gays in the military

[zinfamous]

I rest my case.

Interesting...you never had one tbw.

 

[sonicdrummer20]

What percentage is higher in the military right now? In my unit, COMM, we have about 30 females to 120 males, this about 4 to 1 ratio which is a fairly low considering the other branches. I my memory serves me correctly there are more females in the AF and Navy. but still only about 25 percent of the force is female. So, to answer your response who is going to be more prevalent? lesbians or gays?

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

I honestly don't understand how openly gay men being forced to shower with straight men (and vice versa) is any different than males and females showering together?

The same exact reasoning being used ("not sexual deviants looking to butt rape", "dealt with swiftly and strongly") in support of allowing gays can be used to support coed showering and living quarters.

Are you saying that if you did have coed shower rooms, you would go around raping women in the shower? Noted. Asshole.

 

[zinfamous]

Are you saying that if you did have coed shower rooms, you would go around raping women in the shower? Noted. Asshole.

yes, that's pretty much what he's saying...or the womenz would go around raping him. rofl.

 

[weflyhigh]

zinfamous you are really disrespectful. I am a member of the United States National Guard paid as an E6 and contracted to active duty (full scholarship) upon graduation. I was even acting platoon leader of my "real" battalion for two weeks after our old LT left and before a new one arrived.

I don't know where you got junior rotc from. I never did that.

 

[DangerAardvark]

"Gays having sex never equates to pregnancy", true, however, do homosexuals have a higher rate of STD's(STI's) per person than heterosexuals? Overall they will have to provideall the same benefits for the homosexuals as the heterosexuals, and if i remember correctly homosexual men have a corner on the market of AIDS. If this is true then the government has to treat each and everyone of them for such an incurable disease. This affects the unit and the Armed Forces as a whole and would drive up the cost of medical care/medical treatment facilities for the Government. Not to mention that while not every heterosexual human in the Armed Forces is homophobic, I say that those who are probably are not as quiet about it as can be assumed right now. If we allow Homosexuals into the military openly it will affect the mission through unit cohesion. For example if one member of the unit is a homosexual and one is homophobic and the homosexual is open about such, that identifies him as target for "verbal abuse" from the homophobic member. This puts the mission in danger because there is a divide between the two individuals. If one is injured in battle and the other sees it, how can you guarantee that the victim will be assisted? Especially knowing the problems between the two?

I rest my case.

This is so common it's comical: citing homophobia as a reason to keep gays out while simultaneously endorsing more homophobia. The exact same reasoning was used to justify racial segregation. You ARE the problem you complain about.

 

[MarkXIX]

I've been in the military for 15+ years and I can't recall the last time I took a shower in a truly wide open shower space like I had to in high school.

Besides, as someone else asked, how did this turn into a referendum on showers in the military?

Fact is, gays have served in this nation's military since before the Revolutionary War. I can guarantee you that there are more problems in one year from heterosexual military member relationships that there have EVER been in the history of the military for gays.

 

[MarkXIX]

zinfamous you are really disrespectful. I am a member of the United States National Guard paid as an E6 and contracted to active duty (full scholarship) upon graduation. I was even acting platoon leader of my "real" battalion for two weeks after our old LT left and before a new one arrived.

I don't know where you got junior rotc from. I never did that.

Holy shit! So you're going to be an officer and be a bigot too, huh? Make sure you read those Army Values every single night before you go to bed and make sure that you and everyone in your charge enforces them all the time, every day. Best of luck to you, bigot.

 

[SlitheryDee]

I don't give a shit.

Actually, whichever way generates the least bitching in the long run.

Has anyone posted this yet?

 

[Phoenix86]

G

zinfamous you are really disrespectful. I am a member of the United States National Guard paid as an E6 and contracted to active duty (full scholarship) upon graduation. I was even acting platoon leader of my "real" battalion for two weeks after our old LT left and before a new one arrived.

I don't know where you got junior rotc from. I never did that.

I'm extremely sorry for anyone under your command, should you go further in your career.

Please stick to national guard so you limit yourself.

That being said I do appreciate your service. Thank you.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

zinfamous you are really disrespectful. I am a member of the United States National Guard paid as an E6 and contracted to active duty (full scholarship) upon graduation. I was even acting platoon leader of my "real" battalion for two weeks after our old LT left and before a new one arrived.

I don't know where you got junior rotc from. I never did that.

That enables you to speak for yourself just like everyone else.

I've been serving with gay people since 1988 in several war zones, two as an Officer in command, that allows me to speak for my experiences in the matter.

My experiences is that it doesn't matter at all if someone is gay or not as long as they perform their duty and follow orders.

Those who can't figure that out don't belong in the service.

 

[ahenkel]

I'm pretty sure the gay people that join the military don't think its gonna be like going on Project Runway. Tim Gunn isn't gonna be your drill sergeant

 

[2Xtreme21]

zinfamous you are really disrespectful. I am a member of the United States National Guard paid as an E6 and contracted to active duty (full scholarship) upon graduation. I was even acting platoon leader of my "real" battalion for two weeks after our old LT left and before a new one arrived.

You don't deserve respect.

 

[zinfamous]

zinfamous you are really disrespectful. I am a member of the United States National Guard paid as an E6 and contracted to active duty (full scholarship) upon graduation. I was even acting platoon leader of my "real" battalion for two weeks after our old LT left and before a new one arrived.

I don't know where you got junior rotc from. I never did that.

It actually came out in your notorious Avatar thread, iirc. I'm sure Boomer will chime in again. I believe he has that stuff saved. You're a ROTC. maybe not Jr, but no better.

anyhoo, your presence in any kind of armed forces is a farce. You don't really deserve respect, so...I'm not going to be guilted into apologizing for insulting a non-military type.

 

[ShawnD1]

I guess it depends how he's staring. I can't look it up since I'm at work right now, but search youtube for "slow jerk". I think it was done by Whitest Kids You Know. I think they also did a video about acting class where two men are supposed to mime kiss the other person (they are standing away from each other) and one guy does mimes the action of jerking the other guy off. That probably would freak me out quite a bit.

Yay I'm at home and I can finally share this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klenZymUCGg

My experiences is that it doesn't matter at all if someone is gay or not as long as they perform their duty and follow orders.

Those who can't figure that out don't belong in the service.

tru dat. I'm straight and I would make a horrible soldier. This is true for most of ATOT.

 

[zsdersw]

"Gays having sex never equates to pregnancy", true, however, do homosexuals have a higher rate of STD's(STI's) per person than heterosexuals? Overall they will have to provideall the same benefits for the homosexuals as the heterosexuals, and if i remember correctly homosexual men have a corner on the market of AIDS. If this is true then the government has to treat each and everyone of them for such an incurable disease. This affects the unit and the Armed Forces as a whole and would drive up the cost of medical care/medical treatment facilities for the Government. Not to mention that while not every heterosexual human in the Armed Forces is homophobic, I say that those who are probably are not as quiet about it as can be assumed right now. If we allow Homosexuals into the military openly it will affect the mission through unit cohesion. For example if one member of the unit is a homosexual and one is homophobic and the homosexual is open about such, that identifies him as target for "verbal abuse" from the homophobic member. This puts the mission in danger because there is a divide between the two individuals. If one is injured in battle and the other sees it, how can you guarantee that the victim will be assisted? Especially knowing the problems between the two?

I rest my case.

So much fail. Consider the following:

1.) Gay men, especially those who desire a career in the military, are not a majority among gay men.

2.) STD/STIs have nothing to do with whether gay people serve openly or not. If gay men or women already in the military have STDs they're already being treated for them, even if no one knows they're gay.

3.) The military is not in the business of coddling phobias, whether it's homo-, agoro-, acro-, or any of the others.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Fact is, gays have served in this nation's military since before the Revolutionary War. I can guarantee you that there are more problems in one year from heterosexual military member relationships that there have EVER been in the history of the military for gays.

Sadly, I think that is only because the Gays are still in hiding. They are more careful about their relationships and more diciplined because they know the price they pay will be much higher not just if something goes wrong, but if they are even discovered.

Humans are humans. If Homosexuality is accepted in the future, you will see the same ratio of relationship screw ups amongst their group as the Hetero community.

 

[destrekor]

JohnOfSheffield... right on.


So as a means to try and make the organization that provided my training not look like so much fail....

Letting gays serve openly isn't going to cause our military to fall apart. The only point that I sadly have to agree with weflyhigh on, is that there might be an increase in problems for a little while. But all that means, is it will take competent officers to get these guys out of the unit. I don't care how good of a soldier one man may be, if he can't work effectively with the entire unit, it could be cause for far more pain in the future than simply training up a new soldier. There are plenty of men and women in the military that do not belong in the military right now, and even though many may be great soldiers, the moment they show their true selves to the unit... they need to get some personal time with the leadership and figure out their future.

There could be some bigot-influenced violence directed toward openly-gay individuals, but that already exists - and competent leaders try and get that squashed as fast as possible. There are plenty of racists in the military, plenty of male chauvinists, and plenty of extreme homophobes - that isn't going to change for a long time. You just have to deal with each situation as it pops up.
And the biggest cause of concern is leadership not setting the right tone. If leadership sets the tone correctly from the get-go, some of the bigots may tone themselves down to prevent a fall out with their superiors.
However, if the leadership also shows some tendencies toward bigotry, the men underneath can easily pick up on that.. and that's only going to cause more issues.

weflyhigh, in short, it doesn't matter what you're personal beliefs on any issue may be, your place as on officer, at least in the presence of the unit, is to not show any personal beliefs that me be contrary to what the military believes.

 

[brainhulk]

a retired general thinks dutch military policy on gays resulted in their failure to defend against the genocide in Bosnia...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...al-links-policy-gays-dutch-military-genocide/

 

[Ninjahedge]

We all know Faux News is THE most reliable source for "News".

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Can you tell me which casket has a gay soldier in it?

 

[sonicdrummer20]

As far as the non-deployable aspect, any US military person with HIV/AIDS is non-deployable because, in a combat zone, an individual wounded and bleeding is at risk of contaminating the personnel assigned to treat the wounded thus causing him to contract the same disease as the wounded he treats, now explain why you would want another person who is simply doing his job to get AIDS.

By the way if you are nondeployable why would they keep you in, they are kicking people out; for being overweight, asthma, back injuries, etc, because of non-deployability issues.

 

[ShawnD1]

As far as the non-deployable aspect, any US military person with HIV/AIDS is non-deployable because, in a combat zone, an individual wounded and bleeding is at risk of contaminating the personnel assigned to treat the wounded thus causing him to contract the same disease as the wounded he treats, now explain why you would want another person who is simply doing his job to get AIDS.

sonic is right. We should boot all black people out of the army. Aside from eating all the fried chicken and being lazy, they also endanger other troops by spreading their diseases around!


http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/aa/

n 2006, black men accounted for two-thirds of new infections (65&#37 among all blacks. The rate of new HIV infection for black men was 6 times as high as that of white men, nearly 3 times that of Hispanic/Latino men, and twice that of black women.

hey i just noticed that my signature applies to this thread :awe:

 

[sonicdrummer20]

sonic is right. We should boot all black people out of the army. Aside from eating all the fried chicken and being lazy, they also endanger other troops by spreading their diseases around!


http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/aa/


hey i just noticed that my signature applies to this thread :awe:

This is a serious issue, grow up and act like an adult. I didn't state that black people needed to be booted out, if you notice, the 65% you quoted is not 65% of the population of the US, but of those infected. There are regular blood tests in the Service, I am in the Air Force and get blood tested regularly.

 

[zsdersw]

As far as the non-deployable aspect, any US military person with HIV/AIDS is non-deployable because, in a combat zone, an individual wounded and bleeding is at risk of contaminating the personnel assigned to treat the wounded thus causing him to contract the same disease as the wounded he treats, now explain why you would want another person who is simply doing his job to get AIDS.

By the way if you are nondeployable why would they keep you in, they are kicking people out; for being overweight, asthma, back injuries, etc, because of non-deployability issues.

Funny you should pick on HIV/AIDS, assuming it has some relevance to this topic because it, according to you, is the gay person's disease (even though it's not)... when I and others mentioned a broader category of STD/STIs.

And, again, why would it matter if gay people could serve openly or not?