorry, but Agent is not an admirable human being in any way, shape or form. You shouldn't defend him because he's on the left. Not all leftists deserve defending. Cut him loose.