Gay Marraige

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

I think that it doesn't seem all that plausible for numerous reasons, not the least of which is that there are huge divides within the community -- some of us hate others of us. Our only common link is one single sexual preference.

Religious reasons are pretty much an entire way of living that is common to people, so it seems that it would be fairly easy for those people to "get along". That's not even remotely true in the gay community.

Yeah, you NEVER hear about one Catholic killing another Catholic or one Protestant killing another. And I'm sure ALL Jewish people get along like one big happy family. Lord knows that ALL Muslims get along together famously.

I really don't see WHY a separate country based around sexual orientation isn't a good idea if you all want to change things.

You really don't get it, do you.

I'm not saying that everyone of a particular religion gets along perfectly, but when their "way of life" is generally similar, or at least compatible, I think that there would be a possibility of that happening. That just doesn't apply at *all* to the gay community.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Mai too sense...

From the point of view of the government, a marriage is a contract between two people that affords them a number of governmental benefits, particularly tax-wise.

To deny homosexuals the right to marry their partners would amount to gender descrimination by the government -- the proposed ban would say that Joe is free to enter into a marriage contract with any woman that he likes, but he could not enter into the same contract with Steve because Steve is male. Gender discrimination is unconstitutional, so likewise is a ban on homosexual marriage, therefore.

Of course, the Constitution is never of much concern to the bigotted right-wingers when it comes to their agenda and this issue in particular.

 

[0roo0roo]

yup, gays aren't even human. their way of life is so foreign, they survive on yellow mushrooms mined from the planet zargon.

ah well, back to muslims cutting peoples heads off .. u maybe a dirty jew that i'm going to behead, but atleast you aren't gay!

 

[Brutuskend]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

I think that it doesn't seem all that plausible for numerous reasons, not the least of which is that there are huge divides within the community -- some of us hate others of us. Our only common link is one single sexual preference.

Religious reasons are pretty much an entire way of living that is common to people, so it seems that it would be fairly easy for those people to "get along". That's not even remotely true in the gay community.

Yeah, you NEVER hear about one Catholic killing another Catholic or one Protestant killing another. And I'm sure ALL Jewish people get along like one big happy family. Lord knows that ALL Muslims get along together famously.

I really don't see WHY a separate country based around sexual orientation isn't a good idea if you all want to change things.

You really don't get it, do you.

I'm not saying that everyone of a particular religion gets along perfectly, but when their "way of life" is generally similar, or at least compatible, I think that there would be a possibility of that happening. That just doesn't apply at *all* to the gay community.

No, I guess I don't get it. It seems like a GREAT idea to me. I know after the civil war some ex slaves left this country and started their own country. So this hasn't happened JUST over religious reasons in the past. One BIG thing about the Mormons was that they wanted to have their own marriage laws. In their case the only mistake they made was to stay in a part of America that would eventually become part of the US.

I've thought for YEARS about how great it would be to buy and island somewhere and declare it my own little country. But alas, I'm poor and that will never happen. However if all the people in the world that were gay pitched in, they could probably buy a LARGE part of the former USSR.

But just think! You buy and island and grow pot (Legal there of course since it's YOUR country) and declare it your only national export item. If any other countries don't like it they would have to declare war on you to make you stop. They you surrender and get financial aid for you country from the BIG BOYS.

 

[spaceghost21]

There is no real arguement against gay marriage. Just people who don't want to or can't see things except through their own narrow out look in life. I gave up trying to convince anyone of my view on the matter a long time ago, but I still get wound up whenever someone want to argue about it.

The fact is, 50 years ago in this country, Jim Crow existed, it was the norm. How is discrimation based on race, any different than discrimination based on sexual preference? Any different than discrimination based on religion?

I think, and hope, 50 years from now, people will look back and find it hard to believe gay marriage was once illegal, and that people actively fought against it.

 

[jman19]

Paulney owned the crap out of himself in this thread:

1. Calls for others to have "sources" when stating things, yet his opinions with no hard facts are OK.
2. His one "scientific" study comes from a Focus on the Family web site. Biased much?
3. Couldn't pick up obvious sarcasm and then lashes out on the person who used it.

Next stop for paulney, P&N.

 

[spaceghost21]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

I think that it doesn't seem all that plausible for numerous reasons, not the least of which is that there are huge divides within the community -- some of us hate others of us. Our only common link is one single sexual preference.

Religious reasons are pretty much an entire way of living that is common to people, so it seems that it would be fairly easy for those people to "get along". That's not even remotely true in the gay community.

Yeah, you NEVER hear about one Catholic killing another Catholic or one Protestant killing another. And I'm sure ALL Jewish people get along like one big happy family. Lord knows that ALL Muslims get along together famously.

I really don't see WHY a separate country based around sexual orientation isn't a good idea if you all want to change things.

You really don't get it, do you.

I'm not saying that everyone of a particular religion gets along perfectly, but when their "way of life" is generally similar, or at least compatible, I think that there would be a possibility of that happening. That just doesn't apply at *all* to the gay community.

No, I guess I don't get it. It seems like a GREAT idea to me. I know after the civil war some ex slaves left this country and started their own country. So this hasn't happened JUST over religious reasons in the past. One BIG thing about the Mormons was that they wanted to have their own marriage laws. In their case the only mistake they made was to stay in a part of America that would eventually become part of the US.

I've thought for YEARS about how great it would be to buy and island somewhere and declare it my own little country. But alas, I'm poor and that will never happen. However if all the people in the world that were gay pitched in, they could probably buy a LARGE part of the former USSR.

Why should the gay community not be entitled to the same rights almost every other person born in the United States is?

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

I've thought for YEARS about how great it would be to buy and island somewhere and declare it my own little country. But alas, I'm poor and that will never happen. However if all the people in the world that were gay pitched in, they could probably buy a LARGE part of the former USSR.

Fvck that, let's just take the West Bank. The Palestinians are barely settled in, they wouldn't miss it.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: spaceghost21
There is no real arguement against...Just people who don't want to or can't see things except through their own narrow out look in life...

Do you not see the irony? YOU are one of those people! Just like Oooboo. "If you have any opinion other than mine, you are a bigot!" Forget that neither side's assertions can be scientifically substantiated.

Classic.

 

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
I don't mind it as long as they're not my neighbours and I don't have to see them at work.

Why do those things matter? They're just people.

For one, seeing a couple of men going at it if they happen to leave their blinds open and I happen to take a gander... that could scar me for life.

As for work... well, to put it simply I'd be scared to bend over to pick up a dime.

 

[Brutuskend]

Originally posted by: spaceghost21

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

I think that it doesn't seem all that plausible for numerous reasons, not the least of which is that there are huge divides within the community -- some of us hate others of us. Our only common link is one single sexual preference.

Religious reasons are pretty much an entire way of living that is common to people, so it seems that it would be fairly easy for those people to "get along". That's not even remotely true in the gay community.

Yeah, you NEVER hear about one Catholic killing another Catholic or one Protestant killing another. And I'm sure ALL Jewish people get along like one big happy family. Lord knows that ALL Muslims get along together famously.

I really don't see WHY a separate country based around sexual orientation isn't a good idea if you all want to change things.

You really don't get it, do you.

I'm not saying that everyone of a particular religion gets along perfectly, but when their "way of life" is generally similar, or at least compatible, I think that there would be a possibility of that happening. That just doesn't apply at *all* to the gay community.

No, I guess I don't get it. It seems like a GREAT idea to me. I know after the civil war some ex slaves left this country and started their own country. So this hasn't happened JUST over religious reasons in the past. One BIG thing about the Mormons was that they wanted to have their own marriage laws. In their case the only mistake they made was to stay in a part of America that would eventually become part of the US.

I've thought for YEARS about how great it would be to buy and island somewhere and declare it my own little country. But alas, I'm poor and that will never happen. However if all the people in the world that were gay pitched in, they could probably buy a LARGE part of the former USSR.

Why should the gay community not be entitled to the same rights almost every other person born in the United States is?

Why should Mormons be able to have multiple wives? Because the laws says they can't.

Other countries allow it though.
So.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

I've thought for YEARS about how great it would be to buy and island somewhere and declare it my own little country. But alas, I'm poor and that will never happen. However if all the people in the world that were gay pitched in, they could probably buy a LARGE part of the former USSR.

Fvck that, let's just take the West Bank. The Palestinians are barely settled in, they wouldn't miss it.

Great idea! A Sodomite buffer state between the Arabs and the Jews. If there's one thing they can agree on, its that the gays must be pushed into the sea! Lalalalala!

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

I think that it doesn't seem all that plausible for numerous reasons, not the least of which is that there are huge divides within the community -- some of us hate others of us. Our only common link is one single sexual preference.

Religious reasons are pretty much an entire way of living that is common to people, so it seems that it would be fairly easy for those people to "get along". That's not even remotely true in the gay community.

Yeah, you NEVER hear about one Catholic killing another Catholic or one Protestant killing another. And I'm sure ALL Jewish people get along like one big happy family. Lord knows that ALL Muslims get along together famously.

I really don't see WHY a separate country based around sexual orientation isn't a good idea if you all want to change things.

You really don't get it, do you.

I'm not saying that everyone of a particular religion gets along perfectly, but when their "way of life" is generally similar, or at least compatible, I think that there would be a possibility of that happening. That just doesn't apply at *all* to the gay community.

No, I guess I don't get it. It seems like a GREAT idea to me. I know after the civil war some ex slaves left this country and started their own country. So this hasn't happened JUST over religious reasons in the past. One BIG thing about the Mormons was that they wanted to have their own marriage laws. In their case the only mistake they made was to stay in a part of America that would eventually become part of the US.

I've thought for YEARS about how great it would be to buy and island somewhere and declare it my own little country. But alas, I'm poor and that will never happen. However if all the people in the world that were gay pitched in, they could probably buy a LARGE part of the former USSR.

But just think! You buy and island and grow pot (Legal there of course since it's YOUR country) and declare it your only national export item. If any other countries don't like it they would have to declare war on you to make you stop. They you surrender and get financial aid for you country from the BIG BOYS.

That isolates you from the rest of the world. I don't want to go live on some deserted island. I don't want to live in Europe. I don't want to live in Africa. I want to live in the USA or Canada. There's no reason why we cannot be equal.

OK, let me approach it from a non-religious way: what other group has started their own country or etc that generally has very, very little in common, comprised of very different life styles?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

I've thought for YEARS about how great it would be to buy and island somewhere and declare it my own little country. But alas, I'm poor and that will never happen. However if all the people in the world that were gay pitched in, they could probably buy a LARGE part of the former USSR.

Fvck that, let's just take the West Bank. The Palestinians are barely settled in, they wouldn't miss it.

Fvck that, we'd have to redraw all the maps of the US and reprint all those textbooks. Think of the trees!!!

 

[Brutuskend]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

I think that it doesn't seem all that plausible for numerous reasons, not the least of which is that there are huge divides within the community -- some of us hate others of us. Our only common link is one single sexual preference.

Religious reasons are pretty much an entire way of living that is common to people, so it seems that it would be fairly easy for those people to "get along". That's not even remotely true in the gay community.

Yeah, you NEVER hear about one Catholic killing another Catholic or one Protestant killing another. And I'm sure ALL Jewish people get along like one big happy family. Lord knows that ALL Muslims get along together famously.

I really don't see WHY a separate country based around sexual orientation isn't a good idea if you all want to change things.

You really don't get it, do you.

I'm not saying that everyone of a particular religion gets along perfectly, but when their "way of life" is generally similar, or at least compatible, I think that there would be a possibility of that happening. That just doesn't apply at *all* to the gay community.

No, I guess I don't get it. It seems like a GREAT idea to me. I know after the civil war some ex slaves left this country and started their own country. So this hasn't happened JUST over religious reasons in the past. One BIG thing about the Mormons was that they wanted to have their own marriage laws. In their case the only mistake they made was to stay in a part of America that would eventually become part of the US.

I've thought for YEARS about how great it would be to buy and island somewhere and declare it my own little country. But alas, I'm poor and that will never happen. However if all the people in the world that were gay pitched in, they could probably buy a LARGE part of the former USSR.

But just think! You buy and island and grow pot (Legal there of course since it's YOUR country) and declare it your only national export item. If any other countries don't like it they would have to declare war on you to make you stop. They you surrender and get financial aid for you country from the BIG BOYS.

That isolates you from the rest of the world. I don't want to go live on some deserted island. I don't want to live in Europe. I don't want to live in Africa. I want to live in the USA or Canada. There's no reason why we cannot be equal.

OK, let me approach it from a non-religious way: what other group has started their own country or etc that generally has very, very little in common, comprised of very different life styles?

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
I don't mind it as long as they're not my neighbours and I don't have to see them at work.

Why do those things matter? They're just people.

For one, seeing a couple of men going at it if they happen to leave their blinds open and I happen to take a gander... that could scar me for life.

As for work... well, to put it simply I'd be scared to bend over to pick up a dime.

<sigh> Stereotypes suck. Why do you assume that someone would rape you if you were to bend over? Heck, why do you assume that a gay guy would even care to check you out?

I agree that sex is something that should not be a public matter, at least unless all parties possibly involved have prior knowledge and consent.

Both of those points are way outside of the realm of homosexuality... they could be applied to any orientation.

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Why should Mormons be able to have multiple wives? Because the laws says they can't.

Other countries allow it though.
So.

If their religion permits it, then they should be able to be married -- as recognized by their church.

If the law permits it, then they should be able to be married -- as recognized by the law.

That's just another reason that marriage should not be the proper term for anyone to use. Let some word serve as marriage (as recognized by the church) and some word serve as marriage (as recognized by the state).

To clarify: I'm not particularly for or against the law permitting multiple spouses. The law should allow them to be married to X people, and the church should allow them to be married to Y people, inasmuchas X <=> Y.

 

[K1052]

Gay people have every right to be just as miserable as straight people, so I say them them marry.

 

[Brutuskend]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
I don't mind it as long as they're not my neighbours and I don't have to see them at work.

Why do those things matter? They're just people.

For one, seeing a couple of men going at it if they happen to leave their blinds open and I happen to take a gander... that could scar me for life.

As for work... well, to put it simply I'd be scared to bend over to pick up a dime.

<sigh> Stereotypes suck. Why do you assume that someone would rape you if you were to bend over? Heck, why do you assume that a gay guy would even care to check you out?

I agree that sex is something that should not be a public matter, at least unless all parties possibly involved have prior knowledge and consent.

Both of those points are way outside of the realm of homosexuality... they could be applied to any orientation.

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Why should Mormons be able to have multiple wives? Because the laws says they can't.

Other countries allow it though.
So.

If their religion permits it, then they should be able to be married -- as recognized by their church.

If the law permits it, then they should be able to be married -- as recognized by the law.

That's just another reason that marriage should not be the proper term for anyone to use. Let some word serve as marriage (as recognized by the church) and some word serve as marriage (as recognized by the state).

To clarify: I'm not particularly for or against the law permitting multiple spouses. The law should allow them to be married to X people, and the church should allow them to be married to Y people, inasmuchas X <=> Y.

But that brings up the whole church verses state thing and I thought you wanted to bypass that? You apparently can't have both, at least not in this country. Right now, the state or states say gays can not marry just like they say Mormons can only have one wife.
There ARE Mormons that DO have more then one wife and there ARE Gays that are Married even if the state doesn't recognize their union as such. Want to change it? Then you can either wait and see if it changes or take one of the options I suggested in one of my other posts.

Gripping about it will change nothing. And like I said in the post that pissed you off so much, trying to change peoples minds that are against it is like US trying to change your sexual orientation. It won't happen. But like I also said, we aren't trying to change YOU and as I see it you really don't have a right to try and change us or condemn us for OUR beliefs.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

I've thought for YEARS about how great it would be to buy and island somewhere and declare it my own little country. But alas, I'm poor and that will never happen. However if all the people in the world that were gay pitched in, they could probably buy a LARGE part of the former USSR.

Fvck that, let's just take the West Bank. The Palestinians are barely settled in, they wouldn't miss it.

Fvck that, we'd have to redraw all the maps of the US and reprint all those textbooks. Think of the trees!!!

We'll keep the name Palestine and everything, no fuss, no muss. Hence forth, Palestine will be known as the gay nation!

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: 6000SUX
There's no point in having a discusion with someone who won't admit they're wrong on something so basic. Admit you made a boo-boo and we can continue.

You have missed my point, and the overall point. The Constitution does implicitly grant the right to gay marriage and drug use because it does not specifically prohibit either thing. Only through the laws of the federal government, states, and municipalities are these things prohibited, and only by them should they be. Hence the 10th amendment:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

The purpose of the Constitution is to grant rights, not take them away. As I said in my previous post, and as you ignored, my point is that an amendment prohibiting gay marriage should not be part of the Constitution, just as an amendment prohibiting alcohol should not be in the Constitution. We've already seen through one such travesty, it should not happen again.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

OK - Here's my point of view on gay marriage.

Straights don't want gays to have the right to marry, as homosexual marriage would violate the sanctity (whatever that is, in light of soaring divorce rates) of marriage. Gays insist on being allowed to marry, as anything less (i.e. civil unions, etc.) would mean that they are less equal than similarly situated straight folks.

The solution? Easy. Make state laws concerning "marriage" unconstitutional.

Before all of you socially challenged, marginally literate morons get your panties in a bunch, hear me out.

Marriage is a concept which finds its basis in the Bible, Torah, Quran, etc. As such, it can be fairly argued that, by the government endorsing the concept of marriage, it is endorsing a religious ritual, possibly in violation of the First Amendment of the US Constitution. So, challenge it.

Ok... so lets say marriage is given the old heave ho by the Supremes... What then? Easy. Each state would have to pass civil union statutes. The states (under the imaginary Supreme Court ruling that it would take to pull this off) would allow all adults to marry another consenting adult. What do you do to prevent the government from infringing upon the exercise of religion? Easy. Folks who would like to get married - before a church - would be able to claim civil union status automatically. If parties would like to forego a ceremonial marraige and elect civil union status, that is cool, too.

Whoever wants to be married, can be married, provided they can find a church to marry them - including homosexuals. Everyone, of proper age and consent, could get a civil union.

Married before God. Unitied civilly by the state. Everyone gets what they want. Everyone is equal.

Flame on.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

I've thought for YEARS about how great it would be to buy and island somewhere and declare it my own little country. But alas, I'm poor and that will never happen. However if all the people in the world that were gay pitched in, they could probably buy a LARGE part of the former USSR.

Fvck that, let's just take the West Bank. The Palestinians are barely settled in, they wouldn't miss it.

Fvck that, we'd have to redraw all the maps of the US and reprint all those textbooks. Think of the trees!!!

We'll keep the name Palestine and everything, no fuss, no muss. Hence forth, Palestine will be known as the gay nation!

I already call it that.

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
I don't mind it as long as they're not my neighbours and I don't have to see them at work.

Why do those things matter? They're just people.

For one, seeing a couple of men going at it if they happen to leave their blinds open and I happen to take a gander... that could scar me for life.

As for work... well, to put it simply I'd be scared to bend over to pick up a dime.

<sigh> Stereotypes suck. Why do you assume that someone would rape you if you were to bend over? Heck, why do you assume that a gay guy would even care to check you out?

I agree that sex is something that should not be a public matter, at least unless all parties possibly involved have prior knowledge and consent.

Both of those points are way outside of the realm of homosexuality... they could be applied to any orientation.

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Why should Mormons be able to have multiple wives? Because the laws says they can't.

Other countries allow it though.
So.

If their religion permits it, then they should be able to be married -- as recognized by their church.

If the law permits it, then they should be able to be married -- as recognized by the law.

That's just another reason that marriage should not be the proper term for anyone to use. Let some word serve as marriage (as recognized by the church) and some word serve as marriage (as recognized by the state).

To clarify: I'm not particularly for or against the law permitting multiple spouses. The law should allow them to be married to X people, and the church should allow them to be married to Y people, inasmuchas X <=> Y.

But that brings up the whole church verses state thing and I thought you wanted to bypass that? You apparently can't have both, at least not in this country. Right now, the state or states say gays can not marry just like they say Mormons can only have one wife.
There ARE Mormons that DO have more then one wife and there ARE Gays that are Married even if the state doesn't recognize their union as such. Want to change it? Then you can either wait and see if it changes or take one of the options I suggested in one of my other posts.

Gripping about it will change nothing. And like I said in the post that pissed you off so much, trying to change peoples minds that are against it is like US trying to change your sexual orientation. It won't happen. But like I also said, we aren't trying to change YOU and as I see it you really don't have a right to try and change us or condemn us for OUR beliefs.

Perhaps you cannot be swayed, but I know *many* people can be, and many already have been. Each year brings a growing level of acceptance, whether you agree with it or not. It may be a long time from now, but gays will eventually become as accepted as blacks are now accepted, and it will seem stupid that we ever had to have conversations like this.

What good will waiting to see if it changes do? If all of the gay men in the nation just sat there, doing nothing at all, then acceptance would never come -- there would be no point in it. I believe that there has to be some level of vocalization there in order to promote and encourage acceptance. I can think of many people that previously were very outspoken homophobes that stopped with that nonsense, and became friends with several homosexuals, after they realized that they were normal. Most gays are *no* different than you are, with the *only* exception being a single sexual preference. Big deal. That shouldn't come up in a workplace, and really does not hurt anyone.

 

[sandorski]

I'm a big fan of Democracy and all, but as many like to point out in other debates the US is a Republic. This is the perfect issue for a republican(not to be confused with the political party of same name) response: Grant Homosexuals Marriage despite what the Majority wants and in a couple decades the Majority will agree it was the right decision.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: mattpegher
I am married and straight but I have a few gay coworkers and I have yet to hear one good argument against allowing them to marry. With the government so up in a huff about this issue, I just can't see their justification.

I don't see why they shouldn't be able to. It's a personal ceremony between two people. It's nobody else's business.

I'm never asked if certain straight people should be allowed to marry each other, why should I have a say if any gay people can marry each other?

I'm all for personal freedom. I don't think that observers should have any say over what someone else does if it's not hurting them. If some straight couple in some state gets married, how does that hurt/help me? If some gay couple wants to get married how does that hurt/help me? It doesn't. It's not for you to decide.