Geeks.com closing???

[VirtualLarry]

http://www.geeks.com/

Looks like Amazon.com claims another victim. In a previous era, where gov't actually stood for the will of the people, and not just a tool of the mega-corporations, amazon.com's tactics would have been grounds for lawsuits by the FTC, under predatory competition laws.

But Amazon.com is the current administration's darling, losing millions of dollars a day selling under cost, and putting millions of other smaller businesses out of work.

The ultimate goal, of course, is one ultimate over-arching megacorp that is the only centralized location to buy anything, especially books. "They" want control over information flow, and how better to censor, under the illusion of a "free market", than to simply not offer those books for sale, and once Amazon.com gets there way, there will be no alternative sources.

So, shed a tear for geeks.com, and DONT PATRONIZE AMAZON.COM. I've stopped, you should too.

 

[Rakehellion]

I like amazon.com.

 

[tyler811]

Email I received from Geeks.com

Geeks.com Ordering Is Being Turned Off...

After 17 years of service, almost half a billion dollars’ worth of computer products put in the hands of loyal Geeks worldwide, jobs for hundreds of people and support for their family members. That is what Geeks.com meant to us and the people who worked here. Words cannot express our gratitude for the relationships and customers we have developed.
But all good things come to an end.

As of today, Friday, August 2nd, 2013, we are turning off ordering on Geeks.com. We will cease to sell and ship products immediately. Geeks.com has always stood behind our products and don’t intend to stop now. We plan on fulfilling all of our responsibilities and liabilities, including, orders, any credits due will be issued, and we will have a small staff on hand to answer questions, to process returns, and to faithfully honor warranties. Please be patient as we will have no phone support. Please click here for any customer service related issues. If you have a problem with a product or a technical question we can help with, please send it here. The corporation itself is not closing. Our retail store in Oceanside California is open for business and will remain open!
Our vision has always been to provide the geeky tech consumer an alternative avenue to purchase quality refurbished and new techy products and gadgets. That vision was the cornerstone of our slogan “Best Deals Every Nanosecond”. Unfortunately after a lot of difficult consideration the owners of Geeks.com feel we are unable to come through on this vision any longer.
There are many why's... The e-commerce landscape, as well as the consumer electronics market, has changed dramatically with intense competition and a 1000lb gorilla (do we really need to say who) competitor that can lose millions of dollars to buy customers and suck up inventory. They can lose money with impunity, supported by the stock market. We cannot. Newegg?
Our wholesale division Evertek.com is still available for our business to business customers. Please visit our website for further information.
We are deeply sorry and saddened by the impact this will have on the families of our staff members, on our own families, and on the community of customers who were a part of us.
We are very hopeful that we can turn ordering back on at some future date.
In the meantime feel free to use our Facebook page as a way to express your thoughts on our decision or anything about Geeks.com, computers, and consumer electronics. We welcome and would love your feedback. The days and weeks ahead are going to be difficult for all, and like anyone, we need cheering up too
With fond memories of the past and with hope for the future, we are signing off...
The Geeks Team

 

[tyler811]

http://www.geeks.com/

Looks like Amazon.com claims another victim. In a previous era, where gov't actually stood for the will of the people, and not just a tool of the mega-corporations, amazon.com's tactics would have been grounds for lawsuits by the FTC, under predatory competition laws.

But Amazon.com is the current administration's darling, losing millions of dollars a day selling under cost, and putting millions of other smaller businesses out of work.

The ultimate goal, of course, is one ultimate over-arching megacorp that is the only centralized location to buy anything, especially books. "They" want control over information flow, and how better to censor, under the illusion of a "free market", than to simply not offer those books for sale, and once Amazon.com gets there way, there will be no alternative sources.

So, shed a tear for geeks.com, and DONT PATRONIZE AMAZON.COM. I've stopped, you should too.

Walmart has been doing this for decades.

 

[jaqie]

I am really confused by this post. Is this an intentional troll post?

I see nothing at all wrong with amazon or newegg, amazon does what geeks did better, newegg sells new stuff better... I have lots of experience with all three. I actually stopped using geeks years ago simply because I got better deals and service at the other two.

This is the nature of capitalism, seriously. The business that gets more customers outgrows the one that doesn't get as many, and eventually eats them up via some means (takeover, buyout, simply out-competing them)...

 

[Torn Mind]

I love it when people act like they actually care about "small businesses" when they wouldn't mind axing any business because they assume any business has infinitely deep pockets BASED SOLELY ON THE REVENUE THEY TAKE IN and that owners should be plenty satisfied with the $40000 like they make in their salaried jobs for doing something that has far more risk and hours to commit just to maintain.

 

[Gillbot]

I used to buy from geeks, their service and quality went down hill and they lost my business for good. All I can say is good riddance.

 

[bononos]

.....

This is the nature of capitalism, seriously. The business that gets more customers outgrows the one that doesn't get as many, and eventually eats them up via some means (takeover, buyout, simply out-competing them)...

There is controversy over 'dumping' and other predatory tactics. Consumers are going to benefit from lower prices temporarily and then they are going to get hit. And take Walmart for example, is it fair competition for such a large public corp to dump their employees on welfare and medicaid to squeeze out smaller rivals who don't do the same?

And the larger Amazon gets, it can squeeze its clients harder by demanding a bigger cut. You can search for the toys'r us case. So its using it quasi monopoly position for rent collecting which sound like market failure.

 

[Torn Mind]

I am really confused by this post. Is this an intentional troll post?

I see nothing at all wrong with amazon or newegg, amazon does what geeks did better, newegg sells new stuff better... I have lots of experience with all three. I actually stopped using geeks years ago simply because I got better deals and service at the other two.

This is the nature of capitalism, seriously. The business that gets more customers outgrows the one that doesn't get as many, and eventually eats them up via some means (takeover, buyout, simply out-competing them)...

Small businesses don't do well against the big boys because cannot get very large volume discounts nor afford providing "never off" customer service like the big boys can. Amazon can also afford to have extremely lenient return policies, which makes customers happy because when it comes to buying goods, most buyers are extremely high-strung about a transaction gone bad and are quick to fury if they don't get their money back or a functioning product back without paying return shipping.

 

[ElFenix]

i don't get how amazon is being supported by the stock market. afaik amazon isn't selling stock in the primary market. 99.9999999% of stock sales are sold by someone other than the issuing entity for anything publicly traded.

 

[jaqie]

Small businesses don't do well against the big boys because cannot get very large volume discounts nor afford providing "never off" customer service like the big boys can. Amazon can also afford to have extremely lenient return policies, which makes customers happy because when it comes to buying goods, most buyers are extremely high-strung about a transaction gone bad and are quick to fury if they don't get their money back or a functioning product back without paying return shipping.

I wonder if you even realize that geeks.com is older than amazon.com... amazon was the upstart, and they won because of exactly what I said.

They can afford such exactly because of what I said, they were better and still are; they got bigger because of attracting more customers and that enabled them to outcompete and thus survival of the fittest.

As for the other poster quoting me and replying, amazon is far from a monopoly, they are a reseller and storefront. I don't think you understand how amazon works at all either.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I wonder if you even realize that geeks.com is older than amazon.com... amazon was the upstart, and they won because of exactly what I said.

They can afford such exactly because of what I said, they were better and still are; they got bigger because of attracting more customers and that enabled them to outcompete and thus survival of the fittest.

As for the other poster quoting me and replying, amazon is far from a monopoly, they are a reseller and storefront. I don't think you understand how amazon works at all either.

If all of the lemonade stands in town, are charging between $1 and $2 for a cup of lemonade, and I open a lemonade stand and charge $0.25 for a cup, even though it costs me $0.50, and I do that just because I can, because my parents are rich, and support my lemonade stand, is that really a fair free-market economy? Just because I want to put all of the other lemonade stands out of business (loss of jobs in the marketplace), and eventually charge $5 for a cup?

 

[cubby1223]

Of course it's easy for people who have never tried to do anything in their lives to love everything Amazon.

I do IT support work for many small businesses and they all are struggling, it amazes me how they are even able to stay in business. These are some of the nicest, hardest working, customer service oriented owners you'll find, and they do care a lot that their employees have stable paychecks to provide for their families.

But, that is dying very fast thanks to attitudes like jaqie's. At least you can rest assured that millions of other shoppers are like you too, your individual shopping habits do not make or break any business.

 

[jaqie]

No, it is a capitalistic economy. If you have problems with capitalism, say that, instead of saying something else and trying to cover it up with hating on businesses working within the rules of the current economic setup and ideals of this country.

The problem with your analogy is that amazon is not a monopoly or single seller and now neither is newegg like I said about twice now. They are a frontend/storefront for other companies as well as selling things themselves. Newegg recently started this, and amazon has been doing this for many years. Amazon could not ditch this without all those others going somewhere else and becoming direct competition, and that is a huge majority of their supposed sales. They know better, they aren't stupid. The reseller / storefront amazon has done for many years is far more fair market than outside of amazon is - outside of it is the cutthroat capitalistic economy, inside is far more of a fair market.

Your argument is specious at the very least and outright bass ackwards at the most.

 

[Torn Mind]

I wonder if you even realize that geeks.com is older than amazon.com... amazon was the upstart, and they won because of exactly what I said.

They can afford such exactly because of what I said, they were better and still are; they got bigger because of attracting more customers and that enabled them to outcompete and thus survival of the fittest.

My commentary in the previous post was in the context the present, not the past. geeks.com is smaller than Amazon.com, and operated with a closer to what a small business would have operated under(charging for shipping is one such thing).

I was not disagreeing that "Amazon is better", but rather trying to expound on the whys and hows as to how it became big while geeks.com is killing off its online business as of today.

Now, I just find some minor things to comment about in your analyses.

IF people wish to perform an "autopsy" of sorts, a deeper analysis of the companies involved is necessary. "Survival of the fittest" is an extremely vague term and does not give any definitive information. It does not answer the questions of why and how one company managed to outperform another and instead provides only linguistic distraction. A distraction in which the entity has something "better" than the other, but with nothing describing how or why the better attributes came about.

Your comment stating having more customers increases growth, which then in turn leads to the larger company ousting the smaller one is somewhat accurate, but not completely. It is the business who gets and larger and more stable revenue stream that survives. Of course, the number of customers is important because they buy the product, but the other variable is revenue received. Pets.com was popular, but it ran at a loss and "died".


Now, here are my own thoughts on potential reasons as to why Amazon grew while Geeks.com didn't as much.

Amazon served a diverse number of markets for goods. Amazon had a much greater variety of goods than geeks.com. Hence, they can attract a bunch of people interested in buying something.

Amazon originally and still sells many items that have more popular appeal. Amazon obviously started as a bookstore and expanded into selling other things. Geeks.com remained mostly a seller of refurb computer goods and tech. Geeks.com's source of inventory is not exactly that big nor is it something most people are thinking about. A new computer is something of a special thing to most people. Refurbs are even more exotic and also treated with suspicion.

This is in addition to having better services, etc.

 

[Torn Mind]

Of course it's easy for people who have never tried to do anything in their lives to love everything Amazon.

I do IT support work for many small businesses and they all are struggling, it amazes me how they are even able to stay in business. These are some of the nicest, hardest working, customer service oriented owners you'll find, and they do care a lot that their employees have stable paychecks to provide for their families.

But, that is dying very fast thanks to attitudes like jaqie's. At least you can rest assured that millions of other shoppers are like you too, your individual shopping habits do not make or break any business.

Well, the masses don't only have spending behavior that are hard to change. They also have viewpoints that are hard to change. Those with various anti-business sentiments are in favor of laws that hinder small businesses.

 

[Torn Mind]

If all of the lemonade stands in town, are charging between $1 and $2 for a cup of lemonade, and I open a lemonade stand and charge $0.25 for a cup, even though it costs me $0.50, and I do that just because I can, because my parents are rich, and support my lemonade stand, is that really a fair free-market economy? Just because I want to put all of the other lemonade stands out of business (loss of jobs in the marketplace), and eventually charge $5 for a cup?

The free market, when it is actually completely free and not unbridled, is an "unfair" system in which company "deaths" is just a consequence and unpleasant results for a significant portion of the population is quite the reality. The U.S does have a market-based economy, but it not totally "free" as folks think it is. But unpleasant results are not preventable even in tightly regulated command economies or mixed economies; there is no such thing as foolproof economic system, and those proposing such things are fools.

One part of your analogy should not be treated as representative of the real world. The price undercutting is not due to the company being "born rich", but rather because they established enough liquidity in their assets to weather losses for a period of time.

Another thing is that there is a possibility that new entrants into the market can enter and charge lemonade at lower prices. However, this is dependent on market conditions such as barriers to entry, interchangeability of goods, etc.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Jesus still Loves those who work for Geeks.com!!

 

[Cerb]

Small businesses don't do well against the big boys because cannot get very large volume discounts nor afford providing "never off" customer service like the big boys can.

Good CS is pretty common among small companies, too. But, they can't also do lower margins, which squeezes them over time. They also have trouble differentiating themselves, since the bigger companies can absorb markets easily enough.

As a counterexample, consider grocery chains. Aldi provides low prices, consistent availability of what they carry, plus some deals. A Whole Foods carries generally higher-line products, at higher prices, with more people in the store. A Kroger/Food Lion/Piggly Wiggly/etc. (whatever is the good middle-ground chain in your region) handles the in-between, and convenience buys of the overlapping goods. While they will overlap, they are generally different enough that they can all be within a few hundred feet of each other and stay in business.

The problem with big online stores, and storefronts, is that they can go start selling the same things as any other store, to the same people, without substantial compromises on their part, real of perceived. You don't want to have to filter through the cheap crap at a Whole Foods, nor waste time looking through $20 shampoo bottles at Piggly Wiggly. With no human interaction, and being able to search a database in seconds from your PC (or minutes from your phone ), it's not nearly the problem, because it's not taking the time and effort required to go to the store, find it, pack it, buy it, repack it, and then bring it home.

If you have, or want to have, a specialized store, but that resells someone else's products, this creates a problem that is more or less insurmountable, in the long run, without growing out of your specialty, and turning into another generic business.

 

[Carson Dyle]

I love Amazon. What did geeks.com sell? Just computer gear? If so, it's no loss to anyone.

 

[Gillbot]

I love Amazon. What did geeks.com sell? Just computer gear? If so, it's no loss to anyone.

Junk. They tried to pass along used and refurbished items without telling people what they were getting. Plus, as time went on the quality just spiraled down hill.

 

[JEDI]

VirtualLarry
Lifer
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 22,750


your signature is too long

 

[shortylickens]

If all of the lemonade stands in town, are charging between $1 and $2 for a cup of lemonade, and I open a lemonade stand and charge $0.25 for a cup, even though it costs me $0.50, and I do that just because I can, because my parents are rich, and support my lemonade stand, is that really a fair free-market economy? Just because I want to put all of the other lemonade stands out of business (loss of jobs in the marketplace), and eventually charge $5 for a cup?

yes cuz your parents arent gonna wanna sell at a loss forever and anybody who can come in and compete at 5 dollars (which will be lots of people) will destroy you.


You gotta take Intermediate Micro and Macro to see this stuff.

 

[BUTCH1]

The part about Walmart's benefits is true though, the employees either can't afford the coverage or it's so weak it's almost worthless so they wind up eligible for public assistance, the taxpayer winds up providing the benefits so Walmart's stockholders do better. Same is going on around here with Publix and Winn Dixie, sure, their always hiring but part-time only, why? to avoid offering the nice benefit package the store and dept. managers are allowed to get, part-time means ineligibility for benny's..

 

[ultimatebob]

That's a bummer... I was hoping that geeks.com would have had a going out of business inventory liquidation sale before they closed

That said, most of the things that they sold seemed to be either old and refurbished... so it would be more like a liquidation sale of stuff that was bought at a liquidation sale