GeForce 6 series video processor OFFICIAL THREAD

[jjzelinski]

My EVGA 6800nu box (i have pics if that matters) says it has an integrated TV encoder, that's about it.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: gururuMy gut tells me that there must be a fix, even though sites are claiming hardware or silicin defect.

I don't think a "gut" reaction can be used to asses this situation accurately. Either the PVP works as advertised or it doesn't. A driver fix would be nice, but if that were possible why wouldn?t nVidia have invested the man-hours needed to have the PVP silicon functioning correctly out of the box, and without a $20 SW addon, just to avoid the bad press? And yes, either we stand on principle now or fall to expediency later. If we grinningly accept this sort of behavior, we?re just begging for more. If nothing else, nVidia, and all other OEM?s for that matter, should KNOW that as consumers (not emotionally-driven, excuse-fixated babies) we?re NOT going to tolerate this sort of behavior without being massively and vocally pissed about it.

 

[bpt8056]

Originally posted by: gururu
does the box on 6800-based products claim hardware-based decoding? if it does, then its going to be a long hard road. if they don't, then there is not much to do about it. i think nowadays, cpus are so fast that gpu video isn't really necessary, so aside from principle, I don't see such a big deal. I think it is a poor reflection on nVidia. My gut tells me that there must be a fix, even though sites are claiming hardware or silicin defect. We'll have to hear from them. Maybe they'll offer some free video decoder cards.

Even if the boxes don't state it, the nVidia website clearly states that the GeForce 6800 series has it. If you go to www.nvidia.com, click on Products > Desktop. On the next page, click on the GeForce 6 series and there are three options such as Enthusiast, Performance, and Mainstream. The GeForce 6800 series falls under the Enthusiast category. Now here is the part that proves that the VPU should have WMV acceleration just like the 6600GT. Click on Benefits and Features > On-Chip video processor and you will see that they touted WMV acceleration.

Now they're stating that it is a first generation video processor and no where on that site does it state such a thing. We must hold them accountable for their deceit.

On a side note, I left some messages for a few attorneys and one of them advised me to contact a consumer complaint agency in the meantime. Anybody know which agency he's referring to? Let me know.

 

[bpt8056]

NEW POLL

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: theslug
So basically Nvidia has distributed a defective product, published false advertising, failed to inform the public of said defect, and failed to offer any sort of compensation or recall. They realize the moment they make an official admittance of the defect, that they will be flooded with complaints or requests for replacements. They hope by stalling further (by saying that a driver is on its way), that this whole thing will blow over because eventually they will have newer, working cards, and no one will care about the 6800 anymore.

I say we don't allow that to happen.

Sigh. I asked my buddy at nVidia about this, got this response:

WMV9 HD decode acceleration is just enabled in drivers from NVIDIA. Microsoft has to release a software update for Windows Media Player 10 to enable this. Or in short - the hardware is ready to do its thing, but requires Microsoft to issue a software update for WMP 10.

 

[gururu]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Sigh. I asked my buddy at nVidia about this, got this response:

WMV9 HD decode acceleration is just enabled in drivers from NVIDIA. Microsoft has to release a software update for Windows Media Player 10 to enable this. Or in short - the hardware is ready to do its thing, but requires Microsoft to issue a software update for WMP 10.

so the hardware will only work in XP? ouch.

 

[Pete]

"Hey Fudo,

In answer to your story on 6800 having no video.

The GeForce 6800 models featured the 1st generation of our programmable video technology which includes support for high-definition MPEG2 video decode and standard definition MPEG2 encode, as well as advanced post processing features such as motion adaptive deinterlacing, and inverse 3:2 pulldown.

The GeForce 6600 models have the same 1st generation programmable video technology support as the GeForce 6800 models. However, the GeForce 6600 models also include hardware acceleration for high-definition Windows Media Video (WMV) decode.

[...]"

Nvidia PR manager Europe

Why can't a "Programmable" Video Processor be made to support WMV decode? Surely it's not a question of core speed, as the new 6800Us are clocked almost as high as the 6600GT, and regular 6600s are clocked as low as 6800s/GTs.

If their individual attempts at clarification fall short, I think Anandtech, Cb, NVN, THG, TR, and other influential 3D sites should get together and present nV (and the media, like The Inq) with a letter demanding a full accounting of why their PR fell short of their hardware. (All of them signing the same letter would also sort of cover their butts from retaliation by nV in the form of no preview samples for launch-date reviews, although I'm not sure I'd mind this too much.) Sure, this sounds like a rather drastic action--particularly from an industry that depends on IHVs to supply them with review cards--but it's been half a year since the 6800 has been released, and I think (what appears to be a large number of) 6800 owners deserve an answer. It doesn't seem wise to allow IHVs to sell cards on features that aren't available until the next gen rolls around, and neither does it seem wise to burn your early ($400-500+) adopters.

I'm butting--ahem, bowing out, now, as I don't own a 6800, and so am not directly affected. I'm just concerned that this doesn't become a typical occurence that gets blamed on intense competition or whatnot. Heck, I'm still not sure if F-buffer works or is used in any title, or why it's OGL-only (it'd be interesting if they could use it to support FC's PS3.0 path).

Edit: I'm pretty sure I remember nV mentioning WMV acceleration and whatnot, but a quick search shows that this slide technically acquits them, in that they support MPEG2 de/encode (albeit "hi def" decode and only "def" [] encode). I'm not inclined to review launch video for a mention of WMV acceleration.

 

[theslug]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: theslug
So basically Nvidia has distributed a defective product, published false advertising, failed to inform the public of said defect, and failed to offer any sort of compensation or recall. They realize the moment they make an official admittance of the defect, that they will be flooded with complaints or requests for replacements. They hope by stalling further (by saying that a driver is on its way), that this whole thing will blow over because eventually they will have newer, working cards, and no one will care about the 6800 anymore.

I say we don't allow that to happen.

Sigh. I asked my buddy at nVidia about this, got this response:

WMV9 HD decode acceleration is just enabled in drivers from NVIDIA. Microsoft has to release a software update for Windows Media Player 10 to enable this. Or in short - the hardware is ready to do its thing, but requires Microsoft to issue a software update for WMP 10.

So this indicates the processor does work, and it is indeed a software issue? There just seems to be a whole lot of conflicting information. My previous comments were based on most people's idea that nvidia is hiding something, but really there's no knowing what to believe until we get an official statement.

 

[rbV5]

Edit: I'm pretty sure I remember nV mentioning WMV acceleration and whatnot, but a quick search shows that this slide technically acquits them,

Pete, their own site still promotes the features of the PVP (note that this Last Updated: Oct 21, 2004 Link )


[/quote] On-Chip Video Processor

Video Decoding
A key element of modern-day video processing, MPEG-2 is the basis for such functions as DVD playback. Through advanced technology functions such as motion compensation and inverse discrete cosine transformation (IDCT), the GeForce 6 Series GPUs handle MPEG-2 decoding very efficiently, offloading the CPU of the heavy lifting involved in video playback. The result is smooth, high-quality video and reduced power usage.

Another important factor is that the GeForce 6 Series GPUs are completely programmable and can handle formats such as WMV9 and MPEG-4. The NVIDIA motion compensation engine can provide decompression acceleration for a variety of video formats including WMV9, MPEG-4, H.264, and DiVX. As with motion compensation for MPEG-2, the NVIDIA video engine can perform most of the computation-intensive work, leaving the easiest work to the CPU.

 

[nRollo]

To me, this whole topic seems like "much ado about nothing".

I'm not into video editing and creation, but it seems to me when the 6800 was being pimped all that was promoted was MPEG encoding acceleration.

The only video I watch on my computer is pRon, but is there some reason to care if WMV is accelerated? If your cpu can handle the chore, is there reason to care about this? Or am I missing somethign and there's great numbers of you who bought these gaming card to create WMV files primarily, and you want the best performance possible?

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: Rollo
To me, this whole topic seems like "much ado about nothing".

I'm not into video editing and creation, but it seems to me when the 6800 was being pimped all that was promoted was MPEG encoding acceleration.

The only video I watch on my computer is pRon, but is there some reason to care if WMV is accelerated? If your cpu can handle the chore, is there reason to care about this? Or am I missing somethign and there's great numbers of you who bought these gaming card to create WMV files primarily, and you want the best performance possible?

Whuh? Of course I want the best performance possible, and equally important I want the features listed to perform as advertised. Why is this so hard for some of you guys to understand? Moreover, why does it matter so much how >I< approach this matter? If it doesn't affect you, the way you run your machine or your sensibilites as a consumer why not just move on?

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: theslug

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: theslug
So basically Nvidia has distributed a defective product, published false advertising, failed to inform the public of said defect, and failed to offer any sort of compensation or recall. They realize the moment they make an official admittance of the defect, that they will be flooded with complaints or requests for replacements. They hope by stalling further (by saying that a driver is on its way), that this whole thing will blow over because eventually they will have newer, working cards, and no one will care about the 6800 anymore.

I say we don't allow that to happen.

Sigh. I asked my buddy at nVidia about this, got this response:

WMV9 HD decode acceleration is just enabled in drivers from NVIDIA. Microsoft has to release a software update for Windows Media Player 10 to enable this. Or in short - the hardware is ready to do its thing, but requires Microsoft to issue a software update for WMP 10.

So this indicates the processor does work, and it is indeed a software issue? There just seems to be a whole lot of conflicting information. My previous comments were based on most people's idea that nvidia is hiding something, but really there's no knowing what to believe until we get an official statement.

Slug, how reliable is this info from your friend? Is there anyway your friend could at least give us some help on how to approach nVidia to either get the FULL truth if he is indeed correct or on how to get nVidia to fix this situation somehow?

 

[theslug]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: theslug

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: theslug
So basically Nvidia has distributed a defective product, published false advertising, failed to inform the public of said defect, and failed to offer any sort of compensation or recall. They realize the moment they make an official admittance of the defect, that they will be flooded with complaints or requests for replacements. They hope by stalling further (by saying that a driver is on its way), that this whole thing will blow over because eventually they will have newer, working cards, and no one will care about the 6800 anymore.

I say we don't allow that to happen.

Sigh. I asked my buddy at nVidia about this, got this response:

WMV9 HD decode acceleration is just enabled in drivers from NVIDIA. Microsoft has to release a software update for Windows Media Player 10 to enable this. Or in short - the hardware is ready to do its thing, but requires Microsoft to issue a software update for WMP 10.

So this indicates the processor does work, and it is indeed a software issue? There just seems to be a whole lot of conflicting information. My previous comments were based on most people's idea that nvidia is hiding something, but really there's no knowing what to believe until we get an official statement.

Slug, how reliable is this info from your friend? Is there anyway your friend could at least give us some help on how to approach nVidia to either get the FULL truth if he is indeed correct or on how to get nVidia to fix this situation somehow?

That wasn't me, that was Rollo.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Sorry, got confoosed.
Rollo?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
Sorry, got confoosed.
Rollo?

I don't think I understand the question?

I would guess this will be in a press release soon as far as validity of it goes. He said I could post it, so it can't be top secret info.

As far as "nVidia's fix" it looks like you download their new drivers and wait for MS update for WMP10?

What they really need to do is make those shutter glasses work on pRon- 3d Jenna!

 

[jjzelinski]

Ok sorry to sound like an idiot but one of the things that attracted me to this card (evga 6800nu) was that it supported video encoding such as editing a MPEG2 movie. Am I off base here?

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: Rollo
To me, this whole topic seems like "much ado about nothing".

I'm not into video editing and creation, but it seems to me when the 6800 was being pimped all that was promoted was MPEG encoding acceleration.

The only video I watch on my computer is pRon, but is there some reason to care if WMV is accelerated? If your cpu can handle the chore, is there reason to care about this? Or am I missing somethign and there's great numbers of you who bought these gaming card to create WMV files primarily, and you want the best performance possible?

How about read the thread?

 

[rbV5]

I'm not into video editing and creation, but it seems to me when the 6800 was being pimped all that was promoted was MPEG encoding acceleration.

Thats BS, they made very specific claims as to what their magic decoder would do...these previews weren't hard to find, and you'll note the info came from Nvidia themselves.

hardwarezone.com 17th April, 2004
Advanced Video and Display Functionality
Dedicated on-chip video processor
MPEG video encode and decode
WMV9 decode acceleration
Advanced adaptive de-interlacing
High quality video scaling and filtering

More in-depth

Here is the list of what NVIDIA claims it is currently capable of:-



Motion Adaptive De-interlacing

Color Space Conversion

Gamma Correction

Inverse Telecine (3:2 pulldown)

Processor Amplifier (Proc Amp)

WMV9/H.264 motion compensation

WMV9/H.264 In-Loop deblocking

Noise Reduction

Frame Rate Conversion

MPEG 1/2/4 Decode/Encode ? SD &amp; HD resolutions

WMV9 Decode/Encode ? including HD resolutions

WMV9 Decode acceleration

DiVX Decode/Encode

High Quality Scaling

Hardware Audio/Video Synchronization
:-

Nvidia NV4x Video Architecture slide from HardOCP April 15, 2004

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: theslug
So basically Nvidia has distributed a defective product, published false advertising, failed to inform the public of said defect, and failed to offer any sort of compensation or recall. They realize the moment they make an official admittance of the defect, that they will be flooded with complaints or requests for replacements. They hope by stalling further (by saying that a driver is on its way), that this whole thing will blow over because eventually they will have newer, working cards, and no one will care about the 6800 anymore.
I say we don't allow that to happen.

Hey, it worked for IBM with their 75GXP drives.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: gururu
does the box on 6800-based products claim hardware-based decoding? if it does, then its going to be a long hard road. if they don't, then there is not much to do about it. i think nowadays, cpus are so fast that gpu video isn't really necessary

Your right. CPUs are just so bloody fast these days, that no hardware acceleration is needed, for anything.
Why don't you just rip out your 3D card, and stick in a nice 2D-only card, like a Matrox Millenium, and play Doom3 and FarCry on that. I mean, who cares if the hardware acceleration works or not. Everyone who wants to get and use what they paid for, is really just an annoying whiner, right?

Originally posted by: gururu
, so aside from principle, I don't see such a big deal. I think it is a poor reflection on nVidia. My gut tells me that there must be a fix, even though sites are claiming hardware or silicin defect. We'll have to hear from them. Maybe they'll offer some free video decoder cards.

My knowledge of the industry, and of the current fierce competition in this market forcing companies to "paper launch" products before they are ready, along with the complexity-level of the chip involved, tells me that it is highly likely that the hardware itself is simply FUBAR.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: Rollo
As far as "nVidia's fix" it looks like you download their new drivers and wait for MS update for WMP10?

What they really need to do is make those shutter glasses work on pRon- 3d Jenna!

I know it's OT, but there is a software-based DVD player that does some processing on the video to attempt to 3D-ify the output. I've never tried it, but it does exist.

The truth is, if what NV is claiming about requiring a software patch for WMP10 to enable it is true, then why does the feature already appear to be functional on 6600 boards, without some nebulous future patch applied? I call BS on that one, big-time.

 

[BentValve]

Sorry if I have not read every post in this thread but my HW acceleration works fine for DVDs, in fact its the best looking DVD HW acceleration I have ever seen. CPU usage is 3% or less and GPU temp rise.

I just got my 6800 OC today.


What portions of the video are supposedly broken?

 

[imported_kouch]

read again mpeg2 (dvd) works fine. It is the .wmv or hdtv decode/encode that is broken in 6800 cards.

 

[gsellis]

The Inquirer has not dropped it. I got a reply from them late yesterday from Fuad, aka Fudo, that they are still looking into it.

I normally do not jump into the fanboy stuff, but...

Rollo - You jumped all over ATI's 'trylinear'. Now nVidia is blowing smoke on something that may actually be a hardware problem and you refer to it as "much ado about nothing". You are failing to grasp the nVidia has falsely claimed that the hardware supports WMV decode/encode. It was a selling point for some people. I almost recommend a business purchase based on this feature for a customer contact product and nVidia told me it was there on the 6800 AGP. What they could not tell me was the percentage of CPU off-load. We know the answer to that now, 0%.

Also recognize that WMV-HD is a DVD-HD supported format. I have a HD editor and will probably have a HD camera within 6 months. I have access to HD content that I am going to include and down-convert (this year's marching band video is SD DVD). Currently, all of my web stuff is WMV which I convert out of my NLE or from WME9. With VHS quality, on a dual, conversion is not that slow. But add HD content later, and times will increase. Unless I find a strong reason, my plans are to use WMV-HD as my HD standard for DVD when it is supported in the set-tops. A hardware encoder/decoder comes in handy. Just so you can have something to compare, creation of the MPEG-2 files using TMPGEnc on the best quality settings takes 8 hours for 1 1/2 hours of video. HDV content steams are about 4 times as large.

I now do have to upgrade my video card to a DX9 card (see other post in Video on Pinnacle Liquid requirements started by me.) As of this week, it definitely will not be a nVidia card.

 

[theslug]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry

Originally posted by: theslug
So basically Nvidia has distributed a defective product, published false advertising, failed to inform the public of said defect, and failed to offer any sort of compensation or recall. They realize the moment they make an official admittance of the defect, that they will be flooded with complaints or requests for replacements. They hope by stalling further (by saying that a driver is on its way), that this whole thing will blow over because eventually they will have newer, working cards, and no one will care about the 6800 anymore.
I say we don't allow that to happen.

Hey, it worked for IBM with their 75GXP drives.

Wasn't there a class action lawsuit against them for that?