GeForce 6 series video processor OFFICIAL THREAD

[rbV5]

By the way, for all of you who are "now once and for all" switching to ATI: Where's the promised pixel-shader supported video encoding and decoding functionality? Because IIRC ATI quickly advertised PS-based video acceleration support for their x800 product line after NV announced the video processor...

To be fair, ATI's solution isn't any better as of today in reguards to WMV acceleration. It was "finally" enabled in the Cat4.10 drivers, but I've not seen any decrease in CPU utilization from my tests. I have seen some issues with WMV decoding using WMP9 and Cat 4.10 as well (checking into this)

I'm currently, and likely will continue to use both ATI and Nvidia products. It should be a good lesson to wait and see the features in actual use before buying into product hype, its like buying a card for an anticipated upcoming game before its released..not smart, especially for someone like me who should know better.

My 6800 card has been a fair value to this point in "nearly" every respect...even video decoding. Its a decent gamer, it has some issues that I've not yet overcome in regards to support for my widescreen display that make it somewhat unusable for my HTPC, so its been a bit of a disappointment.

I was looking forward to TheaterTeks new DVD software which uses Nvidias new DVD decoders as well, now I'm reading that the post processing works in software on the Radeon's, and hardware on the 6800's...so it seems, like it has been, that there are so many trade-offs and no single great solution, still.

The worst part of this particular issue is the lack of resonse from Nvidia, and the almost equall lack of nailing them for it from the hardware sites we all rely on. You'd think by the amount of attention that gets paid to scrutinizing lossless screen shots to see barely perceptable image differences that something as big as a major hardware flaw on the flagship line of a market leader would produce something?


EDIT:

Where the hell is the wma option in the ati ccc?

Its WMV (WMA is windows audio), CCC has no checkbox, it is enabled by default, I don't believe it actually works anyway)

 

[bpt8056]

Sorry to go off a little bit here, but I am currently making some progress to file a class action lawsuit. I was given the advice to file one against the manufacturer of my video card: BFG. The reason for this is to persuade them to file a lawsuit against nVidia. If they choose to fight nVidia, then we'll drop the lawsuit against BFG. Whether this tactic works or not, there will be a class action lawsuit against nVidia and we're hoping that this strategy will corner nVidia and force a solution sooner rather than later. In all honesty, a class action lawsuit can be dragged through the court system for years depending on how nVidia chooses to play this game. I haven't officially hire anyone yet, but if you know of someone who can get the job done please let me know. Thanks.

 

[GDT]

Originally posted by: rbV5


EDIT:

Where the hell is the wma option in the ati ccc?

Its WMV (WMA is windows audio), CCC has no checkbox, it is enabled by default, I don't believe it actually works anyway)

Ah thanks, I dont think its working on my 9700pro (or its too old to make a difference!).

yeah WMV not WMA, gave up smoking yesterday and my brains not working!



While it isn't on that NV advertised the video processor as working when it wasn't I wouldn't of thought that you would have a problem playing any 'normal' video files (the liquid WMV 1080 is 1440 by 1080).


edited due to non smoking related reasons!

 

[Benedikt]

Hexus shows it works with the 6600GT too. It is also possible that both sites recieved different versions of the 6800GT PCIe which would explain why one was borked and the other not, as the one that worked may have the newer PVP on it. I agree some actual user feedback of these products is in order as well, but see no reason to doubt the results with the 6600GT since both sites show it works. You may remain skeptical, that is your perogative, but I see enough evidence to point to it working and also maintain that the 6800GT that worked has the revamped PVP on it. I just don't think they borked the benchies that badly or lied about it as you seem to.

And that's the point why I don't trust that review: Xbit benches a 6800 in their test without mentioning it in their "testbed and methods" chapter. Which 6800? Which Stepping?
Rule 1 of a good hardware review: Always exactly describe the devices you use(d).
Follow-up: It's clear for me that the 6600 cards have a working VP in the Xbit and Hexus reviews, that's what NV says too. But a working 6800? AFAIK Xbit are the only ones who managed to "prove" that.

Greetings,
B. W.

 

[Benedikt]

Originally posted by: bpt8056
Sorry to go off a little bit here, but I am currently making some progress to file a class action lawsuit. I was given the advice to file one against the manufacturer of my video card: BFG. The reason for this is to persuade them to file a lawsuit against nVidia. If they choose to fight nVidia, then we'll drop the lawsuit against BFG. Whether this tactic works or not, there will be a class action lawsuit against nVidia and we're hoping that this strategy will corner nVidia and force a solution sooner rather than later. In all honesty, a class action lawsuit can be dragged through the court system for years depending on how nVidia chooses to play this game. I haven't officially hire anyone yet, but if you know of someone who can get the job done please let me know. Thanks.

Sounds very interesting. You're a lawyer or something?
But I doubt that BFG will turn against Nvidia, they're a major business partner of NV.

Greetings,
B. W.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: bpt8056
Sorry to go off a little bit here, but I am currently making some progress to file a class action lawsuit. I was given the advice to file one against the manufacturer of my video card: BFG. The reason for this is to persuade them to file a lawsuit against nVidia. If they choose to fight nVidia, then we'll drop the lawsuit against BFG. Whether this tactic works or not, there will be a class action lawsuit against nVidia and we're hoping that this strategy will corner nVidia and force a solution sooner rather than later. In all honesty, a class action lawsuit can be dragged through the court system for years depending on how nVidia chooses to play this game. I haven't officially hire anyone yet, but if you know of someone who can get the job done please let me know. Thanks.

I'm not down with that. If I'm not mistaken, BFG is the only American company in the graphics card industry. They are the only company that offers a true lifetime warranty and true 24/7 ENGLISH SPEAKING tech support. Not to mention putting together a pretty kick-@$$ product in the meantime. Sue someone else or just go after nVidia in the first place.

 

[Trekari]

It doesn't matter if you are 'down with that.'

He has every right to sue the manufacturer of his card - after all that is who first 'falsely advertised' the product and who he is in business with by having purchased their product.

Your comments about BFG does not mean a lawsuit is unwarranted. Just because a company 'is cool' doesn't mean they are above the LAW.

I am personally attempting to get in touch with my local BBB and my State Attorney General. Monday, possible, I will call around town and see if any lawyers have free consultations.

I don't bend over and grab my ankles for ANY company. Nvidia wants to plunge people in the rear, they had best be prepared to pay for it.

 

[bpt8056]

When you get an email like this from BFG:

Official response from NVIDIA.

"The GeForce 6800 models featured the 1st generation of PureVideo
technology which included support for MPEG2 h/w acceleration. While the
initial design goal was to also accelerate other video formats such as
WMV, testing showed that the 1st generation implementation still relied
on the CPU to assist with some of the processing.

As newer GPUs were introduced (GeForce 6600 models), NVIDIA was able to
implement additional enhancements to it's PureVideo technology to add
support for h/w acceleration of other video formats such as WMV."

You know that they're representing the best interest of nVidia, not the consumer. If BFG wants to be nVidia's puppet, then they're going to get smacked.

I am not a lawyer, but I have taken enough business law courses to be comfortable about this. I am looking into several attorneys and hopefully will appoint one, maybe two within the next few weeks.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: Trekari
It doesn't matter if you are 'down with that.'

He has every right to sue the manufacturer of his card - after all that is who first 'falsely advertised' the product and who he is in business with by having purchased their product.

Your comments about BFG does not mean a lawsuit is unwarranted. Just because a company 'is cool' doesn't mean they are above the LAW.

I am personally attempting to get in touch with my local BBB and my State Attorney General. Monday, possible, I will call around town and see if any lawyers have free consultations.

I don't bend over and grab my ankles for ANY company. Nvidia wants to plunge people in the rear, they had best be prepared to pay for it.

Originally it sounded as though he randomly picked a company to just go ahead and sue to get the process started & he chose BFG. After re-reading it, I now see that BFG did manufacture HIS card and that seems a little more logical to me. Sorry, but I see a lot of people dumping on good companies to further their own gain and it pisses me off. Its hard enough to find a good company in any industry these days

 

[lifter]

if someone has interest to make a little "wind":
----the european gainward forum----

http://forum.gainward.de/


http://forum.gainward.de/viewtopic.php?t=634
http://forum.gainward.de/viewtopic.php?t=665

 

[drpootums]

man, i'm thinking about getting a 6800, i hope this lawsuit works and by the time i get one the video processor works...

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: Chippy99
My other piece of evidence is that although my CPU is down to 75% or so, its obviously still working far too hard. I don't have to do much to my PC whilst the clip is playing and I can hit 100% CPU and drop frames :-( Seems I can only get smooth playback if I don't actually do anything else on the PC!
Chip

Thanks for the testing. Now I hope that you (and others) can see precisely why the video-acceleration support that people thought that they would be getting by purchasing a 6800 card is important. Some people like to watch media content, while multi-tasking and doing other things. Nevermind someone that might want to set up a very powerful HTPC system, and still use it for other tasks via network/remote-desktop access, etc.

Heck, on my old 440BX board, which was loaded-down with drives and a SCSI setup besides, I could copy two CDs disc-to-disc on the fly, while watching a DVD movie in a window, while doing things on the internet. Sadly, my current KT400-based isn't isn't up to the task, because of the reduced system I/O bandwidth of the dang Via chipset.

Edit: fixed typo

 

[Shamrock]

It is NOT NVidia's fault! I'll explain

First read here:

http://www.eet.com/article/pri...mp;sub_taxonomyID=4217

M$ is at fault!, here is an excerpt from Slashdot

EETimes is running an interesting story about the future of the video codecs for HD DVDs. The Redmond Beast convinced both the Blu-ray Disc Association and the DVD Forum to adopt its WMV9 video codec over MPEG4 for the upcoming VC-1 standard that is mandated for high-definition video devices. That was a huge coup for MS. Now it turns out that Microsoft cheated and lied: its code is not as good as MPEG 4, the WMV9 reference implementation is not available, and the WMV9 test suite does not exercise all the features. The SMPTE might drop WMV9 after all. Apparently, a highly technical standard body is harder to snowjob than the usual clueless consumers."

Deceived by Microsoft, yet again. And it is very feasible, because we get the HD format with the MPEG-4 codec, and it only is having CPU lag in WMV9 format! Your Video Processor is FUNCTIONING!

Source: http://slashdot.org/articles/0...&tid=109&tid=1

 

[RadiclDreamer]

Originally posted by: Shamrock
It is NOT NVidia's fault! I'll explain

First read here:

http://www.eet.com/article/pri...mp;sub_taxonomyID=4217

M$ is at fault!, here is an excerpt from Slashdot

EETimes is running an interesting story about the future of the video codecs for HD DVDs. The Redmond Beast convinced both the Blu-ray Disc Association and the DVD Forum to adopt its WMV9 video codec over MPEG4 for the upcoming VC-1 standard that is mandated for high-definition video devices. That was a huge coup for MS. Now it turns out that Microsoft cheated and lied: its code is not as good as MPEG 4, the WMV9 reference implementation is not available, and the WMV9 test suite does not exercise all the features. The SMPTE might drop WMV9 after all. Apparently, a highly technical standard body is harder to snowjob than the usual clueless consumers."

Deceived by Microsoft, yet again. And it is very feasible, because we get the HD format with the MPEG-4 codec, and it only is having CPU lag in WMV9 format! Your Video Processor is FUNCTIONING!

Source: http://slashdot.org/articles/0...&tid=109&tid=1

So how does this explain the 6600 series doing better than the 6800 series? Also, why did BFG agree that this was in fact a problem?

 

[RadiclDreamer]

Originally posted by: Shamrock
It is NOT NVidia's fault! I'll explain

First read here:

http://www.eet.com/article/pri...mp;sub_taxonomyID=4217

M$ is at fault!, here is an excerpt from Slashdot

EETimes is running an interesting story about the future of the video codecs for HD DVDs. The Redmond Beast convinced both the Blu-ray Disc Association and the DVD Forum to adopt its WMV9 video codec over MPEG4 for the upcoming VC-1 standard that is mandated for high-definition video devices. That was a huge coup for MS. Now it turns out that Microsoft cheated and lied: its code is not as good as MPEG 4, the WMV9 reference implementation is not available, and the WMV9 test suite does not exercise all the features. The SMPTE might drop WMV9 after all. Apparently, a highly technical standard body is harder to snowjob than the usual clueless consumers."

Deceived by Microsoft, yet again. And it is very feasible, because we get the HD format with the MPEG-4 codec, and it only is having CPU lag in WMV9 format! Your Video Processor is FUNCTIONING!

Source: http://slashdot.org/articles/0...&tid=109&tid=1

So how does this explain the 6600 series doing better than the 6800 series? Also, why did BFG agree that this was in fact a problem?

 

[Shamrock]

apparently you didnt read it?

since the 6600 is a newer technology, they have tried to implement more features into the wmv9 format, and they are STILL getting the rest of the bugs worked out....even when it's MS' responsibility. BFG agrees it's a problem, because it's a problem, it's just not NV's problem, it's MS'

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: Shamrock
apparently you didnt read it?

since the 6600 is a newer technology, they have tried to implement more features into the wmv9 format, and they are STILL getting the rest of the bugs worked out....even when it's MS' responsibility. BFG agrees it's a problem, because it's a problem, it's just not NV's problem, it's MS'

WMV HD was already available on DVD's before the 6800 cards were even launched. It wasn't an official standard before Nvidia was touting it as a feature. This bickering has nothing to do with Nvidia's promised features at all. If this is their explanation for their faulty hardware, its ridiculous.

 

[MDE]

I'm not going to worry myself over this until the 6900 comes out (or whatever the 6800 refresh is) with a working PVP then I'll RMA and raise hell then.

 

[Damolee]

Originally posted by: asylummedia
i'm sure the resellers must have known about this issue, i think they all tried to keep it quiet... as if we wouldnt notice

Now i got a heap of junk transistors on my desk and it's very hard work to get www.microdirect.co.uk to do an RMA... and my card is a Galaxy 6800GT and they have no bases in UK

i hope someone sues nvidia.

should have added...

here is the phone number for nvidia UK.

01189 033000
The secretary is a very nice lady so go easy on her.

It's in Reading, Berks ... where I was born and my hometown...... it is the spawn destination for hell and when the apocolyse hits ...it will come from Microsofts Euro HQ which is also in Reading!
I bet you they will be ignorant, unsupportive .....and no point bothering!

 

[rbV5]

Deceived by Microsoft, yet again. And it is very feasible, because we get the HD format with the MPEG-4 codec, and it only is having CPU lag in WMV9 format! Your Video Processor is FUNCTIONING!

The fact is, that they should "both" work. Did you forget the programmable nature of the processor? Whether a governing body accepts WMV HD as a defacto standard(they have) for delivering HD on DVD or not MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. They never claimed they would support WMV acceleration "IF" it was accepted as a defacto standard for DVD authoring...you show me where they did.

They outright claimed WMV acceleration, they outright claimed the processor was programmable. Don't come in here with half an idea about an unrelated sidebar and try to deflect the blame to Microsoft. Microsoft may have its political battle over the "standard", but WMV is still WMV, and the damn procesor is not working...how about reading this thread and claiming that again with a straight face.

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: Shamrock
apparently you didnt read it?

since the 6600 is a newer technology, they have tried to implement more features into the wmv9 format, and they are STILL getting the rest of the bugs worked out....even when it's MS' responsibility. BFG agrees it's a problem, because it's a problem, it's just not NV's problem, it's MS'

WMV HD was already available on DVD's before the 6800 cards were even launched. It wasn't an official standard before Nvidia was touting it as a feature. This bickering has nothing to do with Nvidia's promised features at all. If this is their explanation for their faulty hardware, its ridiculous.

:thumbsup:
I have a DVD from mid-2003 that has the WMV-HD of 'Standing in the Shadow of Motown'. The WMV9 encoder has been released since Dec 2002. And no, it has not changed since then. This is not MS' issue. It is nVidia.

As for having this wild conspiracy theory that WMV-HD is some sort of spawn of satan, you need to ask the experts. The codec is probably the highest quality with the best compression available. The creation tools are free (many MPEG encoders are not, and sometimes by a long shot - but the $20,000 encoder really does produce the best file). What MS gets is about a quarter per chip implemented in a set-top. Sell 20 million players, and that is a lot of quarters.

 

[kill3ruk]

I sent an email to AOpen and this is what they had to say:

Dear _____,

Good day and thank you for your support on our AGP card.

The specification of this card as well as other NVIDIA AGP we have are based from what NVIDIA and the chip can support. Upon checking the first site that you have given,

http://www.nvidia.com/object/feature_on-chip-video.html

There is a note on the lower portion that some features of the on-chip video processor will be applied on the future driver. It is a possibility that NVIDIA (after numerous requests from customers) are working on it. It may take some time and I¡¦m sure they will be the best person to answer the status on this.

Thanks again.

 

[Trekari]

FYI - Nvidia is a bunch of f-ing liars.

That note was NOT PRESENT on the 15th of this month when I printed out that very page to take to the Nivida Corporate office in Ft. Collins where I live.

They are STALLING and trying to get people to shut up. F-ing asshats think they can add in notes like that after the product has been out for 5 months and people have seen LESS EXPENSIVE and less powerful cards be fully functional since then.

I will be contacting eVGA again tomorrow about this. I hope somoene at Anandtech makes mention of this. Nvidia should not be allowed to screw people over.

-Jas

 

[fbrdphreak]

Hey guys, I need to know if the problem I'm having might be related to the PVP issue:
Video playback stutters under even the lightest system load. I have used WMP10 and WinAmp v5.05 playing video while fullscreen and as a small window so I can do other stuff. Doing ANYTHING more tedious than typing causes the video to studder/skip. The audio continues just fine and the video catches up after a second or so, but even scrolling a damn webpage causes it to do this. The same problem happens with using the TV-Out to display video full-screen on my TV. PVP problem or something I'm missing? Tried different rendering modes in and that only made it worse. GGGRRRRRRRRRRR

 

[theslug]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
Hey guys, I need to know if the problem I'm having might be related to the PVP issue:
Video playback stutters under even the lightest system load. I have used WMP10 and WinAmp v5.05 playing video while fullscreen and as a small window so I can do other stuff. Doing ANYTHING more tedious than typing causes the video to studder/skip. The audio continues just fine and the video catches up after a second or so, but even scrolling a damn webpage causes it to do this. The same problem happens with using the TV-Out to display video full-screen on my TV. PVP problem or something I'm missing? Tried different rendering modes in and that only made it worse. GGGRRRRRRRRRRR

Hmm, don't think that is related to the PVP, but have you tried any other players like media player classic (link below)? Also, it's possible some other card in your system is sharing an IRQ with your video, so maybe by moving something to other PCI slots that could help, if you have anything PCI to begin with. (You can check this under device manager, then view->resources by connection). Just another thing to try.

link