Geforce GTX 1060 Thread: faster than RX 480, 120W, $249

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AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
136
It is not the driver. it is the broken Vulkan path on nVidia hardware.

Talos for example runs without "problems". :\

Or its the incapability of NVIDIA to make a good Vulkan driver that doesnt use Image Synchronization, because Vulkan DOES support non-Synchronization.
The sad thing is that users have to wait for NVIDIA to make a new driver, until then better stay at 60fps cap when using NVIDIA hardware.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
I think GTX1060 will outperform 980Ti in less than a year.Its only 15% faster now.Basically the same thing as how 970 outperforms 780Ti. So GTX1060 is better buy than used/new 980Ti.

sorry, we can't use future performance arguments in nVidia-branded threads when discussing purchasing decisions.

That is not allowed here, my friend.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
sorry, we can't use future performance arguments in nVidia-branded threads when discussing purchasing decisions.

That is not allowed here, my friend.

what are you talking about? That is what runs rampant and unchecked here. It's used out of context. It's exaggerated. It's a lie most of the time in the context it is used.

So no, it's not as you say. It's full blown allowed, and in FULL swing, my friend.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
what are you talking about? That is what runs rampant and unchecked here. It's used out of context. It's exaggerated. It's a lie most of the time in the context it is used.

So no, it's not as you say. It's full blown allowed, and in FULL swing, my friend.

my point: --> X






-----------------





you: --> O


 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
Are we playing tic tac toe?

no, of course not. I was just pointing out that the sarcasm in that comment seems to have eluded you there.

The poster mentioned that we should be discussing future performance of the 1060 vs the 980ti as a cost to now/then determination of what card to buy.

I pointed out that discussing "where a card might be performing a year from now" is verbotten in a "sweepr-owned" thread, because he has "had it up to here!" with people discussing speculative future gains on a card to influence their purchasing decision today.

Since Sweepr (who we all know clearly owns the threads that he is determined to own) does not allow such discussions when comparing 480 vs 1060 (using past history of different architectures), I was merely pointing out to that individual that such a rhetorical argument is simply in bad taste, and perhaps offensive?

I dunno, maybe the thread owner will weigh-in if it is actually allowed to discuss speculative intra-nVidia gains when comparing cards, yet it is still forbidden to discuss inter-card gains when considering which card to purchase? If so, I would hope that he provides the rules of how this should be addressed so as to lessen the confusion from here on out.
 

phreaqe

Golden Member
Mar 22, 2004
1,204
3
81
no, of course not. I was just pointing out that the sarcasm in that comment seems to have eluded you there.

The poster mentioned that we should be discussing future performance of the 1060 vs the 980ti as a cost to now/then determination of what card to buy.

I pointed out that discussing "where a card might be performing a year from now" is verbotten in a "sweepr-owned" thread, because he has "had it up to here!" with people discussing speculative future gains on a card to influence their purchasing decision today.

Since Sweepr (who we all know clearly owns the threads that he is determined to own) does not allow such discussions when comparing 480 vs 1060 (using past history of different architectures), I was merely pointing out to that individual that such a rhetorical argument is simply in bad taste, and perhaps offensive?

I dunno, maybe the thread owner will weigh-in if it is actually allowed to discuss speculative intra-nVidia gains when comparing cards, yet it is still forbidden to discuss inter-card gains when considering which card to purchase? If so, I would hope that he provides the rules of how this should be addressed so as to lessen the confusion from here on out.

He may have to check the Nvidia PR guidelines first....
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91

Bacon1

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2016
3,430
1,018
91
Selective posting at its best.

Wow you got that right


Async Compute disabled, great benchmark!

Developers posting #BetterRed on Twitter, praising Polaris in AMD events, not allowing Async Compute on any NVIDIA GPU, exclusive low level optimizations, being released coincidentally just a few days before GTX 1060 reviews. They turned a neutral game into a marketing tool overnight, and it doesn't get more obvious than this.

Yep damn Doom developers so biased, here they are promoting the 1080:

Marty Stratton on stage to unveil #DOOM running on @VulkanAPI & GeForce GTX 1080 #GameReady #FightLikeHell

https://twitter.com/doom/status/729072597774807046

Still waiting for Async Compute dx12 drivers for Maxwell, how long will it take for vulkan Pascal ones?
 
Aug 11, 2008
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IllogicalGlory

Senior member
Mar 8, 2013
934
346
136
NV's response to id devs locking them out of async compute has been swift and conclusive. You can see it below:

NVIDIA said:

Clear as crystal, eh? It's the DOOM devs that are to blame not the drivers, not the hardware, not NV. Never!
 
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Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,752
4,562
136
Can someone explain to me why the 480 will age better than the 1060? Is it because of dx12? Won't the 1060 support that as well?
 

IllogicalGlory

Senior member
Mar 8, 2013
934
346
136
Can someone explain to me why the 480 will age better than the 1060? Is it because of dx12? Won't the 1060 support that as well?
It's all extrapolation, but it's based on the 480 generally winning in DX12 games and the presumption that, like Kepler and Maxwell, AMDs chips will eventually win to their NV competitors (290 vs 970 vs 780, for example).

The DX12 bit is credible IMO, but the second part is iffy.
 

JDG1980

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2013
1,663
570
136
Can someone explain to me why the 480 will age better than the 1060? Is it because of dx12? Won't the 1060 support that as well?

The RX 480 has considerably more theoretical compute performance than the 1060 (5.8 TFlops vs 4.4 TFlops). DX12 and Vulkan, in general, help AMD cards make more use of their theoretical advantages in actual gaming. Nvidia has the edge in DX11 for a variety of reasons related to the drivers and hardware architecture.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
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It's all extrapolation, but it's based on the 480 generally winning in DX12 games and the presumption that, like Kepler and Maxwell, AMDs chips will eventually win to their NV competitors (290 vs 970 vs 780, for example).

The DX12 bit is credible IMO, but the second part is iffy.

The RX 480 has considerably more theoretical compute performance than the 1060 (5.8 TFlops vs 4.4 TFlops). DX12 and Vulkan, in general, help AMD cards make more use of their theoretical advantages in actual gaming. Nvidia has the edge in DX11 for a variety of reasons related to the drivers and hardware architecture.

The other bit to bring up is that DX12 is built on top of AMD-developed tech and the Mantle API, so of course it would tend to favor AMD. This is also the reason that older AMD cards also favor DX12 and show even more significant gains there when compared to their contemporaries, like Maxwell.

The big async compute onion in nVidia's ointment is merely one of those features that greatly benefits well-tooled DX12 implementations, but nVidia is still dragging it's feet on this 1 year out. They continue to break promises about making this "available through drivers" in Maxwell, and while it appears to be a feature in the hardware of Pascal (see AT review for 1080), it either isn't implemented fully or at all, at the moment.

These have long been open api and development tools that nVidia could have freely used for some years now, but it wasn't in their interest, I suppose, because of market dominance through advertising. Meanwhile, AMD had been lagging through this time with hardware designed for tomorrow (now, today) as they had been designing for low-level api and compute, which is far more important in consoles that need greater efficiency with closed systems designed to last for 4+ years on aging hardware.

When you consider that the vast bulk of the gaming market is console-based now, with most AAA titles primarily being console-to-PC ports, you can see how developers would prefer to design for hardware that is both more efficient in designing for their primary revenue target, as well as efficiency in porting to PCs. Further added to that is the fact that only AMD will be in Sony and MSFT's upcoming console refreshes (MSFT has 2--one is supposed to be targeting 4K) for the next ~4 or 5 years; though it appears that these companies are aiming for shorter refreshes. ....if there are shorter refreshes, then that could mean an even greater future for AMD *if* they retain those contracts.

Anyway, in light of the facts of the reality of today and where the market stands, it isn't mere speculation that AMD is clearly ahead of nVidia in terms of modern API and future game-based performance over the next 4 years (at least), it is simply an acceptance of truth.

Not that nVidia isn't a slouch--I suspect they will continue to design for brute force performance with a 6 month-1 year lifespan on each card that they put out. They will probably win at that higher end and with shorter refreshes as they always do, without doing much to implementing better design in their architecture. But if they keep winning the mindshare game and customers still want to toss out ~$800 per year to claim 5-10% better performance on each yearly refresh, then why should nVidia care? At least with AMD< you can take the Russian Sensation route, mine with your cards, and claim your 5-10% less performance year-by-year and pay $800 less for that privilege ($800 cost based on nVidia staggering pricing creep between the last 3 generations, and their new taxes)
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
This thread has been so derailed its a complete waste of time.

I think this thread offers various comparisons and does aim to advise consumers based on what is known about this new hardware and what is known about the future that this new hardware faces.

The thread title explicitly challenges the performance prospect of the two competing mainstream cards by both companies, so any assumption of going off-topic because the other is discussed seems to be off base, imo. (now watch the title mysteriously change, again for the 3rd-4th time )

That being said, this very same discussion seems to be happening across 2 or 3 separate threads now and it is indeed difficult to tell which thread you are in from time to time.

For my sake, I'm not trying to downplay one vs the other or extol some virtues of one while ignoring those of another--I know it sounds like that--it just seems to me that one company has long preferred a strategy of short-cycle, constant-but-pricier performance gains, while another has long preferred the longer-cycle, budget-friendly strategy that historically offers better long-term support and performance gains. Clearly, I prefer one strategy over the other which, while playing into the hardware discussion, is just another piece of the puzzle.

These forums are where tons of people come to ask questions (Far more lurkers than posters, I imagine), to try and gain advice on where to go with their money. I think it's valuable to give consumers the full picture, especially in this tier of cards where most consumers are budget-oriented and tend to prefer greater longevity out of their hardware over short-term, pricier wins.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
Smoke and mirrors.

Don't believe people who think they can predict the future.

Well, that's a far more informative response than the one provided by the previous posters. :hmm:

One thing I learned in gradeschool: "zin, if they don't have an answer or have nothing to tell you, then they will distract you with empty words."

A better response would be to explain how and why people are wrong that DX12 has been long designed with AMD optimizations, and that nVidia actually has been working on async compute and other DX12 features, regardless of what we are actually getting from them.

I don't think DX12 can possibly be that bad for nVidia as it is made out to be, but I haven't yet heard a real argument countering those pointing towards what the actual data and history shows in favor of AMD. Vulkan seems a bit different story, but I think it is far more speculative to assume that will be very significant in the near future, much less further out. The DX12 stuff is really difficult to ignore--and of course both designs do show real gains here.
 
Aug 11, 2008
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Smoke and mirrors.

Don't believe people who think they can predict the future.

I would not say smoke and mirrors exactly, but there is clearly too much certainty given to what is basically speculation. Maybe some posters on these forums can predict what will happen in 4 years, but I certainly cant. I also dont think it is valid predicting the future "aging" of nVidia cards based on what happened several generations ago. Who knows what will happen? Maybe nVidia will improve their DX12 drivers, maybe there will be a slew of nVidia sponsored games that run better on their architecture, who knows. Right now, we are seeing a lot of AMD sponsored games, that obviously are and will be optimized for thier hardware. I cant imagine nVidia will not counter in some way.
 

nerp

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,866
105
106
Both cards will be improved and optimized as DX12 matures. Both cards are great. I don't really see any problem here.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,575
7,637
136
Not that nVidia isn't a slouch--I suspect they will continue to design for brute force performance with a 6 month-1 year lifespan on each card that they put out. They will probably win at that higher end and with shorter refreshes as they always do, without doing much to implementing better design in their architecture. But if they keep winning the mindshare game and customers still want to toss out ~$800 per year to claim 5-10% better performance on each yearly refresh, then why should nVidia care? At least with AMD< you can take the Russian Sensation route, mine with your cards, and claim your 5-10% less performance year-by-year and pay $800 less for that privilege ($800 cost based on nVidia staggering pricing creep between the last 3 generations, and their new taxes)

Or I could buy a 1060 for better performance on Blizzard titles, and a lower (safer) TDP on my OEM power supply.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
Or I could buy a 1060 for better performance on Blizzard titles, and a lower (safer) TDP on my OEM power supply.

That's a great point. If you are primarily playing Blizzard titles you go with what works best at the moment of purchase, because they never push hardware anywhere close to cutting edge as they only ever target mainstream. So if nVidia does manage to fall off in performance after a year or two compared to AMD, it won't matter in a Blizzard title because it will likely be unnoticeable.

...though the "safety" TDP issue you claim with the initial release of the 480 is no longer valid, as the issue was resolved shortly after. (Actually, it wasn't ever a big deal because known cases of hardware failures were user error, iirc--big deal for safety. Certainly a big deal when you are talking about AMD's claims vs reality)
 
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