Geforce FX 5200 for TV out or Geforce 3 or ATI 9000...some thoughts please...

[BuddyHolly]

OK, I have a computer that is hooked to my 32" tv for playing back movies, dvd, music etc over my network from my big computer. Problem is the old TNT 2 may be dying. The picture is getting worse, and it was not great to begin with.

OK, I don't play many games on this, but I could. It is a 1.1ghz Celeron running winXP. I was just going to replace the card with a ATI 7500 and be done with it. Then I noticed the Geforce 3 goes for about $77 at newegg. I then saw that the FX 5200 non pro was $70 new and is about at the speed of the Geforce 3 with much better AA. Well, I looked at benchmarks, which were not great, but I will only be running this thing at 640x480 or so. I thought at that low res the FX 5200 may be ok for DX9 games.

Has anyone seen the TV out on one of these? I have seen the TV out on the ATI 7500 and it was pretty good. TV out on the GeForce 3 was also pretty nice, but I am not real picky.

Having a DX9 card seems at that low res seems like a decent deal for $70. Not my choice for anything else, but lets hear what everyone else has to say.

Thanks!!!

 

[SpeedFreak03]

I've tried S-Vid out on 3 different cards, and they all seem crappy (for text) to begin with, but look great with movies and games!

 

[BuddyHolly]

Yea, I guess I should have been more specific. I know the text under Windows is fuzzy on all of them. Matrox is supposed to be the best, but I just can't pay that much for a 2d card when I can get the ATI 7500 so cheap. The real pull is having a very modern DX9 card for only $70, even thought I really don't know if I will every play anything much on it. I do think it should play Doom III decent at 640x480 on the big screen.
Thanks for the comment.
Who else has a thought?

 

[Odeen]

Radeon 7500 is not a DX9 card. It _is_ supported under DX9, but it doesn't have DX8 or DX9 features (pixel/vertex shaders, etc).

 

[BuddyHolly]

Odeen, thanks. I know the 7500 is not dx8 or dx9 complient. That is my cheap fall back. I can just thought I might add a little bit to get a lot more card. I guess I should have said the ati 8500/9100 instead...maybe I will do that...

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

I forgot the chip numbers, but if you get an Nvidia card, get one with either the Conexant chipset that will do up to 1024x768, or the Philips that will do up to 1280x1024 (these may only come on (non-VIVO) GF4's though). I've looked at screenies of the FX 5200's and all that I've seen lack a seperate TV chip, so I'd avoid those. The Radeon 7500 might be your safest bet if game performance is not a concern. Stay away from the 8500/9100, bad TV out on those. I've seen it first-hand, and there's a huge (but old) thread on it at Rage3d.com.

 

[Mingon]

I have a plain vanilla geforce 3 in my shuttle box, the tv - out is amazing in comparison to other cards I have tried (both ati and nvdia). I use it for gaming at 800*600 and splinter cell at medium detail level runs around 35-40fps minimum. If you do get a nvdia card I would suggest paying $15 for TVtool a piece of sharware which is excellent and give you all the overscan etc options you would ever need.

 

[BuddyHolly]

Thanks for the replies. I have heard that the ATI 8500/9100 TV out was not great. I have also heard that the Geforce 3 was much better than any of the other Nvidia cards mostly due to the Phillips or Conexant chip for TV decoding. I really with someone with the knowledge and equipment (ie Anandtech) would do a article on TV out. I keep searching for a good review on a range of card, but there is never anything definitive.
OK, any suggestions on which ATI 7500 card has the best TV out? I am leaning towards the Gainward GeForce 3 at Newegg that has some really good things to be said about the TV out, but I really want to know which of the ATI 7500's are best.
I will have to check on the TVtool software since I am not familar with it. Hey, maybe it can "cure" my dying TNT 2!!!...
Yea, right...
Thanks everyone, keep the coments coming...

 

[bluemax]

Not trying to hijack the thread, I think the original poster would appreciate this question:

Regardless of all other factors, what video cards, in general or specific, have the best TV output?

I was always under the impression that most people on here agreed ATI cards produced better TV output than nVidia cards... maybe that's not specific enough though, if some nVidia cards have great TV and some ATI cards do not.
If there's need, maybe a new thread will spring up from it.

I need to know because my Shuttle SK41G will be a multimedia box displaying PowerPoints as well as movies and video clips... sometimes in VGA mode, sometimes in TV mode - depending on the projector I'm using.

 

[BuddyHolly]

Bluemax, I don't mind at all. That is I guess what I really want to know, but there seems to be no good, through articles on which TV out is best and why. I can find pleanty of info on the 3d aspects the cards, but I really wish that the major review sites would at least include a small blurb about the TV out of the cards since it seems an ever growing number of enthusiast are going this route.
Thanks everyone, please keep the comments coming...

 

[Mingon]

OK here is my list (from my shuttle boxes) and ratings out of 10 for text and video

s3 savage (sv25 onboard) 5, 7
Ati radeon 9000 pci 6.5, 7
Gef4mx 440 pci 7, 7.5 (because of digital vibrance)
Nforce 2 (sn41 onboard) 7, 7
Geforce 4 ti4200 7,7
Geforce 3 9,9 - I dont even know the make but looks like a gainward clone (i.e. gainward used to make OEM cards so this could be an elsa / msi)

If you go to the Tvtool website they can tell you which chip gives the best tv out

 

[bluemax]

Man... I never would have suspected a GF3 to have such good TV output!! I need good quality for what I'm doing and a GF3 is plenty of gaming power for me.

What should I look for?

 

[BuddyHolly]

Yea, here is what I found out about the Gainward Geforce3. It uses the Conexant CX25871 TV processor chip, which seems to be far the favorite over at http://tvtool.info/. It has a much better picture and offers much higher resolutions.
Here is a good picture of the chip itself on one of the cards Gainward Geforce 3 pic with Conexant chip

What else I found is that is is damn near impossible to find out which cards have this chip and which don't.
ATI does not seem to use them in the 7500, or any 3 party tv out chip.
There was a good bit of discussion on the mx440 and that these had built in TV out that was pretty good.

But I have seen a lot of talk about the Gainward Geforce 3 card having the best TV out around, especially for the price...

Oh, I also read that the Conexant CX25871 was the chip used by the X-Box to output to TV...hey, if it is good enough for Bill Gates...

 

[BuddyHolly]

Here is a little more on the Conexant chip. Conexant Chip info in Businesswire
I did find it interesting that it cost an extra $7~$10 US to put that 3rd party TV out chip on there.
I thinks some of the GeForce 4 cards have it also.
Oh, one article said the FX5200 had an integrated controler similar to the mx440/n17

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Originally posted by: BuddyHolly
Yea, here is what I found out about the Gainward Geforce3. It uses the Conexant CX25871 TV processor chip, which seems to be far the favorite over at http://tvtool.info/. It has a much better picture and offers much higher resolutions.
Here is a good picture of the chip itself on one of the cards Gainward Geforce 3 pic with Conexant chip

What else I found is that is is damn near impossible to find out which cards have this chip and which don't.
ATI does not seem to use them in the 7500, or any 3 party tv out chip.
There was a good bit of discussion on the mx440 and that these had built in TV out that was pretty good.

But I have seen a lot of talk about the Gainward Geforce 3 card having the best TV out around, especially for the price...

Oh, I also read that the Conexant CX25871 was the chip used by the X-Box to output to TV...hey, if it is good enough for Bill Gates...

I've had three Gainward GF3's. None of the TV outs worked, and 2 of them had chips other than the Conexant. I wouldn't take a chance, unless you can get one of a FS/T forum where the seller can confirm the chip and if it works.

 

[BuddyHolly]

Gonad, thanks for the comments. That certainly gives me pause. Do you have any other suggestions? The one with the Conexect chip, how was the TV out?
Does anyone have any suggestions on a way to get a card with Conexect TV out?
Man, this is really getting to be more of a quest than I would have expected. If you had a good add on TV out chip you would think that it would be something to use in your PR...
Thanks in advance...

 

[touchmyichi]

Just do a favor and speed a little more and get either a radeon 8500 or if u can really afford it, a geforce 4 ti 4200. Actually just buy a geforce 4 ti 4200. The extra 20-30 dollars will go a long way.

 

[BuddyHolly]

I like the 8500, and it has its fans for TV out, but for the most part it is not a favorite. The speed of the 4200 is not really a big deal to me. I had a Geforce 3 ti200 (of course, I did not check what I thought of the TV out at the time) and a 4200 (same, no idea about the TV out). I am now running a flashed 9700 ati overclocked to the 9700 pro speeds. This is my game machine. I MAY piddle around with some games, but I really want the best TV out I can get.
I thought I had a sure thing in the Geforce 3, but now Gonad has set me back a bit. The "good" 4200's with TV out are much more expensive and just as much of a crapshoot if not more so.
This threat is really great though. It has helped me hash through what I am thinking about. But, it has now become more of a quest for a video card with the damn Conexant CX25871 chip...
I still think if I spent an extra $7~$10 per card I would at least make note of it somewhere...
I am still on my quest for the holy grail. Keep up the good coments, and I will keep up my findings until everyone is so damn sick of me that they will just buy me a card to shut me up....
Thanks for the comments..

 

[bluemax]

I'll be right along side of you. I need a card with top-notch TV output for my multimedia-machine Shuttle box. Gaming speed is secondary to the primary task of multimedia output and possibly INPUT.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Originally posted by: BuddyHolly
Gonad, thanks for the comments. That certainly gives me pause. Do you have any other suggestions? The one with the Conexect chip, how was the TV out?
Does anyone have any suggestions on a way to get a card with Conexect TV out?
Man, this is really getting to be more of a quest than I would have expected. If you had a good add on TV out chip you would think that it would be something to use in your PR...
Thanks in advance...

I went through probably 10 or so cards finding one that would be acceptable for my HTPC, so yes, it can be quite a chore. I finally settled on a Hercules GF3 with the Conexent chip off the FS/T forum here and it has served me well. I also had a MSI GF4 4200 with the new Philips chipset at one point, which I must say was on par or better than this Conexant, but the card just put out too much heat for my HTPC case. Since this probably wouldn't be an issue for a normal case, I'd really recommend trying to get one of those. It will be more expensive, but you'll have a much easier time tracking one of those down over a GF3 with the Conexant chipset unless, as I said before, you can find one on a FS/T forum. Another option may be the Radeon 9000. I've seen a few people on avsforum.com using it in their HTPC, but I can't comment on the TV out quality (I don't think it uses the usual ATI theatre chipset) or game performance.

Also, you might want to check out this chart, it lists most GF4 brands and the TV chipset they use:
http://itc.ua/img/dpk/2002/8/geforce.htm

Again also, the Philips chipset I've been referring to is the SAA7104E.

 

[BuddyHolly]

Thanks again Gonad, I am glad to hear that I am on the right track and that it is worth the extra effort. I think will have to look into the ati 9000 a little more.
On a side note, I got looking through my drawer of broken bits, and I drug out an old Geforce 2 MSI card with TV out. Of course, it had the Conexant chip, which does me absolulely no good since the card fried itself over a year ago.
Anyone out there tried the ATI 9000 series?
Gonad, is there really that big a difference in the quality? I am on a quest to find the best, but I really have only seen TV out on a ATI 7500 (I don't remember what it looked like) and my old TNT2, so my range of knowledge is pretty low.

 

[Guspaz]

If you REALLY want the best video output, there is no question that component out is the way to go. As far as I know, you have three options:

1) Buy the ATI VGA->component dongle, and an ATI videocard that supports it
2) Buy a VGA->component converter (can be expensive)
3) Buy a PCI card with component-out.

S-VIDEO and composite simply can't hold a candle to component video. The specs of your TV also matter. What can they handle? 480i? 480p? Better? (If it has component inputs, it MUST support at least 480i)

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

I forgot all about ATI's component dongle. This may be the way to go, though I have never used it. I do know a lot of people have reported that the Radeon 8500/9100 looks fine when using the dongle, so that may be an option that falls within your budget. The 9000 isn't officially supported by the dongle, but some people have been able to get it to work with a driver hack. You can probably get more info that will help you with your decision from the HTPC forum at avsforum.com.

Here's one specific thread I see that you might want to look at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=83fe2dad78d0816df600292dacb98e84&threadid=257864

 

[BuddyHolly]

Good suggestions, but I don't want to mess with the composite connection. My TV has that on one of the inputs at least. It is not a high dollar tv, just a regular 32", but I want the best picture out of the car possible. While I am not opposed to driver hacks and the like, I don't want to do too much to this machine. It is what I call "Frankenstein". It is just the motherboard and various parts where the stereo equipment used to go behind some glass doors in a very piece of oak furniture. The board is an old Abit BH6 and an overclocked Celeron doing about 1000 mhz. I don't think it will like one of the totally new 8xAGP cards very much, so have not tried my Radeon 9700pro yet, though I may to see how it works.
I really just need to do some more research and keep my eye out for a card with the Conexant chip or somthing similar. I have built so many computers for people, and never once looked at the TV out. I promise you that I WILL hook every new video card I get in from now on up to see what I think of the TV out.
Any other suggestions? Like I said, this has become more of a quest than a need at this point...
Thanks again, keep the comments coming if anyone can think of anything to add..

 

[Guspaz]

I'm a bit confused... You don't want to do composite? What does that have to do with component? Do you mean you don't want to do component? Why not, it's the highest quality way to go, and the ATI dongle is cheap. It will work on any TV that you can plug in a DVD player to; DVD players use 480i, and the dongle supports 480i.