gays in the military

[Phoenix86]

If you think openly gay people should be allowed in the military, then you must also believe showers and locker rooms in gyms should be coed.

Logic fail.

 

[ahenkel]

because women have boobies

Lol those unholy things are immoral and lead to sinning

 

[Train]

No one ever really said they had to remain separated.

And neither did I. But what I am trying to point out that some of those that claim to be "fair" are supporting one and not the other.

If the military stopped doing gender separation alltogether, along with allowing openly gay people to serve, then at least it's fairness would be legit.

 

[zsdersw]

If the military stopped doing gender separation alltogether, along with allowing openly gay people to serve, then at least it's fairness would be legit.

What would you like to see happen? I ask because some who point out things like co-ed showering etc are only doing that to sidestep the discussion about DADT; turning the conversation away from what they don't want (gays serving openly) to what they do want (no gender separation).

 

[dpodblood]

I honestly don't understand how openly gay men being forced to shower with straight men (and vice versa) is any different than males and females showering together?

The same exact reasoning being used ("not sexual deviants looking to butt rape", "dealt with swiftly and strongly") in support of allowing gays can be used to support coed showering and living quarters.

The fact of the matter is, is that problems would definitely arise. We have more than enough people in the military right now that we do not need gays and the problems they would bring.

LOL @ "gays and the problems they would bring"

Anyway; I will agree with one thing. Having gay guys showering with straight guys is pretty much the same thing as men and women showering together. Either gender divided showers should be done away with, or there should be private showers (which probably isn't practical). Banishing gays from the military is not the answer.

Personally I would find showering with anyone other than my girlfriend awkward, gays or not.

 

[brainhulk]

copy the Indian military...don't shower?

 

[Skitzer]

Why are Republicans so obsessed with what goes on in someones bedroom?

Why do you assume it's Republicans who are obsessed?

 

[AstroManLuca]

Why do you assume it's Republicans who are obsessed?

Most homophobes and other moral/bedroom guardians are Republican.

NOTE: This is not implying that most Republicans are homophobes.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I honestly don't understand how openly gay men being forced to shower with straight men (and vice versa) is any different than males and females showering together?

The same exact reasoning being used ("not sexual deviants looking to butt rape", "dealt with swiftly and strongly") in support of allowing gays can be used to support coed showering and living quarters.

The fact of the matter is, is that problems would definitely arise. We have more than enough people in the military right now that we do not need gays and the problems they would bring.

Have you ever showered with gay men? Honestly, I'd bet you good money that you have.

I used to work in the Wilshire district in Los Angeles and the gym I belonged to had a location on the border of West Hollywood so sometimes when traffic was horrible I'd go there after work for a quick workout. I guarantee you there were gay men showering there when I was and none of them ever came on to me.

Contrary to popular belief, gay men don't generally hit on straight guys.

Your post is just plain ignorant.

 

[Train]

What would you like to see happen? I ask because some who point out things like co-ed showering etc are only doing that to sidestep the discussion about DADT; turning the conversation away from what they don't want (gays serving openly) to what they do want (no gender separation).

Personally, I don't care if they repeal DADT or not. I could swing both ways (zing!) But if they do, they have to put thier money where thier mouth is and go all the way. I dsepise double standards more than anything.

 

[Vonkhan]

copy the Indian military...don't shower?

did some burly Sikh soldier have you in a headlock during Ex. Yudh Abhyas or something? :biggrin:

 

[polarmystery]

I can take a shower with a female and not want to bang just because she's naked. Why do people assume they have no control over their sexual desires? Would I look? Of course. Hell I might get turned on. Would I act on it? Nope.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

 

[slayer202]

I think the people serving in the military should be the only ones to decide/vote on this issue. no question about it

 

[slayer202]

I can take a shower with a female and not want to bang just because she's naked. Why do people assume they have no control over their sexual desires? Would I look? Of course. Hell I might get turned on. Would I act on it? Nope.

idk about you, but if I was in a shower full of naked women, 1) I would probably not be concentrating as well as I could be on more serious matters, and 2) those women would probably feel quite uncomfortable

 

[brainhulk]

private pyle! did you just get a woodie in my shower?!!!

 

[Train]

idk about you, but if I was in a shower full of naked women, 1) I would probably not be concentrating as well as I could be on more serious matters, and 2) those women would probably feel quite uncomfortable

Only because it would be new to you. After a while it would totally normal.

Anyone remember the shower scene in StarShip troopers? Coed.

 

[JulesMaximus]

idk about you, but if I was in a shower full of naked women, 1) I would probably not be concentrating as well as I could be on more serious matters, and 2) those women would probably feel quite uncomfortable

What serious matters do you concentrate on in the shower?

FTR-I wouldn't feel comfortable showering with a bunch of strange women...maybe this is somewhat psychological but I know I'd feel uncomfortable. I'm not overly comfortable showering with a bunch of strange men either but probably less so. Never really occurred to me to wonder if any of them were gay or not though, nor did it matter.

 

[Platypus]

has this discussion seriously dissolved to how a shower would work out if DADT was repealed? holy shit.

it doesn't matter anyway since it was defeated because people hate freedom and equality in this country apparently, but seriously people have some really fucked up issues.

here's a little piece of information, you've been showering with gay dudes likely your entire life at the gym or in the military or wherever public showers are. you're not going to get hit on, raped, touched, or even so much as talked to. People are in the shower to get clean, there is no vast conspiracy, just clean your fucking body and get out and move on.

 

[JulesMaximus]

has this discussion seriously dissolved to how a shower would work out if DADT was repealed? holy shit.

it doesn't matter anyway since it was defeated because people hate freedom and equality in this country apparently, but seriously people have some really fucked up issues.

here's a little piece of information, you've been showering with gay dudes likely your entire life at the gym or in the military or wherever public showers are. you're not going to get hit on, raped, touched, or even so much as talked to. People are in the shower to get clean, there is no vast conspiracy, just clean your fucking body and get out and move on.

:thumbsup:

 

[moshquerade]

has this discussion seriously dissolved to how a shower would work out if DADT was repealed? holy shit.

it doesn't matter anyway since it was defeated because people hate freedom and equality in this country apparently, but seriously people have some really fucked up issues.

here's a little piece of information, you've been showering with gay dudes likely your entire life at the gym or in the military or wherever public showers are. you're not going to get hit on, raped, touched, or even so much as talked to. People are in the shower to get clean, there is no vast conspiracy, just clean your fucking body and get out and move on.

:thumbsup:

 

[Train]

here's a little piece of information, you've been showering with gay dudes likely your entire life at the gym or in the military or wherever public showers are.

this is not new or shocking information to anyone.

you're not going to get hit on, raped, touched, or even so much as talked to.

who said you would? Stop trying to make this the issue. Stop playing the homophobic card.

People are in the shower to get clean, there is no vast conspiracy, just clean your fucking body and get out and move on.

Sooooo..... men and women should be able to shower together too, amiright?

 

[moshquerade]

lol @ Platypus playing the homophobic card....


sorry Platypus, but I'm really LOL

 

[Ninjahedge]

The ONLY thing that gets difficult in cases like this is the simple fact about sexual tension.

Even if people were not homophobic, it has not worked too well when you have had absolute integration of men and women in one unit under close quarters. Invariably SOMEONE will get attracted to someone else.

Now with men and women it is easy to seperate, but not as easy with homosexuality. Does that mean you can only put one gay man in a woman's batallion? Could you see how many fakes you would get?

But you can also flip it. Some of the best fighters the world has seen have had their own particular homosexual affiliations. The easiest would be the whole deal with Squires or adolescent boys in the Greek and Roman armies. I will not go any further with that, but you can see that this is not a recent development.

So, should they be allowed to serve? Hell yes! But saying they are "just like everyone else" is not a fair association either. They can fight just as well. they can translate. They can help, but they can also fall in love with someone from their own batallion/squad, and that may make things difficult.

We need to deal with any obvious problems (such as relationships) before we allow free integration. BUT these solutions should not hamper a soldiers ability, or right to serve no matter what their orientation.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

I honestly don't understand how openly gay men being forced to shower with straight men (and vice versa) is any different than males and females showering together?

The same exact reasoning being used ("not sexual deviants looking to butt rape", "dealt with swiftly and strongly") in support of allowing gays can be used to support coed showering and living quarters.

The fact of the matter is, is that problems would definitely arise. We have more than enough people in the military right now that we do not need gays and the problems they would bring.

You're ignorant for so many reasons with this post.

First off, gay men have been showering with straight men since showers have been around in the military and out. Are there situation that arise where there is some sort of sexual misconduct that arose from it? Of course, but there are many more incidents of straight people involved in sexual misconduct. Hell, hazing/abuse happens all the time. Especially with straight boys/men, and it's not uncommon for it to end up sexual in some way. I fully would support co-ed showers and dorms. That said, it's not reasonable in reality. In theory it should be like Starship Troopers where we all shower together. In reality that's not going to happen.

Your last paragraph really shows how much of a homophobic idiot you are. The military isn't exactly having a "surplus" of troops. While it's not at the draft levels, it's also not that we are turning people away due to no need for them. Show me any kind of factual evidence that ending DADT would create problems, and please explain what kind of "problems" they would bring. You should look up the DADT policy. It allows gays in the military, provided they aren't openly gay. Guess what? That means almost without a doubt you have showered, bunked, trained with, and work with at least 1 gay person in your career. How many times have you been raped/molested/hit on/sexually harassed by a gay man?

LOL @ "gays and the problems they would bring"

Anyway; I will agree with one thing. Having gay guys showering with straight guys is pretty much the same thing as men and women showering together. Either gender divided showers should be done away with, or there should be private showers (which probably isn't practical). Banishing gays from the military is not the answer.

Personally I would find showering with anyone other than my girlfriend awkward, gays or not.

Or, how about this. We allow gays to openly serve, and keep gender specific showers/barracks. There are valid reasons (although it might not be "fair") to keep men and women segregated believe it or not. While most of the same arguments could be made for gays, there is one that couldn't. Gays having sex never equates to pregnancy.