gays in the military

[JulesMaximus]

Sooooo..... men and women should be able to shower together too, amiright?

Only woman I would feel comfortable showering with would be my wife...I'm sure she'd feel the same when it comes to showering with men.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Sooooo..... men and women should be able to shower together too, amiright?

Yes and no.

If we grew up in a world where we had always been exposed to that, nakedness would not be so directly linked to imminent sex.

Sounds odd, but read Piers Anthony "Split Infinity". He kind of says something similar, that when you are used to seeing women naked every day of your life, you do not get excited when you see one naked. Have them do something like put a forbidden negligee ON and now the signal has been sent.

So... If you have been exposed to other males all your life, showering with a bunch of them should not be too difficult a situation to keep...civil.

OTOH, I have run into one or two (figuratively!!!) that have sported some hickory while changing in the gym for the first time in a long time (NYSC). The earring and the lisp were not needed as an ID in those cases!

 

[Train]

Yes and no.

If we grew up in a world where we had always been exposed to that, nakedness would not be so directly linked to imminent sex.

What a very "conservative" stance. It's akin to "its always been this way, we can't change it now." type of arguments about anything. You could use the same logic and say "It's always been taboo to be openly gay in the military, we can't change that now"

Before racial integration in the military in the 1940's and 50's, most the those people "grew up that way" yet the military forced them to integrate anyways. Why would this be any different?

 

[her209]

If you have problems following orders because you're commanding officer sucks dick, then you shouldn't be in the military.

 

[ShawnD1]

Gays should not be allowed into the military because that gives me a potential way out if I'm drafted in the next war. I'll just say I'm gay then I can stay here and pound my wife while the rest of you guys turn gay because there are no women around.

 

[Turin39789]

Only woman I would feel comfortable showering with would be my wife...I'm sure she'd feel the same when it comes to showering with men.

In my experience that is not true.

 

[ShawnD1]

In my experience that is not true.

I too had sex with Jules' wife. :whiste:

If you have problems with gays looking at you while you are showering then you seriously need one of those penis enlarging pumps. Either that or some hardcore medication that makes you not care so much.

 

[soulcougher73]

Personally, I don't care if they repeal DADT or not. I could swing both ways (zing!) But if they do, they have to put thier money where thier mouth is and go all the way. I dsepise double standards more than anything.

Concidering the majority of the population is straight you can see how men and women showering together would be a bad idea as the likely hood of sexual mischief to accure would he a lot higher. But the gay population is very small so the likely hood any mischief would happen from a shower is almost nill. Keeping the genders seperate wether gay or straight is better then doing coed simply do to shear numbers.

I mean seriously what is the gay population of the military? 1% even?

 

[her209]

If you have problems with gays looking at you while you are showering then you seriously need one of those penis enlarging pumps. Either that or some hardcore medication that makes you not care so much.

I dunno. If someone stares long enough at your package, you'll eventually want to have sex with that person.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Awesome picture :thumbsup:

 

[moshquerade]

I dunno. If someone stares long enough at your package, you'll eventually want to have sex with that person.

your dog called. he said he was staring at your package last night.

are you being serious? who's going to stare at your package, really?

 

[DivideBYZero]

I honestly don't understand how openly gay men being forced to shower with straight men (and vice versa) is any different than males and females showering together?

The same exact reasoning being used ("not sexual deviants looking to butt rape", "dealt with swiftly and strongly") in support of allowing gays can be used to support coed showering and living quarters.

The fact of the matter is, is that problems would definitely arise. We have more than enough people in the military right now that we do not need gays and the problems they would bring.

 

[her209]

your dog called. he said he was staring at your package last night.

Quit being silly.

are you being serious? who's going to stare at your package, really?

Who wouldn't stare at this!?

Babe Ahead

 

[zinfamous]

If you think openly gay people should be allowed in the military, then you must also believe showers and locker rooms in gyms should be coed.

Oh, look. The Jr. Rot-see has chimed in.

 

[zinfamous]

Because if sexual preference actually became a protected minority, then churches would be forced to hire them into leadership positions, despite it being against the very foundations of the church.
Its a logical business decision.

Church's pay no taxes. Are you saying that the gov't is somehow capable of informing the church of their administrative hiring decisions, and controlling their inbred discrimination policies?

lolfool.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Quit being silly.


Who wouldn't stare at this!?

Babe Ahead

Is she gay? Also, Photoshop says, "You can thank me later".

 

[Phoenix86]

has this discussion seriously dissolved to how a shower would work out if DADT was repealed? holy shit.

When there's no logical argument all that's left are illogical ones.

I'm sure this is as new and surprising to you as showing with gay men is to straights.

 

[dpodblood]

Only because it would be new to you. After a while it would totally normal.

Anyone remember the shower scene in StarShip troopers? Coed.

Ha so I'm not the only one who thought of that scene!

 

[zinfamous]

I honestly don't understand how openly gay men being forced to shower with straight men (and vice versa) is any different than males and females showering together?

The same exact reasoning being used ("not sexual deviants looking to butt rape", "dealt with swiftly and strongly") in support of allowing gays can be used to support coed showering and living quarters.

The fact of the matter is, is that problems would definitely arise. We have more than enough people in the military right now that we do not need gays and the problems they would bring.

Don't worry, you will never encounter any of the gays that have already been serving in the military for DECADES, b/c you are a ROTC fuckwit. All of the gays are far more qualified to serve and defend this country than you are, or will ever be.

Everyone knows this.

 

[zinfamous]

I think you should change "openly gay" to "gay" because believe it or not, there are already gays serving in the military... and guess what... you may have already taken a shower with one! Have you been assaulted by a gay man? I would like to know where this ideology of yours comes from and what it is based on.

You know... the really sad part is that you're more likely to be sodomized by a straight man in the military than a gay man.

Funny, how one of the primary training tactics in boot camp was (and remains?) "the stripping of sexual identity" along with individual identity.

After the head is shaved, everyone is issued the same provisions, attire, sleeps in an anonymous bunk within a sterile, anonymous bunker, you spent much of that time being called a lovely human, no? Without any other kind of regular outlet for sexual energy in the military for so long, the SOP was that you had no sexual identity.

It seems to me that allowing gays to serve openly would more or less be following standard protocol, more or less?

 

[ShawnD1]

I dunno. If someone stares long enough at your package, you'll eventually want to have sex with that person.

I guess it depends how he's staring. I can't look it up since I'm at work right now, but search youtube for "slow jerk". I think it was done by Whitest Kids You Know. I think they also did a video about acting class where two men are supposed to mime kiss the other person (they are standing away from each other) and one guy does mimes the action of jerking the other guy off. That probably would freak me out quite a bit.

 

[brainhulk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZqoh2aUW7g&feature=related

 

[sonicdrummer20]

You're ignorant for so many reasons with this post.

First off, gay men have been showering with straight men since showers have been around in the military and out. Are there situation that arise where there is some sort of sexual misconduct that arose from it? Of course, but there are many more incidents of straight people involved in sexual misconduct. Hell, hazing/abuse happens all the time. Especially with straight boys/men, and it's not uncommon for it to end up sexual in some way. I fully would support co-ed showers and dorms. That said, it's not reasonable in reality. In theory it should be like Starship Troopers where we all shower together. In reality that's not going to happen.

Your last paragraph really shows how much of a homophobic idiot you are. The military isn't exactly having a "surplus" of troops. While it's not at the draft levels, it's also not that we are turning people away due to no need for them. Show me any kind of factual evidence that ending DADT would create problems, and please explain what kind of "problems" they would bring. You should look up the DADT policy. It allows gays in the military, provided they aren't openly gay. Guess what? That means almost without a doubt you have showered, bunked, trained with, and work with at least 1 gay person in your career. How many times have you been raped/molested/hit on/sexually harassed by a gay man?



Or, how about this. We allow gays to openly serve, and keep gender specific showers/barracks. There are valid reasons (although it might not be "fair") to keep men and women segregated believe it or not. While most of the same arguments could be made for gays, there is one that couldn't. Gays having sex never equates to pregnancy.

"Gays having sex never equates to pregnancy", true, however, do homosexuals have a higher rate of STD's(STI's) per person than heterosexuals? Overall they will have to provideall the same benefits for the homosexuals as the heterosexuals, and if i remember correctly homosexual men have a corner on the market of AIDS. If this is true then the government has to treat each and everyone of them for such an incurable disease. This affects the unit and the Armed Forces as a whole and would drive up the cost of medical care/medical treatment facilities for the Government. Not to mention that while not every heterosexual human in the Armed Forces is homophobic, I say that those who are probably are not as quiet about it as can be assumed right now. If we allow Homosexuals into the military openly it will affect the mission through unit cohesion. For example if one member of the unit is a homosexual and one is homophobic and the homosexual is open about such, that identifies him as target for "verbal abuse" from the homophobic member. This puts the mission in danger because there is a divide between the two individuals. If one is injured in battle and the other sees it, how can you guarantee that the victim will be assisted? Especially knowing the problems between the two?

I rest my case.

 

[Ninjahedge]

What a very "conservative" stance. It's akin to "its always been this way, we can't change it now." type of arguments about anything. You could use the same logic and say "It's always been taboo to be openly gay in the military, we can't change that now"

Please show me where I said it can't change. Go on, show me!

When someone says things, it helps if you do not put your own words in between there.

Before racial integration in the military in the 1940's and 50's, most the those people "grew up that way" yet the military forced them to integrate anyways. Why would this be any different?

Because race and sex are two different things. If one man F's another it is Gay no matter what the race is. Trying to draw analogies betwwn race and orientation is as unfair as race and species. The two are not the same thing, and when people try to compare the issues too closely, it breaks down.

Physically speaking, the introduction of Blacks into the military did not increase the possibility of romantic relationships. Romantic relationships are a hinderance to the commant structure, people are more likely to disobey a direct order for the one they love than for just about anything else.

THAT is the issue that needs to be addressed, not whether or not people feel "uncomfortable" about it or not.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Sonic, the reason Gays had higher STD rates was simple.

1. Anal intercourse is less safe. The percentage is small, but still.

2. When something is seen as perverted in society, you don't just attract the ones that genuinely have an attraction for the same sex, but some that have an attraction for something improper. THOSE people are more likely to have problems.

Now, there is also one important thing. I believe they found that Lesbians have a lower rate of STD's. Wanna guess why?

Women are less promiscuous than Men. So if you had a bunch of men that were bonking other men, the chances for them sleeping around and/or cheating was MUCH higher than women. And the chance when BOTH are swinging free? Figure it out.....