Gaza in Plain Language

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,017
8,052
136
You may condemn Israel all you wish. Palestinians will still attack and die as a result.

Perhaps you need to refocus your efforts.
 

SandEagle

Lifer
Aug 4, 2007
16,809
13
0
You may condemn Israel all you wish. Palestinians will still attack and die as a result.

Perhaps you need to refocus your efforts.

don't play that same game. obviously both sides should be condemned but seldom do you hear about what happens on the other side
 

brownzilla786

Senior member
Dec 18, 2005
904
0
0
Haha, I know some people that are going to throw a fit over this.

This video was obviously very biased toward the Palestinians. Just like Israel has there own propoganda, this is the same from Palestine, however, the video/pictures do illustrate Israel's very effective destruction of countless houses/building/people.

And before anyone calls out Sand Eagle for being biased, you better call out the people who are so obviously biased towards Israel as well.
 

SandEagle

Lifer
Aug 4, 2007
16,809
13
0
i am not biased. i hate everyone equally. ^ and you're right, i have never seen pics of the devastation until now....i'm sure most have no idea how bad the destruction is/was
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,017
8,052
136
don't play that same game. obviously both sides should be condemned but seldom do you hear about what happens on the other side

The other side, as in what happens in Gaza? Death and destruction as expected in any war zone. War is a great human suffering and I do not expect to find anything less.
 

ZzZGuy

Golden Member
Nov 15, 2006
1,855
0
0
God help Israel if the palis ever go Mahatma Gandhi on their ass. They are trying to use force and terror against the strongest regional power while being the weakest power. It won't work and Israel can and will lash out to protect their citizens, showing more concern for their own then that of their enemy. The "proportional response" being enough force to stop any attacks on Israel and it's citizens, which isn't good for enemy civilians. The fact that the arab terrorists target civilians because it's too hard to hit Israel's military doesn't help their cause, and is why they are terrorists.

So I side with the Israelis even though I don't like them (the whole "jewish majority" thing and such) because you can live with them or along side them. So I don't care how much destruction the Israel's cause right now.

But in 20 years everyone will forget this conflict. Israel will build walls and barriers around gaza & west bank to stop all foot crossings into Israel, taking land they want in the process. The Iron Dome will be able to intercept all rocket and mortars so no incursions need to be made. The palis will get just enough aid to make it livable but but not enough to fight back. There will be no deaths caused by Israel, civilian or terrorist, to spark outrage and the world will forget they ever existed.

Still think Israel should have been in Africa, someplace away from all the savages & religious nut cases.

-edit- Oh, and the alternative to the gaza blockade is to launch a full scale invasion of the strip to totally remove the current government. That would result in many more lives being lost then has happened so far. Simply letting them be with hamas (terrorists group with the stated goal of destroying israel with no room for compromise) will mean many attacks being launched from that territory. It does not mater that the arabs of that area partially elected them (hamas launched a bloody takeover removing fatah), that does not somehow make attacks on Israel more acceptable. So what we have now is the least bloody option I can think of. -edit-
 
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Deudalus

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2005
1,090
0
0
Honestly, it sucks for the people of Gaza but I can only put it this way.

If you are tired of losing the fight, quit fighting. Every time I see this type of stuff it reminds me the movie Cool Hand Luke where Luke was fighting in the yard against the much bigger Dragline.

Dragline continued to pummel his ass but Luke wouldn't quit fighting back. I don't feel sorry for a boxer who's losing a fight either because he's choosing to fight.


Once the Palestinians decide they want to quit fighting they will have near universal support from foreign nations. As long as they are electing leaders who promise to keep fighting and win the war rather than stop the war this is what they will have.

Until they stop fighting, they will not have enough support to make Israel stop nor should they. Just because they have inferior weaponry does not make them innocent.
 

Borealis7

Platinum Member
Oct 19, 2006
2,901
205
106
i have not seen the video (youtube is blocked at work) but i can tell you Israel does not destroy Palestinian except in the following cases:

1) during military operations like Cast Lead
2) houses that are illegally built within Israeli controlled territories (very rare because Israel doesn't want to piss off entire villages - there are thousands of illegally built homes simply left untouched for years)
3) houses of terrorists and suicide bombers who came from the west bank.

if a building is being destroyed by Israel, they probably have a good enough reason.
 

Noobtastic

Banned
Jul 9, 2005
3,721
0
0
Dude that was HILARIOUS!

Go to 2:59

*British accent* "Even the Goldstone Report, itself a document with SEVERE PRO-ZIONIST OVERTONES issued by a declared Zionist and supporter of Israel, states unequivocally Israel's campaign was blah blah blah."

I really like how much time the commentator spent emphasizing the fact that Goldstone is a self-declared Zionist (and a Jew...goldy, HELLO!), while dubiously saying the report had..."pro-zionist overtones" which I don't even know what that means.

for those who don't want to watch the video, most of it is about a flower mill that was hit by an israeli shell.

The goldstone team (3 people) claimed the mill was hit intentionally to deprive the Gazan people the ability to access flower and thus went beyond the rules of war and was a violation of international law (collective punishment - read the G.C.

the commentator cites goldstones claim without challenge even though many commentators - including goldstone himself - have taken issues with the report, and most of the language has been reduced to pallywood propaganda without facts to support.

the entire video is how the war was designed to ruin the lives of the palestinians - and cites examples where power plants and flower mills were destroyed.

as if they were the target and not the hamas trolls shooting behind them.

what totally demolishes this narrative is that once israel found out it had hit flower plants, it starting shipping in flower DURING THE WAR to compensate.

what country does this. 4 years on and entire neighborhoods are still leveled since operation phantom fury.

perhaps americans should be more concerned about their own country destroying another nation instead of picking on the moral standard - israel.

I wish the USA fought like Israel. Imagine the lives we would save.

my biggest issue I have of course is the casualties the video lists:

1400 killed (false)
80% civilian (false)
342 children (false)

~1,100 have been confirmed. rights groups cited palestinian sources without question, and the 1400 number is the extreme. the most updated list only has the names of ~1,100 people - IDF posted a very explicit report with ages, occupation, etc..etc..

80% civilian is also false. even the Goldstone Report doesn't say 80%. the rights of civilians were largely compromised because hamas embedded itself among civilian areas (admitted) but this does not make them immune from attack according to international law.

also, hamas notoriously abused ambulances to attack israelis, and even prohibited wounded palestinians from seeking treatment in israel.

as far as children are concerned, rights groups considered anyone under the age of 18 a child (seriously.) according to the MFA at least, the overwhelming majority of children were combat-age males, males outnumbered females by a factor of 6.

also know palestinians have a long history of arming children so it really is a moot complaint.

what is most surprising about this conflict is how quickly gaza recovered. while egypt shut down its borders, israel shipped in 30 million lb of aid and within 2 months humanitarian conditions are back to pre-war levels.

the only issues are destroyed or damaged buildings...

truly is beyond me why israel continues to ship in aid, even as hamas shoots at israeli workers escorting the aid into gaza....

it seems users like sand exploit this conflict to demonize israel. whether this is malicious intent or liberal ignorance cannot be determined, but i wish it would stop.
 

gingermeggs

Golden Member
Dec 22, 2008
1,157
0
71
Honestly, it sucks for the people of Gaza but I can only put it this way.

If you are tired of losing the fight, quit fighting. Every time I see this type of stuff it reminds me the movie Cool Hand Luke where Luke was fighting in the yard against the much bigger Dragline.

Dragline continued to pummel his ass but Luke wouldn't quit fighting back. I don't feel sorry for a boxer who's losing a fight either because he's choosing to fight.


Once the Palestinians decide they want to quit fighting they will have near universal support from foreign nations. As long as they are electing leaders who promise to keep fighting and win the war rather than stop the war this is what they will have.

Until they stop fighting, they will not have enough support to make Israel stop nor should they. Just because they have inferior weaponry does not make them innocent.

Ironically funny how you use an actor of jewish background to make your point.
I think if Israel uses military force on Iran's nuclear program they will be hit very hard indeed, let's hope that the missile defense system is up to the job- for the lives of the innocent.
 
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gingermeggs

Golden Member
Dec 22, 2008
1,157
0
71
Dude that was HILARIOUS!

Go to 2:59

*British accent* "Even the Goldstone Report, itself a document with SEVERE PRO-ZIONIST OVERTONES issued by a declared Zionist and supporter of Israel, states unequivocally Israel's campaign was blah blah blah."

I really like how much time the commentator spent emphasizing the fact that Goldstone is a self-declared Zionist (and a Jew...goldy, HELLO!), while dubiously saying the report had..."pro-zionist overtones" which I don't even know what that means.

for those who don't want to watch the video, most of it is about a flower mill that was hit by an israeli shell.

The goldstone team (3 people) claimed the mill was hit intentionally to deprive the Gazan people the ability to access flower and thus went beyond the rules of war and was a violation of international law (collective punishment - read the G.C.

the commentator cites goldstones claim without challenge even though many commentators - including goldstone himself - have taken issues with the report, and most of the language has been reduced to pallywood propaganda without facts to support.

the entire video is how the war was designed to ruin the lives of the palestinians - and cites examples where power plants and flower mills were destroyed.

as if they were the target and not the hamas trolls shooting behind them.

what totally demolishes this narrative is that once israel found out it had hit flower plants, it starting shipping in flower DURING THE WAR to compensate.

what country does this. 4 years on and entire neighborhoods are still leveled since operation phantom fury.

perhaps americans should be more concerned about their own country destroying another nation instead of picking on the moral standard - israel.

I wish the USA fought like Israel. Imagine the lives we would save.

my biggest issue I have of course is the casualties the video lists:

1400 killed (false)
80% civilian (false)
342 children (false)

~1,100 have been confirmed. rights groups cited palestinian sources without question, and the 1400 number is the extreme. the most updated list only has the names of ~1,100 people - IDF posted a very explicit report with ages, occupation, etc..etc..

80% civilian is also false. even the Goldstone Report doesn't say 80%. the rights of civilians were largely compromised because hamas embedded itself among civilian areas (admitted) but this does not make them immune from attack according to international law.

also, hamas notoriously abused ambulances to attack israelis, and even prohibited wounded palestinians from seeking treatment in israel.

as far as children are concerned, rights groups considered anyone under the age of 18 a child (seriously.) according to the MFA at least, the overwhelming majority of children were combat-age males, males outnumbered females by a factor of 6.

also know palestinians have a long history of arming children so it really is a moot complaint.

what is most surprising about this conflict is how quickly gaza recovered. while egypt shut down its borders, israel shipped in 30 million lb of aid and within 2 months humanitarian conditions are back to pre-war levels.

the only issues are destroyed or damaged buildings...

truly is beyond me why israel continues to ship in aid, even as hamas shoots at israeli workers escorting the aid into gaza....

it seems users like sand exploit this conflict to demonize israel. whether this is malicious intent or liberal ignorance cannot be determined, but i wish it would stop.

I'll listen to Amnesty International if I want to hear the truth about Gaza, not the hissings of a little green chameleon lizard!
Jews have got courageous in 60 years? Surprise, Surprise'
I think you've watched Inglorious bastards once too many times Mosha'
 
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Deudalus

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2005
1,090
0
0
Ironically funny how you use an actor of jewish background to make your point.
I think if Israel uses military force on Iran's nuclear program they will be hit very hard indeed, let's hope that the missile defense system is up to the job- for the lives of the innocent.

I had no idea he was Jewish to be honest but I guess it doubly fits.

The reality is that Israel could likely whip any 3 countries at the same time. Iran is under enough pressure from the world right now and if Israel blew up those nuclear sites the rest of the world would only approve of Israel even more.
 

SandEagle

Lifer
Aug 4, 2007
16,809
13
0
I had no idea he was Jewish to be honest but I guess it doubly fits.

The reality is that Israel could likely whip any 3 countries at the same time. Iran is under enough pressure from the world right now and if Israel blew up those nuclear sites the rest of the world would only approve of Israel even more.

are u really that uninformed? russia and china have vested interests in those plants and are favorable economic partners with iran. they will not allow for any attacks on iran atm. an attack on those plants will kick off wwIII.
 

Deudalus

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2005
1,090
0
0
are u really that uninformed? russia and china have vested interests in those plants and are favorable economic partners with iran. they will not allow for any attacks on iran atm. an attack on those plants will kick off wwIII.

Now I think we both know that isn't going to happen. Don't be so damn alarmist and use your brain for something aside from empathy for 2 seconds.

Foreign relations 101, the most sure fire way to make sure countries will never go to war with one another is make them both beneficial economic partners with each other.

Iran is small potatoes to us and to China and they are especially small potatoes economically for China compared to how the United States impacts China economically.


If you truly think that China would get pissed off enough at Israel, the United States, or the west in general because Iran's reactors get blown up then I have a few billion products at Wal-Mart, Target, and every other place that beg to differ.

Do you really think they would cut off their nose in spite of their faces? I'm sure the trillions that the west and China make off of one another every year mean absolutely nothing compared to a couple of billion worth of nuclear reactor sites right


As far as Russia goes they are the old dog with not a tooth left in their heads that continues to bark angrily on the porch and have been for quite some time. They are a non-threat and a non-issue.
 
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gingermeggs

Golden Member
Dec 22, 2008
1,157
0
71
are u really that uninformed? russia and china have vested interests in those plants and are favorable economic partners with iran. they will not allow for any attacks on iran atm. an attack on those plants will kick off wwIII.
So frikken true mate, I have a feeling they already have "the bomb".
Protect the joos' Fascist/Apartheid state at the cost of ww3, hell no!
 

gingermeggs

Golden Member
Dec 22, 2008
1,157
0
71
As far as Russia goes they are the old dog with not a tooth left in their heads that continues to bark angrily on the porch and have been for quite some time. They are a non-threat and a non-issue.

So why didn't America protect Georgia then??????????????????

The biggest mistake you could make is to underestimate the enemies your country has created in the last 60years. This goldman sachs shit was the straw that broke the camels back, I think.
You won't know which enemy hit you, because there are so many!
I guess your gone economically, so your last stand will be with a gun in one hand and a bible/bottle of whiskey in the other! I hope you can rely on your Indian and Israeli allies.
Wake up and smell the chrysanthemums Chuck!
Meet your god!
 
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JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
are u really that uninformed? russia and china have vested interests in those plants and are favorable economic partners with iran. they will not allow for any attacks on iran atm. an attack on those plants will kick off wwIII.

You are being gooofy and very mis-informed.
China and Russia have NO interest in those nuclear plants.
When the time is right Israel will strike and Russia or China cannot and will not do anything about it.
When Israel does strike world opinion will be 100% behind Israel.
The world does not want the headaches associated with a nuclear Iran.

You prediction about WWIII cannot be supported by facts...

Just like your bias for Hamas and the Palestinians is humorous.

I see no links supporting your gregarious comments concerning the "vested' interest that China and Russia have in Iran...or are you just rambling to hear yourself???
 
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Deudalus

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2005
1,090
0
0
So why didn't America protect Georgia then??????????????????

Because we have no interests in Georgia? We have an interest in Iran not becoming a nuclear state as does pretty much everyone other than Iran.

If your political compass tells you that protecting Georgia is = to making sure Iran doesn't get nukes then you probably get lost pretty frequently.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
So why didn't America protect Georgia then??????????????????

The biggest mistake you could make is to underestimate the enemies your country has created in the last 60years. This goldman sachs shit was the straw that broke the camels back, I think.
You won't know which enemy hit you, because there are so many!
I guess your gone economically, so your last stand will be with a gun in one hand and a bible/bottle of whiskey in the other! I hope you can rely on your Indian and Israeli allies.
Wake up and smell the chrysanthemums Chuck!
Meet your god!


Why did we need to protect Georgia??
We are not the policemen of the world..
Georgia had nothing to offer militarily, did they?
They sure did not have any nukes.....
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
are u really that uninformed? russia and china have vested interests in those plants and are favorable economic partners with iran. they will not allow for any attacks on iran atm. an attack on those plants will kick off wwIII.

Russia and China wouldn't do sheit.

Well, maybe Putin would chuckle but that's about it.
 
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