Geforce GTX 1060 Thread: faster than RX 480, 120W, $249

[sze5003]

Nonsense. You can go to Newegg right now and place an order for this $250 GTX 1060:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500402

It'll ship within 4-5 days, but you can certainly go buy one right now if you wish.

Or you can pre order a nitro 480 on Amazon too. First time I've seen Amazon actually do pre orders for a card. I guess they are getting enough stock.

 

[Sweepr]

DOOM on Vulkan was also Live in GTX 1080 release event, we know how that turned out.

Turned out as specific low-level optimizations + exclusive Async Compute (and Twitter promotion) to make certain cards look much better than they actually are relative to the competition. Still wasn't enough for 90% GTX 1080 performance at half the price/TDP.

 

[phreaqe]

Man sweepr reminds me alot of Rollo i think it was back in the day.....

 

[raghu78]

Turned out as specific low-level optimizations + exclusive Async Compute (and Twitter promotion) to make certain cards look much better than they actually are relative to the competition.

So you are going to fight on the internet if websites benchmark Doom with Vulkan going forward ? This is getting ridiculous. id worked with Nvidia and AMD on the Vulkan optimizations. Shader intrinsics was AMD specific. I think nothing stops Nvidia from working with id and getting further optimizations for Doom Vulkan on Geforce. btw should all sites stop benchmarking DX12 / Vulkan titles to make the GTX 1060 look better ? What about the half a dozen or more AAA DX12 titles scheduled to launch in H2 2016. Anyway you try to spin it Rx 480 has a forward looking architecture. The best part is custom Rx 480 like Nitro are the top selling cards on sites like amazon, ocuk. the tpu poll also reflects the popularity of Rx 480. In fact the current Rx 480 is limited by the state of GF 14LPP. The second revision mentioned in the Rx 400 series naming scheme could prove to be the real mid-range champ when it launches in H1 2017.

http://videocardz.com/61721/amd-radeon-rx-400-series-naming-scheme-explained

 

[tential]

Just another knock against the 480. Why should I have to buy a card and work around the poor foundry it was built at? Global foundries has a poor track record not sure how the 480 received so much love knowing it was being built there.

It's probably a large reason why amd was unable to beat Nvidia to market

 

[Headfoot]

Turned out as specific low-level optimizations + exclusive Async Compute (and Twitter promotion) to make certain cards look much better than they actually are relative to the competition. Still wasn't enough for 90% GTX 1080 performance at half the price/TDP.

Low level optimization is precisely the point of the new APIs... You can bet nVidia is going to get in on specific extensions (to match Shader Intrinsics) to go even lower level on their hardware too. It's just a matter of when.

It doesn't show any card better than it is, that's 100% spin. It shows what the card is, when the developer uses extreme low level optimization a-la console.

Now you might have a point if you say "How many developers will truly go that low-level?" The answer is likely very few. The Doom team is made up of extremely smart and experienced graphics devs from the former Crytek team with the will, skill and budget to do it. You might even have a point if you say "Doom is an outlier for the 480 and it's unlikely many other games will reach that level of optimization, so its best not to consider that as a typical scenario." But don't try and tell me it makes the card "look better than it is" thats pure spin and completely misleading.

 

[Sweepr]

So you are going to fight on the internet if websites benchmark Doom with Vulkan going forward ?

No, just with the people like you who use it as a showcase of technical superiority, as if all games will perform like this in a couple of months (common FUD around here).

This is getting ridiculous. id worked with Nvidia and AMD on the Vulkan optimizations. Shader intrinsics was AMD specific.

Not only the shaders but exclusive Async Compute as well, not even Pascal gets it and we know it would benefit as well.

What about the half a dozen or more AAA DX12 titles scheduled to launch in H2 2016.

The current half a dozen perform just fine on GTX 1060, in fact your 'forward looking' card is only a few % faster.

Anyway you try to spin it Rx 480 has a forward looking architecture. The best part is custom Rx 480 like Nitro are the top selling cards on sites like amazon, ocuk. the tpu poll also reflects the popularity of Rx 480.

If forum preference polls reflected overall popularity I'm pretty sure AMD's marketshare would skyrocket, but then again, maybe you should leave the sales talk to the proper threads out there.

In fact the current Rx 480 is limited by the state of GF 14LPP.

Source.

The second revision mentioned in the Rx 400 series naming scheme could prove to be the real mid-range champ

Who cares about the second revision, they just launched a single card from the first one and mobile parts are not even on the market yet.

when it launches in H1 2017.

Source #2.

 

[raghu78]

Just another knock against the 480. Why should I have to buy a card and work around the poor foundry it was built at? Global foundries has a poor track record not sure how the 480 received so much love knowing it was being built there.

It's probably a large reason why amd was unable to beat Nvidia to market

dude according to gibbo of ocuk AMD Rx 480 volume is an order of magnitude (around 10x) higher than GTX 1060. So even though GF has issues to fix they can deliver in volume. btw if Rx 480 is selling well even with the drawbacks then it bodes well for Rx 485 when the Polaris 10/11 chips gets a second revision to fix clock/power issues as the process matures.

 

[Arachnotronic]

dude according to gibbo of ocuk AMD Rx 480 volume is an order of magnitude (around 10x) higher than GTX 1060. So even though GF has issues to fix they can deliver in volume. btw if Rx 480 is selling well even with the drawbacks then it bodes well for Rx 485 when the Polaris 10/11 chips gets a second revision to fix clock/power issues as the process matures.

Could we stop with the thread derailing please? This is the GTX 1060 thread.

 

[Snarf Snarf]

It's highly appreciated that you guys are fighting the good fight trying to convince Sweepr that the RX480 isn't garbage but it's obvious he has his opinion and its pretty set in stone.

Neutral opinion here, both cards are excellent, this is great for mainstream gamers as they're getting 390x and GTX 980 performance at $250 which is almost half of what it cost last generation.

We have known the DX12 era is going to be one of low level optimizations, every game is going to need them to run at max potential. You can't throw benches from API's that don't suit your agenda in your suite. However I think computerbase's method is one of the better ones as far as keeping the best numbers from each game regardless of API. This is how real people will use games in the real world. If you're on Win 10 and the DX12 path is available with better performance you can bet it's going to be used. Same applies to Vulkan and even more to Win 7 users that get a Vulkan codepath.

Gaming evolved is not Gameworks, both vendors can submit optimized code paths to the game developer. AMD has never locked Nvidia out of being able to optimize for their own hardware. If major game developers start doing shader intrinsic code for GCN it's because they are already doing it for consoles. This is a plus for the RX, but not all gamers are going to be playing DX12 titles this year. Lots of budget users may not even do the Win 10 upgrade and are stuck on Win 7, GTX 1060 makes a lot of sense for these users that are limited to DX11 titles.

TLDR: Both cards are great with AIB coolers, good perf, lower power consumption, and more importantly good pricing. There is always trade off's involved in making a purchase. There is nothing wrong with saying that GTX 1060 is better for ME, but don't make absolute sweeping statements like the RX480 is trash either

 

[Sweepr]

It's highly appreciated that you guys are fighting the good fight trying to convince Sweepr that the RX480 isn't garbage but it's obvious he has his opinion and its pretty set in stone.

There's hundreds of posts telling or implying that GTX 1060 will age poorly and praising RX 480 in this thread. Maybe letting the people who are interested in the card this thread is about express their enthusiasm and 'fight the good fight' in any of the other (many) AMD threads out there would be a better idea?

 

[raghu78]

No, just with the people like you who use it as a showcase of technical superiority, as if all games will perform like this in a couple of months (common FUD around here).

dude Nvidia GTX 1060 loses to Rx 480 in DX12 / Vulkan. Thats a fact. You can keep complaining on the internet but nothings gonna change. Microsoft is pushing hard for Windows 10 / XB1 play anywhere and so its not surprising that their recent and upcoming titles are all DX12 only.

Not only the shaders but exclusive Async Compute as well, not even Pascal gets it and we know it would benefit as well.

dude this is not the first time that a developer has worked closely with a GPU vendor. When it happens inf favour of Nvidia you praise their developer relations program TWIMTBP. btw you never know the next Vulkan patch for Doom might come with Nvidia low level optimizations including async compute.

The current half a dozen perform just fine on GTX 1060, in fact your 'forward looking' card is only a few % faster.

golem.de did a review of the latest DX12 / Vulkan games and the Rx 480 had big wins in Quantum Break, Forza Motorsport, Hitman, Doom. GTX 1060 won RoTR. Ashes, GoW UE and Total War Warhammer were all very close. The avg across those games was >5% in favour of Rx 480. When you see that the GTX 1060's avg win across DX11 games on many reviews is 5-10% I think both cards are close competitors with the Rx 480 having the more forward looking architecture.

If forum preference polls reflected overall popularity I'm pretty sure AMD's marketshare would skyrocket, but then again, maybe you should leave the sales talk to the proper threads out there.

yeah I think we will wait and see how AMD fares with actual market share from Jon peddie reports for Q3 and Q4 2016.

Who cares about the second revision, they just launched a single card from the first one and mobile parts are not even on the market yet.

dude they launched 1 product and are launching 2 more in the next couple of weeks.

http://videocardz.com/62672/amd-radeon-rx-470-and-radeon-rx-460-official-specs-and-performance

btw the GPU volume of Rx 480 is much higher than what Nvidia is shipping on any of their GPUs atleast according to resellers like gibbo of ocuk. The second revision matters because by H1 2017 when both Nvidia and AMD has moved all their GPU production to FINFET, Nvidia cards like GTX 1060 would be competing with second revisions of AMD Polaris chips. You have to remember that both AMD and Nvidia are yet to fully move their entire GPU production to FINFET and are supply limited. When the supply situation is resolved a stronger product like Rx 485 will do even better than Rx 480.

 

[raghu78]

Could we stop with the thread derailing please? This is the GTX 1060 thread.

k. fair enough. I will stop with off thread topic posts.

 

[Bacon1]

Not only the shaders but exclusive Async Compute as well, not even Pascal gets it and we know it would benefit as well.

Why don't you bug Nvidia for proper drivers then instead of blaming developers? You guys blamed the Ashes developers instead of Nvidia when they made the exact same comment about Maxwell not performing correctly with Async Compute.

Now same problem with Pascal and once again, it is blame the developers and not Nvidia for not providing proper drivers.

Does DOOM support asynchronous compute when running on the Vulkan API?
Asynchronous compute is a feature that provides additional performance gains on top of the baseline id Tech 6 Vulkan feature set.
Currently asynchronous compute is only supported on AMD GPUs and requires DOOM Vulkan supported drivers to run. We are working with NVIDIA to enable asynchronous compute in Vulkan on NVIDIA GPUs. We hope to have an update soon.

https://community.bethesda.net/thread/54585?tstart=0

id specifically stated they have been working daily with BOTH AMD and Nvidia.

Just because they are able to use more features on AMD cards doesn't make them biased, it just means they are doing proper optimizations. If Nvidia doesn't have those features available, how can they use them?

Ask Nvidia to provide those features, stop blaming the developers for wanting to use them.

 

[Sweepr]

dude Nvidia GTX 1060 loses to Rx 480 in DX12 / Vulkan. Thats a fact.

This is way overblown. Overall (7 games) it's only a bit faster in DX12, and considering most of them are Gaming Evoled titles, could be down further optimization specific for AMD cards. Saying all games in the future will perform better is pure FUD, not a fact.

btw the GPU volume of Rx 480 is much higher than what Nvidia is shipping on any of their GPUs atleast according to resellers like gibbo of ocuk.

And the thread derail continues. As if this single store represents worldwide volumes. Let's see how well this card does against 'any of NVIDIA's GPUs' in the next Steam Hardware Survey.

The second revision matters because by H1 2017 when both Nvidia and AMD has moved all their GPU production to FINFET, Nvidia cards like GTX 1060 would be competing with second revisions of AMD Polaris chips.

You know NVIDIA could (and might) refresh their Pascal cards next year as well, right? Possibly including GDDR5X, higher clocks and other improvements across their mainstream lineup. GTX 1060 was a strong response to the competition, you would expect the same from future products.

 

[Snarf Snarf]

There's hundreds of posts telling or implying that GTX 1060 will age poorly and praising RX 480 in this thread. Maybe letting the people who are interested in the card this thread is about express their enthusiasm and 'fight the good fight' in any of the other (many) AMD threads out there would be a better idea?

Like I said, both cards are excellent. Neither one is a dud, they just excel in different areas. Trade off's happen in any purchasing decision, especially if budget constraints are present (like they would be in this market segment).

We don't know what the future holds performance-wise we can only make educated guesses. With a limited sample size RX480 has a slight edge right now but I sincerely doubt Nvidia isn't already out there trying to make DX12 Gameworks libraries for devs to start using in next years titles.

You are right though, this is the GTX 1060 thread and the last few pages are full of pro RX 480 talk. We should probably get back to the topic

 

[raghu78]

This is way overblown and considering most of them are Gaming Evoled titles, could be down further optimization specific for AMD cards. Saying all games in the future will perform better is pure FUD, not a fact.

I never said all games in future will perform better. I said AMD has the more forward looking architecture. btw there are neutral titles too like Quantum Break, Forza Motorsport. Actually of the 4 big wins for AMD's Rx 480 three of them are neutral titles. Doom is neutral because id worked with both AMD and Nvidia. Nothing stops Nvidia from working with id on low level optimizations with async compute. How much perf can the developer extract from the Pascal architecture. Now thats a wait and watch situation..

And the thread derail continues. As if this single store represents worldwide volumes. Let's see how well this card does against 'any of NVIDIA's GPUs' in the next Steam Hardware Survey.

I would say the same thing of STEAM. The best sources of GPU sales are Jon Peddie and Mercury Research reports.

How is that relevant, you know NVIDIA could (and might) refresh their Pascal cards next year as well, right? Possibly including GDDR5X, higher clocks and other improvements across their mainstream lineup.

Its relevant because TSMC 16FF+ is in much better shape than GF 14LPP. So AMD has scope for better improvements as process matures. I think G5X will take some time to trickle down to <= USD 250 GPUs. The GPUs which will get it first are > USD 300 GPUs like GTX 1070. We might see a GTX 1070 Ti with G5X if Vega is very competitive.

 

[sontin]

I never said all games in future will perform better. I said AMD has the more forward looking architecture. btw there are neutral titles too like Quantum Break, Forza Motorsport. Actually of the 4 big wins for AMD's Rx 480 three of them are neutral titles. Doom is neutral because id worked with both AMD and Nvidia.

Neither QB nor FM are faster because of DX12. They are faster because of the engine - look at Hitman with DX11. BTW: FM can be faster on a GTX1060. And Doom is not neutral. Stop with this talk. The developers are selling and promoting AMD cards.

Nothing stops Nvidia from working with id on low level optimizations with async compute. How much perf can the developer extract from the Pascal architecture. Now thats a wait and watch situation..

Sure. Problem is that id doesnt care. Similiar to other companies like IO Interactive, Creative Assembly and Oxide.

I would say the same thing of STEAM. The best sources of GPU sales are Jon Peddie and Mercury Research reports.

nVidia sold 77% of the discrete GPUs in Q1 2016. :thumbsup:

Polaris uses an oudated architecture and need biased developer to even show any sign of competitiveness.

We will see of many biased developers can ignore the growing gaming notebook, HTPC and mITX market.

 

[Headfoot]

Neither QB nor FM are faster because of DX12.

This is laughably incorrect. Do you mean that QB and FM are not faster *solely due to* DX12? Because that would be accurate...

 

[Enigmoid]

Its relevant because TSMC 16FF+ is in much better shape than GF 14LPP. So AMD has scope for better improvements as process matures. I think G5X will take some time to trickle down to <= USD 250 GPUs. The GPUs which will get it first are > USD 300 GPUs like GTX 1070. We might see a GTX 1070 Ti with G5X if Vega is very competitive.

AMD has no budget for replacement cards. There is a reason why they are not doing a full lineup now (it does not make economic sense) and there is a reason why they were still selling pitcarin until recently.

Likely Polaris 10 and 11 will go the same way cape verde and pitcarin went. Roadmaps show no successor in the near future for polaris 10 or 11.

IMO Polaris 10 and 11 will be part of AMDs main lineup for at least 3 years.

 

[Erenhardt]

Neither QB nor FM are faster because of DX12. They are faster because of the engine - look at Hitman with DX11. BTW: FM can be faster on a GTX1060. And Doom is not neutral. Stop with this talk. The developers are selling and promoting AMD cards.



Sure. Problem is that id doesnt care. Similiar to other companies like IO Interactive, Creative Assembly and Oxide.



nVidia sold 77% of the discrete GPUs in Q1 2016. :thumbsup:

Polaris uses an oudated architecture and need biased developer to even show any sign of competitiveness.

We will see of many biased developers can ignore the growing gaming notebook, HTPC and mITX market.

LMAO. Bad developers don't care about poor nvidia. They are blinded by the $$$ amd is throwing at them. /s Hahahaha
Sure they don't care. Not even remotely that they showed off Vulkan for the first time on nvidia event, running nvidia hardware.

But as it turns out, nv lost at their own game. A Vulkan patch actually makes amd cards blow past the nv cards and then some. I guess nvidia effort to help id add vulkan backfired at them.

 

[Leadbox]

Polaris uses an oudated architecture

Dated and yet still more relevant going forward than anything nvidia has out now and for the foreseeable future. The energy efficiency you drool over comes at a price and we see it now with these new APIs.

 

[raghu78]

And Doom is not neutral. Stop with this talk. The developers are selling and promoting AMD cards.

The developers were also at the GTX 1080 launch event demoing Doom on Vulkan

http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/ar...-gtx-1080-run-doom-at-up-200-fps-using-vulkan

I guess they were selling and promoting Nvidia cards too. So that makes them neutral.

Sure. Problem is that id doesnt care. Similiar to other companies like IO Interactive, Creative Assembly and Oxide.

AMD is following the market leader Nvidia's strategy of working closely with developers. TWIMTBP was all about that strategy. Gameworks took it one level further with vendor supplied black box code which was tuned to work best with their latest gen hardware and did run poorly on competition. AMD does nothing of that sort. They work to get the best out of their hardware and do not harm the competition.

nVidia sold 77% of the discrete GPUs in Q1 2016. :thumbsup:

https://jonpeddie.com/press-release...ts-increased-in-q1-2016-while-all-else-declin

I know. But if AMD gained market share with the older R9 300 series cards which were much less competitive in perf/watt with the competition than it bodes well for Polaris which is much more competitive.

Polaris uses an outdated architecture and need biased developer to even show any sign of competitiveness.

We will see of many biased developers can ignore the growing gaming notebook, HTPC and mITX market.

Yeah DX12 / Vulkan is biased.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Forza Motorsport.

 

[Sonikku]

The $25 off $200 promo code has been deactivated at Newegg. <cursing redacted>


cursing is not allowed in the technical forums.
Markfw900