Geforce FX

[Rogozhin]

So no reply rollo?

I thought as much

rogo

 

[BFG10K]

Neck and neck with the 97/9800 in most cases

In fillrate limited situations perhaps, but situations which don't really matter and situations which nobody buys a $400 card for. In memory bandwidth situations (induced by cranking up the detail levels) the FX is swallowed up by the 9700 Pro, and it has better image quality too.

And dont give me the AA/AF argument because the higher resolution we go, the less you even need these features. At 1280 x 1024, you would not tell the difference with AA/AF enabled or not, except for the loss in fps.

What a load of garbage.

A card doesn't have to be significantly faster because it came out 6 months later.

Yes it does, otherwise you're 6 months behind the technology curve. Speed is all relative. You also then get into the situation of the competition refreshing their current product and you have no answer, exactly like the 9800 has done.

Err, I use a 9700Pro, that I don't plan on replacing till something that significantly outperforms it comes along?

With all the negative comments against it I sometimes wonder.

Is there a need for one?

Uh yeah there is, especially in this case because nVidia can't get WHQL certification because they're not meeting the DirectX 9.0 spec in terms of FP precision. You might dismiss that but I find it very significant, especially in demonstrating the current mindset of nVidia's driver team.

2. FPS players often don't care much about FSAA

That's true but they do care about anisotropic filtering and high resolutions. FSAA isn't the only memory bandiwdth hog available.

 

[nRollo]

"So no reply rollo?

I thought as much"

Er, because you're not much fun to chat with and need to work on your social skills? Although I admit trying to bring sophists,ancient greeks, and rhetoric into discussions of VGAs is a novel approach, people outside of college lit and philosophy courses just don't speak like that, so you forget the jargon in "real" life. (and there's no money in remembering them, so they're easy to forget) [i.e. it's a specialized knowledge that has no place outside academia]

 

[bunnyfubbles]

u luze <3

 

[nRollo]

". In memory bandwidth situations (induced by cranking up the detail levels) the FX is swallowed up by the 9700 Pro, and it has better image quality too."
I wish someone who had one shared your distaste for it BFG, look:
If 9700Pros are superior, why won't someone trade me for one plus $75, V2 sli, Banshee, and FAKK2?

If I had a FX Ultra, and some guy with good Heatware offered me a card that "swallows it up", plus $75, a decent game, and a VGA rig for a spare computer, I would jump all over it. So far- nothing.

"What a load of garbage."
Hmmm. You must be the only person alive who thinks "jaggies" are as noticeable at high res.

"
Yes it does, otherwise you're 6 months behind the technology curve. Speed is all relative. You also then get into the situation of the competition refreshing their current product and you have no answer, exactly like the 9800 has done."
A. Oh no! No answer? How can you live with not having the fastest VGA for a while?! B. The 9800 is largely irrelevant unless you crank up the AA/AF

"With all the negative comments against it I sometimes wonder."
I don't have anything AGAINST it, just no zombie like devotion to it. Or need to think I made the "one and only right choice". Last year I had a GF3, R8500, V5, GF4, and R9700 as my primary VGA for periods of time during the year. I enjoyed them all equally, especially the V5 which surpassed all my expectations from reviews.

", especially in this case because nVidia can't get WHQL certification because they're not meeting the DirectX 9.0 spec in terms of FP precision"
Oh no! Not WHQL?! Who cares? Carmack uses it to code Doom3, it must not "suxor".

"That's true but they do care about anisotropic filtering and high resolutions"
The GF FX p[erforms great at high res, and pretty good at AF.

 

[oldfart]

Excuse me for stating what seems obvious, but...

If 9700Pros are superior, why won't someone trade me for one plus $75, V2 sli, Banshee, and FAKK2?

Aren't you answering your own question? You are exactly right. It is because the 9700 Pro is a superior card. People don't want the 5800 FX. The $75 and a couple of obsolete video cards are not worth getting an inferior card.

 

[nRollo]

"Aren't you answering your own question? You are exactly right. It is because the 9700 Pro is a superior card. People don't want the 5800 FX. The $75 and a couple of obsolete video cards are not worth getting an inferior card. "

You've missed the point entirely Old Fart.

I am trying to trade a retail 9700 Pro, $75, V2 sli, a Banshee, and Heavy Metal FAKK2 for one "inferior" 5800 Ultra that "nobody wants". No one is offering me a 5800 Ultra for all that stuff.
As you say, the 9700Pro I'm offering is arguably as good/better than a FX Ultra. $75 can almost buy you an Audigy2 these days. The obsolete video cards, while obsolete, will still run games up to the UT/Q3 era fine, and would be ok for a little kids/spare pc. The game isn't the worst I've played.

If "no one wants 5800 Ultras" and 9700Pros are "superior" why won't anyone jump on this deal and come out ahead?

 

[sambao21]

probably because no one ever bought one

 

[oldfart]

OK, I see what you are doing. Well, for one, very few people have the 5800. They just came out and are hard to find. The last guy I know here that bought one sold it the same day because he hated it so much. He might have taken you up on it. Dont know.

For me, the noise alone makes it a non isssue. I would never ever put something that loud in my PC. A Panaflo L1A is about as loud as I like. The GF4 Ti4600 I have is nice and quiet. Too bad they blew it with that silly FX Dustbuster design.

 

[BFG10K]

If 9700Pros are superior, why won't someone trade me for one plus $75, V2 sli, Banshee, and FAKK2?

I don't know, why don't you ask them?

I wouldn't (aside from obviously already owning a 9700 Pro) because I don't trust you. It's nothing personal of course but I don't do those kind of internet deals with anyone. If your card arrives DOA on my doorstep (for example) I may as well kiss my money goodbye right then and there.

Hmmm. You must be the only person alive who thinks "jaggies" are as noticeable at high res.

The danger of responding to a counter-point made to someone else is that you won't read the quote properly, like you did in this case. Please read carefully what I quoted instead of just replying to my answer.

I don't have anything AGAINST it, just no zombie like devotion to it.

Are you still "limping along" with the card?

Oh no! Not WHQL?! Who cares? Carmack uses it to code Doom3, it must not "suxor".

Would you buy a video card just to run one game?

The GF FX p[erforms great at high res, and pretty good at AF.

It's all relative. Reliative to a 9700 Pro it's not great, especially when you also factor in price and noise.

 

[BenSkywalker]

In fillrate limited situations perhaps, but situations which don't really matter and situations which nobody buys a $400 card for. In memory bandwidth situations (induced by cranking up the detail levels) the FX is swallowed up by the 9700 Pro, and it has better image quality too.

Just wondering if you happened to read the VRZone 5800 review. They put a 9700 up against the FX in the alpha build of DooM3(the one built for the R300 demo at E3 last year) and the FX was twice as fast. Found that interesting.

 

[THUGSROOK]

the FX probably wasnt rendering half the scene ~ thats why :disgust:

 

[nRollo]

"I wouldn't (aside from obviously already owning a 9700 Pro) because I don't trust you. It's nothing personal of course but I don't do those kind of internet deals with anyone."
A. I have perfect Heatware and Egay references
B. I'm a 39 year old with a wife and 3 year old. I'll give whoever I make this trade with my home phone number and the address of the home I own. (both easy enough to verify) Do you honestly think it's worth a $350- $400 VGA to me to expose my family to someone who isn't happy with the way I treated them in a business deal?
C. If I wasn't in the midst of spending $1000s on remodelling, I'd just order one to play with.

Whether you like me or not, you can trust me.

 

[EdipisReks]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

lol that is like the pot calling the fire black.

kettle. not fire, kettle.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Rollo
"I wouldn't (aside from obviously already owning a 9700 Pro) because I don't trust you. It's nothing personal of course but I don't do those kind of internet deals with anyone."
A. I have perfect Heatware and Egay references
B. I'm a 39 year old with a wife and 3 year old. I'll give whoever I make this trade with my home phone number and the address of the home I own. (both easy enough to verify) Do you honestly think it's worth a $350- $400 VGA to me to expose my family to someone who isn't happy with the way I treated them in a business deal?
C. If I wasn't in the midst of spending $1000s on remodelling, I'd just order one to play with.

Whether you like me or not, you can trust me.

Words cannot earn trust. Only deeds can.
Keys

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: EdipisReks

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

lol that is like the pot calling the fire black.

kettle. not fire, kettle.

no, i meant fire.

 

[nRollo]

"Words cannot earn trust. Only deeds can.
Keys"

I agree.

12 people spanning 5 years who have had positive experiences selling to me and buying from me
If you search "User Feedback" on EGAy, for bjks1@charter.net, you'll see 5 more positives spanning 4 years.

This is only 17 people, but I think you can see a general trend in that they're all positives and many say I'm a first class trader? Still no takers.
Let's see, old VGAs and game aside, a guy could have a supposedly superior VGA, and $75, or a card you all hate, and I can't get anyone to take my money/superior card.
Sort of proves my point about the 9700 not being necessarily superior, doesn't it? If it was, someone would jump this and get the better of me.

 

[mjolnir2k]

Originally posted by: Rollo
Rogo:
"Look the name up since you're a clone of those that use that (pseudo) rational."

LOL- I hope you're not just wasting your parent's money on philosophy and lit courses. I remember a comic in the campus paper when I was pursuing my first undergrad degree:
The student graduates with his BA-Philosophy, ends up a fry cook at McDonald's. So he goes back for his MA-Philosophy, ends up a fry cook at McDonald's. So he goes back for his PhD in philosophy, the last frame shows him in a paper hat with a shaggy beard with the caption, "Sad, hateful, bitter- but a darn good fry cook".

The moral?
In the real world, no one really cares who "Dionisodorous" is, so I didn't bother looking it up. LOL- what I wouldn't give to be 20 again, quaffing ale at the union, debating with my cronies, and feeling very self important. Enjoy it while it lasts.
If you're an adult, can people stand you?

LOL ....Someone just got owned! (this might be the best "put you in your place" retort I have read in a while.)

Oh, and all I have to add is.... Prices on video cards "COME ON DOWN"!!!

 

[ZimZum]

Originally posted by: Rollo
"
If 9700Pros are superior, why won't someone trade me for one plus $75, V2 sli, Banshee, and FAKK2?

.

Another satisfied customer

 

[nRollo]

Well, Thugsrook, may not have liked the card, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't. Anyway, doesn't look like I'll get the chance, the people who have these apparently like them more than my 9700/$75/SLI/Banshee/Fakk2 grab bag

 

[oldfart]

The fact that no one wants to trade doesn't mean anything. I'd be surprised if 5 people on this forum even have this card. Most people have sense enough not to buy it after reading the reviews. The ones that do are nV fanatics and are willing to pay more $$ for the card despite its many shortcomings. Why dont you just sell the 9700 Pro, and buy an FX 5800?

 

[nRollo]

"Why dont you just sell the 9700 Pro, and buy an FX 5800? "
The market for used 9700 Pros is devalued by the number of them available, and the recent price cut. I thought as the cards are roughly comparable, someone might go for the trade if I threw in $75 as the FXs aren't exactly basking in the glow of rave review and user acclaim.
In other words, it's worth $75 to me to make this trade, not worth selling my 9700 Pro to someone for half what I payed for it, then pay $400 again for a FX Ultra that performs the same. (that will be devalued a LOT within a month or two)
I'll wait for a nV35 if no one wants to trade, as I don't have any reason more compelling to get an Ultra than curiosity.
Make sense?

 

[oldfart]

I guess. From what I read so far, the nV35 looks pretty good. As long as they come up with a reasonable cooling solution, it should be a good card. The 9700 Pros are going for ~ $250ish used on the FS/T board now. I assume you didn't pay $500 for yours. If you got it recently for $300 = $ 330, that's not all that bad.

 

[nRollo]

I paid $370+tax for it, and $75 is as much as I'll pay to satisfy my curiosity. I don't have any real "reason" to make this switch, as many here have noted.
If I sell my card for $250 I eat $135. If I buy an FX Ultra for $400, I'll eat a huge chunk of that when the nV35 comes out this summer. So if I do what you're suggesting I'll throw away AT LEAST $235, in depreciation losses for a card I likely won't have very long.
No thanks, too much money to throw away without good liquor involved.

 

[nRollo]

Still no takers. Added this deal:
R9700 Pro/20GB WD HDD/SB Audigy/4X4X24 SmartnFriendly CDRW +$25

If no one jumps that, I think I've pretty much proven the R9700 Pro isn't "superior" to a FX Ultra. If it was, someone would take my 9700Pro and money/stuff, come out ahead.