Geforce 7800 GTX AGP Petition

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Insomniak

Banned
Sep 11, 2003
4,836
0
0
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Wow, that's deep.


No need for deep. My position is simply that anyone involved in computer hardware has no license to complain when technology moves forward faster than they like. It's the nature of the medium. This is like taking up sketching as a hobby and then being displeased that you have to erase sometimes.

Buy new motherboards.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
Originally posted by: TwYsTeD
Originally posted by: Mesix
Just get a new motherboard.

QFT

AGP needs to die.

Yeah? Tell that to everyone who has P4 3.0ghz or faster S478, A64 3000+ or faster S754, or A64 3000+ on S939 AGP system. Since the majority of games are graphics-card limited, it makes a lot more sense for these users to simply upgrade the videocard. How much more money would it be for Nvidia to make these cards? Given that they make like $300US per each ultra high-end card, I doubt this is a problem.

New motherboard is $100US. A64 3000+ is $150. That's $250 extra for same performance as a 2 year-old P4 3.2ghz. $250 into the toilet just to be able to have 7800GTX plugged in?

Given that most graphics intensive games ie. Doom 3 and Far cry at 99% graphics card limited, it makes little sense for AGP users with high-end systems to throw away perfectly good hardware.

FX57 = P4 3.2ghz in Doom 3 and Far Cry - the most intensive games out today.

I find it amusing how some hardware sites continue to claim that you need the fastest cpu you can get for top-end graphics cards, and every new graphics card release, the benchmarks just continue to show otherwise. Sure in less-graphical intensive games like wolfenstein and UT2k4 the cpu makes a greater difference. But who the hell cares if you are getting 200 or 150 frames.
 

DerelictDev

Senior member
Feb 19, 2005
358
0
0
Bleh let AGP die and this is from someone who currently has AGP. Its an outdated socket and ill upgrade as well sooner or later.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
Originally posted by: DerelictDev
Bleh let AGP die and this is from someone who currently has AGP. Its an outdated socket and ill upgrade as well sooner or later.

I agree AGP should die; but after G70 and R520. At that point any current system will become too slow for next generation videocards. Right now top P4 and A64 systems with aGP are perfectly fine for G70 and R520.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
Originally posted by: RussianSensation
Originally posted by: DerelictDev
Bleh let AGP die and this is from someone who currently has AGP. Its an outdated socket and ill upgrade as well sooner or later.

I agree AGP should die; but after G70 and R520. At that point any current system will become too slow for next generation videocards. Right now top P4 and A64 systems with aGP are perfectly fine for G70 and R520.

Why are people not screaming like this to kill off IDE? SATA to IDE is the same performance difference as going from AGP to PCI-E (when not using SLI).
 

Grimbor

Member
Apr 8, 2005
41
0
0
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Originally posted by: RussianSensation
Originally posted by: DerelictDev
Bleh let AGP die and this is from someone who currently has AGP. Its an outdated socket and ill upgrade as well sooner or later.

I agree AGP should die; but after G70 and R520. At that point any current system will become too slow for next generation videocards. Right now top P4 and A64 systems with aGP are perfectly fine for G70 and R520.

Why are people not screaming like this to kill off IDE? SATA to IDE is the same performance difference as going from AGP to PCI-E (when not using SLI).

Because SATA drives are being churned out now and old school IDE drives are warehoused by the millions because they have been produced the same for the last several years (7200 rpms), thus remain dirt cheap and will for a while. Also, saying the performace difference between IDE and SATA is not noticable might be true, unless you have a MB that supports a 10000 RPM, like the raptor. The difference is extreme in games and almost everything else. I boot from cold to full in under 5 seconds, my 7200 rpm on my old system took literally 40 seconds, most of this is due to the better HD.

For Nvidia to cater to the AGP users in their highest end cards of this generation, they would have to manufacture, package, test, make drivers for, and distribute them. This would drive up the cost of PCIe cards and vendors will eventually miscalculate stock on one or the other, driving up prices further.

Also, most techie believe the PCIe cards will benefit more from an increase in memory, certain tweaks in the drivers, and possibly the opening of 32 pipes over any AGP counterpart. If manufacturers had to worry about differing levels of performance between identicle cards, they very well might hold off on any tech upgrade that did this and simply wait for the next gen when everyone is PCIe compliant.

People who have very cutting edge systems with a socket 745 A64 are pretty rare and many of those were warned repeatedly that they should go 939 just so they could either have a PCIe MB or the option to get one cheap later and keep their old CPU. These were the same people who ridiculed everyone else and bragged that they saved $50 over the equivalent 939 CPU and MB and that their 745 was slightly faster then the equivalent rated 939 A64.

Most people who would benefit from this generation of vid card already have a CPU that can go into a inexpensive PCIe board and they also already have the correct ram to use with it. People with high end propriatary systems already have PCIe slots or they have a system that would be bottlenecked by this gen anyways.

All Nvidia and ATI would accomplish by releasing AGP variants on this generation would be to turn an initial larger profit and then slowly bleed money over the transition period from AGP to PCIe. Better to force those who want this gen to go PCIe now and concentrate on making just one card for each price range and a easier unified driver code. They would make more money over the long run by forcing AGP to die ASAP.

The old PCI to AGP was a total pain for manufacturers and consumers. People were buying propriatory compaqs and the like 3 years into the AGP life cycle that came with PCI cards or integrated graphics with only a PCI option and they were looking at more money to by a older PCI card then a newer gen AGP card. PCIe is here to stay, so let AGP R.I.P.
 

mrphones

Golden Member
Jul 2, 2001
1,431
0
71
Originally posted by: HDTVMan
I pass on anything wanting the e-mail address. Why because I manage to get a ton of spam after that.

Who said you have to use "Your Actual" email address... Come on wake up...
 

jiffylube1024

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
7,430
0
71
Originally posted by: RussianSensation
Originally posted by: TwYsTeD
Originally posted by: Mesix
Just get a new motherboard.

QFT

AGP needs to die.

Yeah? Tell that to everyone who has P4 3.0ghz or faster S478, A64 3000+ or faster S754, or A64 3000+ on S939 AGP system. Since the majority of games are graphics-card limited, it makes a lot more sense for these users to simply upgrade the videocard. How much more money would it be for Nvidia to make these cards? Given that they make like $300US per each ultra high-end card, I doubt this is a problem.

New motherboard is $100US. A64 3000+ is $150. That's $250 extra for same performance as a 2 year-old P4 3.2ghz. $250 into the toilet just to be able to have 7800GTX plugged in?

Given that most graphics intensive games ie. Doom 3 and Far cry at 99% graphics card limited, it makes little sense for AGP users with high-end systems to throw away perfectly good hardware.

FX57 = P4 3.2ghz in Doom 3 and Far Cry - the most intensive games out today.

A Tom's hardware roundup at 1280X1024 is hardly the authority on what is CPU limited. Also, In this benchmark, they are clearly GPU limited since they get about the same results with all CPU's (79-82fps). This is obviously the stock 6800GT they are running in the test holding them back; a 7800GTX is a considerably more powerful card that benefits much more from a faster CPU.

Anandtech did a much more comprehensive test on CPU scaling and found that Half Life 2 scales quite well with increased CPU power on the Athlon64 (the A64 itself is usually 10-20% faster than a comparably rated P4).

Any look at a semi-recent Anandtech CPU article, such as this one shows how much faster the Athlon64 platform is (remember to ignore the ridiculously rare P4 EE scores, which are still desparately lagging in many cases; also, how many people even have the 3.8 Ghz P4 with the throttling problems?)

A quick glance at that second AT article shows such differences as 171fps for the A64 3800+ 148fps in HL2 on a 3.8 GHz P4; Doom3 for those same CPU's is 97.3vs 87.1 fps . With overclocking, the gap widens significantly since most 3000+ and 3200+ chips are getting 2.6-2.7 GHz (and this is often with very fast 250-300 MHz DDR), while the average P4 3 or 3.2 GHz tops out at 4 Ghz, max.

With the move to dual core, currently, the gap widens significantly, since Intel's dual cores are back down in the 2.8-3.2 Ghz range (and overclock to 3.5 or so), while AMD's dual cores run at 1.8-2.4 Ghz (and all seem to be overclocking around the 2.5's).
 

Rock Hydra

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2004
6,466
1
0
I personally couldn't wait for AGP to be rid of. A dedicated bus for the alotment of only ONE video card with the ability of high performance.
Let me be the first to say, I will be happy the day AGP is retired.
 
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