Geforce FX

[grant2]

Originally posted by: AunixM3
"Less noise from ATi."

Do you even KNOW how loud ATi's card is?...Didn't think so.... The Gainward FX is only 6dB louder than the 9700Pro, a difference I'm sure most won't be able to notice.

+6db = 4x as loud. Whether this is "noticeable" or not depends on the original volume. 4x as loud as a whisper isn't much... 4x as loud as a lawnmower is definately noticeable.

 

[oldfart]

Originally posted by: Rollo
Still no takers. Added this deal:
R9700 Pro/20GB WD HDD/SB Audigy/4X4X24 SmartnFriendly CDRW +$25

If no one jumps that, I think I've pretty much proven the R9700 Pro isn't "superior" to a FX Ultra. If it was, someone would take my 9700Pro and money/stuff, come out ahead.

Your trading deal proves nothing of the sort. The fact that no one wants to trade has nothing at all to do with how superior the card is or is not. The benchmarks and reviews all over the web are what prove the merits or not of the card. Again how many people do you think actually HAVE ONE HERE? 2? 3? Maybe 5 at the most?

I fail to see how ones willingness to make a trade with you good deal or not, has anything to do with how good or bad a card is. It makes no sense at all.

 

[Rayden]

a sound has to be 10x louder for it to sound like its twice as loud.

so if something is twice as loud it isn't really all that much louder.

as far as decibals. i forget what the numbers are. 10 decibals higher is twice as loud?

i forget.

 

[nRollo]

"I fail to see how ones willingness to make a trade with you good deal or not, has anything to do with how good or bad a card is. It makes no sense at all. "

LOL, of course you're right. I bet in two months I can make this trade in 5 minutes, but by then I won't want to with nV35 sniffing at the door....

 

[Rogozhin]

Rollo

Again I ask this question.

Why did you use Ad Hominem when i was replying to your statement, not made in jest, of a ford being analagous to a radeon 9800?

I did not revert to questioning the validity of your statements by calling you names and making truculent hypothetical propostions about how inane your life is. Why the animosity towards someone who you know nothing about?

I just don't understand these kind of reactions to people's posts. I have nothing against you personally and as soon as I make a statement about the FX getting whomped by the 9800 out you come with your guns blazing.

Maybe you should have discussed Jung instead of Plato in your little pub.

Rogo

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Rollo ur a funnah guy

 

[Rogozhin]

"If no one jumps that, I think I've pretty much proven the R9700 Pro isn't "superior" to a FX Ultra. If it was, someone would take my 9700Pro and money/stuff, come out ahead."

If someone does buy it that would imply that the radeon 9700 is superior, but your judgment would depend on the perception of the party trading with you and this is the logical fallacy "converse accident." Generalizing from one particular case to a universal conclusion.

Basic Logic, the foundation of law.

That's an invalid conclusion-"If no one jumps that, I think I've pretty much proven the R9700 Pro isn't "superior" to a FX Ultra."

Besides the fact that no one cares wether or not you think the 9700 is superior or inferior to the FX.

Rogo

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Also you've thrown in all those other variables, you don't know that they want to get your $25 because they think the 5800 Ultra is a POS and would rather have $25 instead, or half of a computer like you're practically offering...

 

[nRollo]

"Again I ask this question.
Why did you use Ad Hominem when i was replying to your statement, not made in jest, of a ford being analagous to a radeon 9800?"
Again I reply:
It's not worth my time to refresh my memory on the long ago forgotten meaning of Ad Hominem, who Dionisidorous is, or the way of the sophist.
Again I reply that the "ford" was not the subject of the analogy, the brand loyalty of the users was.

"I just don't understand these kind of reactions to people's posts"
You should get used to these kinds of reactions, because if you speak like you write, a life of alienation within society awaits you. This is not "guns blazing" this is just the way life is. Unfortunately for us all, Dionisidorous has been largely forgotten by American culture.

"If someone does buy it that would imply that the radeon 9700 is superior, but your judgment would depend on the perception of the party trading with you and this is the logical fallacy "converse accident." Generalizing from one particular case to a universal conclusion."
Err, when I've already "LOL" and admitted I knew there was no logic behind the original statement, the need for analysis is gone?

"Also you've thrown in all those other variables, you don't know that they want to get your $25 because they think the 5800 Ultra is a POS and would rather have $25 instead, or half of a computer like you're practically offering... "
I agree with you BunnyFubbles. While I know the trade doesn't prove anything one way or the other, I had hoped that the common perception a 9700Pro is the better card would help me make the trade. (plus the fact I threw in enough money to buy an Audigy2 or 80GB HDD besides, or half a computer)

I guess I'm not meant to hear the whine of the hair dryer, only the echoes of terms long since forgotten in the 1980s. Oh well.

 

[nRollo]

Well, my curiosity got the better of me and I refreshed my memory on Ad Hominem, and my reply to you is that you are mistaken in your perception that I am using it, and misinterpreting my analogy.

"The only thing that troubles me about you is you seem disturbingly gleeful dreaming of an NV35 crushing the 9800 Pro as soon as April."
Only an ATI employee WOULDN'T be? I buy whatever is best when I upgrade, I don't have any "Jimmy Joe Baker Pickup Truck" mentality about computer parts. ("Gol'Darn Ford- Fix Or Repair Daily! Heehaw!" isn't too far from " compare it to the tyan card that is the latest revision running 400/400. It will eat that pos fx for breakfast in every bench you throw at it-plus it costs the same as the fx. Hee haw"

"Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes an attack on person A.
Therefore A's claim is false. " (Ad Hominem)

I said:
A. Only an ATI employee would be sad if the nV35 crushes the 9800 in April. Straight forward, no rhetoric, plain English truth: If you like hardware, which most of us on Anandtech probably do, you should be happy when anyone advances the technology, no matter which company it is.
B. Your statements are false because they are false, not because you made them. You say a 9800 "eats that POS for breakfast"- hyperbole. It wins some benchmarks, loses others. You say it does this in "every benchmark"- false. I can link you to many benchmarks it loses, and you're more than smart enough to know the danger of speaking in absolutes. My analogy was only meant to say your hyperbole and misrepresentation of the situation was akin to the arguments one might hear over the merits of anything people have brand loyalty to.

So there you have it: your not understanding my position, and making every possible attempt to lure me into a Philos 101-esque debate has wasted 20 minutes of my time. That is why I have avoided answering your question.

 

[Rogozhin]

Proding you to brush up on your logical argumentation is FAR from wasting time. If you have any inclination to study law (or speak on public forums, lecture, or give thesis presentations) then it would behoove you to brush up on your logic. Hell, everyday conversation is full of people trying to persuade you to think like they do based many times on logical fallacies.

"Only an ATI employee would be sad if the nV35 crushes the 9800 in April."

My propostion was never this statement above.

I propounded that the FX get's eaten by the 9800 in most benchmarks. In this I was wrong because I did not stipulate that it was in AA and AF intensive benchmarks. For this I appologize.

My intention was not to mislead people or piss people off by any fanboyism (what you called me in your first post and what I objected to the most, since I too have used many nvidia cards and would have bought an FX if I'd had the cash, as I said in the posts before you became hostile).

I still don't understand your anismosity towards philosophy and pursuit of knowledge in general.

Rogo

 

[bunnyfubbles]

I'd trade you my 5800 Ultra but the fan is great because it drowns out the wife nagging me to get off, that and I don't have one. That's probably the problem right there, anyone own a 5800 Ultra is probably because they are

A. Just like you wanting to explore and play around with it
B. Really really really wanted one because they are nVidia die hards
C. Some noob goes out and makes an uneducated purchase

A person from category "A" might trade with you once they are done, because your deal certainly seems to be really good especially if they are in need of a good gaming card with low noise plus a HDD and a CD Burner and some spare cash, lol

Someone from category "B" probably won't want to trade because they really want the card and they forked out a lot of money to get it, even if they aren't entirely happy with the performance, getting used hardware (epsecially parts they don't really need) might not seem like a fair deal after forking out around $400.

You're best bet is probably category "C" but then I doubt you'll be able to find any, at least not easily on these forums.

 

[MadTom]

Originally posted by: Rayden
a sound has to be 10x louder for it to sound like its twice as loud.

so if something is twice as loud it isn't really all that much louder.

as far as decibals. i forget what the numbers are. 10 decibals higher is twice as loud?

i forget.

3dB louder is twice as loud, 6dB louder is 4xloud...

 

[Rogozhin]

I guess that the catalyst () for your truculent reaction to my post was-"the 9800 eats the POS fx for breakfast"

But it is subjective and since my perception of the speed and IQ of a video card comes from playing at a resolution of 1024x768 with 4x aa and 16x AF where the fx does get beat badly, I still should have made this clear in my initial post.

Philosophy as well as history, lexicology, philology, and the study of Latin (even though a dead language) are all worthwhile endeavors even in modern society.

Rogo

 

[nRollo]

"Philosophy as well as history, lexicology, philology, and the study of Latin (even though a dead language) are all worthwhile endeavors even in modern society.
"
As a guy who spent many a stoned hour reading Milton, Blake, Rimbeaud, Aquinas, Nietsche, and many more than I can remember, I agree it's that knowledge for the sake of knowledge has value. Try to make a living with it outside of law or academia though.

 

[chsh1ca]

Rollo, I think the overall point is that anyone here who goes out and buys the FX5800 Ultra and has it wouldn't trade you because they WANT the FX5800 Ultra. For whatever reasons (few of them logic-derived IMO), they wanted that card, and are not likely to make the trade you suggest -- which is actually undercutting the price of the FX5800U seriously from an economic standpoint IMHO. The V2 SLi, the Banshee, and FAKK2 + $75 are worth about $90. Add that to ~$250, and that's still short of the $399 someone would spend on the FX5800. Why not just return it and buy an R9800 Pro at the same price at that point?

As has been pointed out, how many people here, the avid gamer types, actually do own an GeForce FX5800, and how many actually own an R9800 Pro? I think I'm going to make a poll...

 

[nRollo]

"For whatever reasons (few of them logic-derived IMO), they wanted that card, and are not likely to make the trade you suggest -- which is actually undercutting the price of the FX5800U seriously from an economic standpoint IMHO. The V2 SLi, the Banshee, and FAKK2 + $75 are worth about $90. Add that to ~$250, and that's still short of the $399 someone would spend on the FX5800. Why not just return it and buy an R9800 Pro at the same price at that point?"

There are a few problems with this logic:
A. You assume they are within the return period
B. The two used Ultras that have sold on the board went for $340, $360, not $399.99.
C. My second offer (R9700 Pro/20GB WD HDD/SB Audigy/4X4X24 SmartnFriendly CDRW +$25) puts it in that range? Perhaps $40 for an Audigy Gamer, $20 for the drive, $10 for the CDRW +$25)

Last but not least, I say this: in a month or two, I could make this trade in 5 minutes. Why? Because the only thing a person who makes it loses is the noise from the Ultra, and a few fps in some situations where the losss would be undetectable in use anyway.
What would they gain?
Some say 9700Pro IQ is better.
For sure, R9700 can do some AA/AF better. (which seems to be the deciding factor for many of you)
A 20GB hdd, big enough for a backup rig, perhaps a main rig depending on needs.
An Audigy Gamer. An excellent sound card, and a HUGE upgrade if you were using MANY other sound cards.
A spare CDRW, always useful.
$25 enough money to buy 8 pints of my favorite beer, and get drunk 2-3 times.

Now why is it again this isn't a good trade if you're past the return on your Ultra?

 

[chsh1ca]

Hmm, is *ANYONE* past their return time? What's the average return if you don't like it time? A week? A month?

The latter is a more impressive offering, but still, I could probably pick those parts you mentioned up for the same in Canadian dollars, which is 1.5:1 for USD.

 

[BFG10K]

A. I have perfect Heatware and Egay references

That doesn't really mean anything to me because I am not on those references.

B. I'm a 39 year old with a wife and 3 year old. I'll give whoever I make this trade with my home phone number and the address of the home I own. (both easy enough to verify) Do you honestly think it's worth a $350- $400 VGA to me to expose my family to someone who isn't happy with the way I treated them in a business deal?

I have no idea and I'm not willing to find out either.

Whether you like me or not, you can trust me

The concept of liking you, just like trusting you, doesn't exist in this situation since I only really know you from text characters typed on a screen. To me you're just an online character with the ability to type whatever he/she pleases. In reality you could either be the same, totally different or something in between to what you type here.

Again it's no offence to you but that's how I treat all anonymous online contacts in general.

. They put a 9700 up against the FX in the alpha build of DooM3(the one built for the R300 demo at E3 last year) and the FX was twice as fast.

Settings?
Image quality?

 

[nRollo]

"That doesn't really mean anything to me because I am not on those references."

Good Lord. You are about the most skeptical untrusting person I have "met". How about this then BFG10K?
You don't trust me but I trust YOU.
If you have a FX Ultra, I will ship to you first in this trade, you can use the stuff to see that it works, then ship me an Ultra.

This is only a VGA we're talking about here, not the transfer of an international industry. We don't need lawyers. $300- $400 either way isn't going to wreck my life.

To tell you the truth, it's at the point now where I'd rather spend $400 on the card, give my 3 year old the 9700Pro, than have typed all these messages. The only reason I don't the June release of nV35 is close enough to taste.

 

[oldfart]

I can offer you my VisionTek Ti4600 VIVO retail with original box + $100 for the 9700P. I'm sure your 3 year old would not notice the difference . PM me if interested.

 

[nRollo]

Sorry Old Fart, it's a good trade, but I really only want a FX Ultra. (and the 3 year already has a Ti4200 ;-) )

 

[nRollo]

Sorry Old Fart, it's a good trade, but I really only want a FX Ultra. (and the 3 year already has a Ti4200 ;-) )

 

[oldfart]

Your kids get the hand me downs too I see. My 5 year old has a Voodoo3 and my 8 year old has a GF3 Ti200.

 

[Zen0ps]

If you want to talk raw speed.

The 500Mhz 5800 ultra is pretty fast, without AA/AF it beats a 9700pro... But then again, the 5800Ultra is like $430-500. Absolutely NO chance of overclocking too (well, maybe 10mhz more if you watercool)

The 400Mhz 5800 non-ultra, which I've seen for around $350 is pretty well slower than a 9700pro in everything.

If you are a diehard Nvidia performance freak fan, I'd say wait for the NV35, the current GFFX line is kinda lame.