Geforce GTX 1060 Thread: faster than RX 480, 120W, $249

[Maverick177]

Actually, it's not my opinion, it's statistics.

Go back through the thread, nobody is talking about "now". Team Red does nothing but talk about the AMD cards are future proof, and the current DX12 games prove it.

My argument:
Number of DX 12 games on Steam's top seller list: 0
Number of of DX12 games on Steam's most popular list: 2 out of 100
Number of DX comming up soon: 1

In the vast majority of cases - at least 1,000 : 1 - the 1060 is faster than a 480. Heck, a 1060 3GB is faster than a 480.

Team Red also narrows the goal posts by saying things like "AAA" and "big name", which they can define as anything they want.

You reminded me of Henry Ford's time when people don't want cars, they just want faster horses and the street of London and America are filled with horses's poop.

 

[Azix]

The reviews about the 1060 vs 480 in dx11 are typically using about as many games as there are dx12 games, yet we draw broad conclusions from them.

Usually the only dx12 game that favors nvidia cards is Tomb Raider. Sometimes ashes of the singularity depending on settings.

 

[fuccboi]

The reviews about the 1060 vs 480 in dx11 are typically using about as many games as there are dx12 games, yet we draw broad conclusions from them.

Usually the only dx12 game that favors nvidia cards is Tomb Raider. Sometimes ashes of the singularity depending on settings.

But those aren't a real dx12 games nor is the Time Spy benchmark

 

[AtenRa]

But those aren't a real dx12 games nor is the Time Spy benchmark

Why they arent real DX-12 games ?? (not talking about Time Spy)

 

[Phynaz]

Could you link how many AAA 2016 tiles that going to be released from now on are DX-11 only ??

Then link the DX-12 titles and compare.

Could you define what a AAA game is? Does a game have to be "AAA" to be good?

But yes, I can.

http://store.steampowered.com/search/?filter=comingsoon&os=win,mac

Edit:
Heh, some of the really big titles coming out are still DX9

 

[AtenRa]

Could you define what a AAA game is?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAA_(video_game_industry)

Does a game have to be "AAA" to be good?

No

But yes, I can.

http://store.steampowered.com/search/?filter=comingsoon&os=win,mac

99% of those dont even need a GTX 750Ti to get 60fps, that is why we are talking about AAA titles that require faster Graphics Cards for higher Image Quality settings.
It is those games that make people upgrade their Graphics Cards, not those 99% of games that can be played even on APUs or older GPUs.

 

[Shivansps]

Why they arent real DX-12 games ?? (not talking about Time Spy)

Well a REAL DX12 game by definition will enforce FL 12.0 at least, just like DX11 games where crap because until they stopped using the FL 10.1, and DX10 where crap until they stopped using FL 9.3.
That means, it will not run on FL 11.x hardware, just like most of today DX11 games cant run on FL10 hardware. DX12 support on FL11 hardware is a gimmick, its like saying a HD4850 is a DX11 FL10.1 card, or that a 7600GT is a DX11/10 FL 9.3 card. Do you know that you can run a DX11 game on a 7600GT as long it is FL 9.3 right?

This will also allow to use DX12 to its full extend, and that means making things that in no way DX11 could handle, right now the only thing we are actually seeing is some cpu overhead removal, that you can only actually see that with ultra low end cpus, since in games there are several other cpu bottlenecks and async compute.

BUT cutting off FL11.1 supports means cutting off DX11 support, and Windows 7/8 support, that will not happen anywhere soon.

 

[Phynaz]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAA_(video_game_industry)



No



99% of those dont even need a GTX 750Ti to get 60fps, that is why we are talking about AAA titles that require faster Graphics Cards for higher Image Quality settings.
It is those games that make people upgrade their Graphics Cards, not those 99% of games that can be played even on APUs or older GPUs.

Zoom!

There's Aten-Ra moving the goalposts again. Went from AAA games to a subset of AAA games.

And now that I've debunked your implication that all upcoming AAA games are going to have DX12, here's just a few that don't:

God Eater 2 - DX9
One Piece Burning Blood - DX11
DEAD RISING - DX11
Pro Evolution Soccer 2017 - DX9
NBA 2K17
Mafia III
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Special Edition
DRAGON BALL XENOVERSE 2
Football Manager 2017
Call of Duty®: Infinite Warfare


I'll await your next shifting of the goalposts.

 

[linkgoron]

Zoom!

There's Aten-Ra moving the goalposts again. Went from AAA games to a subset of AAA games.

And now that I've debunked your implication that all upcoming AAA games are going to have DX12, here's just a few that don't:

God Eater 2 - DX9
One Piece Burning Blood - DX11
DEAD RISING - DX11
Pro Evolution Soccer 2017 - DX9
NBA 2K17
Mafia III
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Special Edition
DRAGON BALL XENOVERSE 2
Football Manager 2017
Call of Duty®: Infinite Warfare


I'll await your next shifting of the goalposts.

Citing games that get 100+ Fps on weak systems does not help strengthen your case. PES, fifa, nba and especially FM would hardly be considered AAA games on these boards. Basically, they are all games that should easily run on a 460/950.

For example Fifa 16 achieves 120 min FPS at 4k on a 480 and 220 FPS at ultra 1080p

http://www.notebookcheck.net/FIFA-16-Notebook-Benchmarks.151721.0.html

 

[werepossum]

Zoom!

There's Aten-Ra moving the goalposts again. Went from AAA games to a subset of AAA games.

And now that I've debunked your implication that all upcoming AAA games are going to have DX12, here's just a few that don't:

God Eater 2 - DX9
One Piece Burning Blood - DX11
DEAD RISING - DX11
Pro Evolution Soccer 2017 - DX9
NBA 2K17
Mafia III
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Special Edition
DRAGON BALL XENOVERSE 2
Football Manager 2017
Call of Duty®: Infinite Warfare


I'll await your next shifting of the goalposts.

That is not shifting the goalposts, it is simply recognizing reality. When one card provides 100 FPS and the other 200 FPS at maximum settings, there is no functional difference. If those are the only games one plays, that is fine. But his point is that people upgrade cards for the minority of games that demand it for acceptable performance. If one is buying a new graphics card, then that subset of games becomes the entire gaming criteria set because either card is fine for the others.

That said, I do agree that it is possible for a particular gamer to only care about some of the most graphically demanding games of which none happen to be DX12 or Vulcan, at least for the next two or three years. Also, NVidia has the larger market share, so I suspect programmers will be concentrating on DX12 programming which both brands can well use, not areas where AMD gains disproportionately. So I see DX12 as being something of a leveler, not something that is a runaway for AMD. If developers have substandard performance from AMD cards, they will spend resources developing AMD-specific paths to retain that market. Otherwise, they will not spend resources so that AMD provides a faster experience. Developers only care about providing the best experience for their buck, not which brand gets bragging rights. (Except when one or the other pays them to care, obviously.)

 

[Sweepr]

Face-Off: No Man's Sky

The performance stats speak for themselves. Both the GTX 1060 and RX 480 are tested at 1080p resolution and FXAA, with maximum settings across the board otherwise. The GTX 1060 offers a clear lead here, with a circa 20fps advantage compared to the RX 480 while on foot. Even stress-testing the title by flying over terrain shows this same divide between the cards, but crucially, it's the GTX 1060 that still manages to run at 60fps and above in this scenario, and it's very rare to see it drop below that line. Meanwhile the RX 480 has a clear difficulty by comparison, with dips to around 45fps coupled with aggressive frame-time stutters as low as 50ms.

So as things stand, it means max settings at 60fps is off the table for the AMD card, especially with the distracting frame-time stutter. This is despite our test RX 480 model being better-equipped with 8GB RAM, next to the 6GB on the GTX 1060. It appears memory isn't an issue on either side though, and the cause of this divided performance may instead lie with No Man's Sky use of OpenGL - an API that's caused issues for AMD cards in the past.

 

[Phynaz]

Citing games that get 100+ Fps on weak systems does not help strengthen your case. PES, fifa, nba and especially FM would hardly be considered AAA games on these boards. Basically, they are all games that should easily run on a 460/950.

For example Fifa 16 achieves 120 min FPS at 4k on a 480 and 220 FPS at ultra 1080p

http://www.notebookcheck.net/FIFA-16-Notebook-Benchmarks.151721.0.html

I'm using Aten-Ra's definition, take it up with him.

As a reminder he set the definition of what is a AAA game, and then wanted to know what AAA games are shipping without DX12 this year. I provided a bunch, and that's only for games that releasing soon.

Most of us will be on a new set of hardware before DX12 becomes the norm.

 

[AtenRa]

Zoom!

There's Aten-Ra moving the goalposts again. Went from AAA games to a subset of AAA games.

And now that I've debunked your implication that all upcoming AAA games are going to have DX12, here's just a few that don't:

God Eater 2 - DX9
One Piece Burning Blood - DX11
DEAD RISING - DX11
Pro Evolution Soccer 2017 - DX9
NBA 2K17
Mafia III
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Special Edition
DRAGON BALL XENOVERSE 2
Football Manager 2017
Call of Duty®: Infinite Warfare


I'll await your next shifting of the goalposts.

In a thread about GTX 1060 (GTX 980 performance) I can take seriously only two games of your list, Mafia III and Cal Of Duty : Infinite Warfare , the rest................im not even going to commend.

God Eater 2 - DX9

• 
  RECOMMENDED:
  • OS: Windows 7, 8, 10
    
  • Processor: Intel Core i3 4130 3.4 GHZ / AMD FX-4100 Quad-Core Processor 3.6GHz
    
  • Memory: 8 GB RAM
    
  • Graphics: GEFORCE GTX560 1GB / AMD Radeon HD 6850 1 GB
    
  • DirectX: Version 9.0
    
  • Network: Broadband Internet connection
    
  • Storage: 15 GB available space
    
  • Sound Card: DirectX compatible or onboard chipset

One Piece Burning Blood - DX11

• 
  RECOMMENDED:
  • OS: Windows 7 64-bit
    
  • Processor: Intel Core i5-4690K @3.50GHz
    
  • Memory: 8 GB RAM
    
  • Graphics: Intel Core i5-4690K @3.50GHz
    
  • DirectX: Version 11
    
  • Network: Broadband Internet connection
    
  • Storage: 20 GB available space
    
  • Sound Card: DirectX compatible soundcard or onboard chipset

Pro Evolution Soccer 2017 - DX9

• 
  RECOMMENDED:
  • OS: Windows 10, 8.1, 8, 7 SP1, Vista SP2
    
  • Processor: Intel Core i3 530 / AMD Phenom Ⅱ X4 925 or equivalent processor
    
  • Memory: 2 GB RAM
    
  • Graphics: DirectX 9.0c compatible video card. 1024MB Pixel Shader 3.0 (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260 / AMD/ATI Radeon HD4850 / Intel HD Graphics 4000 or better)
    
  • DirectX: Version 9.0c
    
  • Storage: 8 GB available space
    
  • Sound Card: DirectX 9.0c compatible sound card
    
  • Additional Notes: 1280 x 720 monitor resolution; 8x DVD-ROM Drive; TCP/IP 1.5 Mbps or higher

 

[railven]

I'm using Aten-Ra's definition, take it up with him.

As a reminder he set the definition of what is a AAA game, and then wanted to know what AAA games are shipping without DX12 this year. I provided a bunch, and that's only for games that releasing soon.

Most of us will be on a new set of hardware before DX12 becomes the norm.

Save yourself the hassle. DOOM was not a valid game and was Nvidia money-hated until the Vulkan patch came out. Nothing matters for team red until it favors team red. There is a laundry list of games I got on my radar that aren't DX12, but mentioning any of them just gets the "LOL you don't need a GTX 1080 to play those derp, NV sheep" response. Just save yourself the hassle.

 

[Phynaz]

Save yourself the hassle. DOOM was not a valid game and was Nvidia money-hated until the Vulkan patch came out. Nothing matters for team red until it favors team red. There is a laundry list of games I got on my radar that aren't DX12, but mentioning any of them just gets the "LOL you don't need a GTX 1080 to play those derp, NV sheep" response. Just save yourself the hassle.

Yep, I was about to say pretty much the same thing.

Now AtenRa is down to hand-picking the titles that should be counted. Of course he'll back-pedal and they won't count if they perform better on Nvidia.

Doesn't change the fact that TODAY, a GTX 1060 is much faster than an RX 480. So much so that AMD had to put an "X" on their product name to try to steal some cachet from Nvidia.

You'd think the Nulldozer fiasco would teach people a lesson about "future-proofing".

 

[Arachnotronic]

Save yourself the hassle. DOOM was not a valid game and was Nvidia money-hated until the Vulkan patch came out. Nothing matters for team red until it favors team red. There is a laundry list of games I got on my radar that aren't DX12, but mentioning any of them just gets the "LOL you don't need a GTX 1080 to play those derp, NV sheep" response. Just save yourself the hassle.

Amen, brother. Amen.

 

[linkgoron]

You'd think the Nulldozer fiasco would teach people a lesson about "future-proofing".

That is disingenuous. We're already seeing a majority of DX12 (and obviously Doom Vulkan) games performing better on the RX 480 vs the 1060. Also, we've seen that GCN has aged better than Kepler and Maxwell in the long run (290x/390/390x vs 780ti/970/980), so it's definitely not far-fetched that Polaris will age better than Pascal. I agree, however, that there are only a handful of games right now and we'll see how things pan out.

Some of the users here that talk about future-proofing as some kind of stupid thing are being a bit dishonest, it's quite easy to dismiss the long-term when you have no problems buying (sometimes multiple) 700$ or 1200$ cards each year.

Regarding the performance delta, Computerbase are showing that in an actual gaming case, and not in an 5 minute open-air bench, the difference between the two is not that great even in DX11, although the 1060 is still the better performer there.

Anyway, I'd prefer not to talk about the RX 480 in this thread- however it is mentioned in the thread title so I think it's OK.

 

[zinfamous]

Could you define what a AAA game is? Does a game have to be "AAA" to be good?

But yes, I can.

http://store.steampowered.com/search/?filter=comingsoon&os=win,mac

Edit:
Heh, some of the really big titles coming out are still DX9

No, it doesn't. but the point of using AAA games in benchmarks is that they are the ones that push GPUs and are really the only ones relevant to mainstream and above GPU purchases. All this talk of 100s of DX11 games vs a dozen DX12 games now and 3 dozen by the end of next year, as if that matters.

What matters is that benchmarks have been forever will be tied to only a handful of titles for each generation with a few rotating in and out, because it's really only a handful of games that matter. If we are only using 6-10 DX11 games in actual benchmarks as a sample of their class, why are people criticizing the existence of 12 DX12 games now as somehow non-informative of their class?

It really baffles me reading these threads sometimes. I get the feeling that half of AT are completely oblivious to the most basic methods of statistical sampling and standard practices for general data gathering.

 

[zinfamous]

Yep, I was about to say pretty much the same thing.

Now AtenRa is down to hand-picking the titles that should be counted. Of course he'll back-pedal and they won't count if they perform better on Nvidia.

Doesn't change the fact that TODAY, a GTX 1060 is much faster than an RX 480. So much so that AMD had to put an "X" on their product name to try to steal some cachet from Nvidia.

You'd think the Nulldozer fiasco would teach people a lesson about "future-proofing".

what a silly argument. Both names were floated and released before any benchmarks existed and before anyone outside of each group knew how the other card would perform. 1060 was released and priced in response to the 480. ...what a silly thing to suggest that entity A pre-named their product a certain way because they unkowningly assumed their product was inferior. And of course, it isn't inferior. See you in 6 months.

 

[Zaxx]

So much so that AMD had to put an "X" on their product name to try to steal some cachet from Nvidia.

Read somewhere that they went with the X (short for '10) because they are changing things up vs the R5, R7, R9 system. We'll see where it goes when they launch Vega I guess.

 

[railven]

Read somewhere that they went with the X (short for '10) because they are changing things up vs the R5, R7, R9 system. We'll see where it goes when they launch Vega I guess.

They already showed that the X is more for "extreme/enthusiast" where non-X will be for regular people (or something?) I think RTG/AMD doesn't even know what they are doing with the naming scheme anymore. I'm sure someone will come along and post the slide I'm referring to. They've slowly been copying Intel's naming scheme over in CPUs and I think it rolled over to GPU to maintain some kind of homogeneity that sort of backfired. Which is why I think they got rid of R5/R7/R9 altogether.

They've changed the naming scheme more times since AMD bought ATI than I recall ATI changing the names outside of moving from different chip names (ie Fury to Rage, etc).

EDIT:
Ah, someone from AMD explaining it:
https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=s1hQsecB4fE

 

[Pantalaimon]

So much so that AMD had to put an "X" on their product name to try to steal some cachet from Nvidia.

I din't know using an X means copying NVIDIA nowadays. When did NVIDIA copyrighted the X in a product name?

 

[Erenhardt]

I think GTX is very bad name.
GTi would sell a lot better.
And here in post soviet countries TDi would be flying off the shelves like got cakes. Every Slav squats on the sight of Golf II TDi.

 

[Abwx]

Every Slav squats on the sight of Golf II TDi.

TDi didnt exist for the Golf II, only TD and GTD, it started with the Golf III....

/End of OT

 

[fuccboi]

3GB reviewed on guru3d

edit: Rx 470 rekts it with a 14fps advantage in Dx12 hitman