Geforce GTX 780 Ti unveiled

[AdamK47]

Hawaii happened

AMD didn't think nVidia would release GK110 as a consumer card.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

AMD didn't think nVidia would release GK110 as a consumer card.

Neither did a lot of people who didn't want to accept GK104 and Tahiti's status as mid-range 28nm products with huge price hikes.

 

[ocre]

Neck and neck.??..

If more than one card is needed the 290X scaling is 93.5%
for two cards and still 86% for 3 according to AMD s slides
wich are right for dual GPU according to the first leaks.

i think it just makes more sense to wait till official reviews are up. I still have not seen any information from a source that can be trusted. I mean, what if AMD is downplaying their 290x? You know, bait and switch nvidia. They know nvidia will respond. We all knew nvidia would. So whats up with the delay? Things could easily go either way. We really do not know anything about the performance of the 290x. It may be faster or slower than these leaks. They are all from questionable sources. Every single one of them

 

[Will Robinson]

Agreed.
+1 for common sense in this matter.:thumbsup:

 

[boxleitnerb]

Official benchmarks from reviewer guides rather "up-play" performance

 

[tweakboy]

Nice card. Soo whats faster, this or 780 ..... non ti.

 

[RussianSensation]

Neither did a lot of people who didn't want to accept GK104 and Tahiti's status as mid-range 28nm products with huge price hikes.

Based on the product stack, I doubt many here denied that GK104 is not a mid-range chip. The difference is the performance is far above a mid-range next gen card. When in the history of AMD/NV did their next gen mid-range parts outperform their previous generation flagships by 40-100%+? 6600Ti vs. 5950U in DX9, but when else? HD7970GE is beating HD6970 by 70-75% on average in modern games.

Kepler just exceeded NV's expectations. It's more like 1.5 generational leap instead of a full generation. The Titan is 2x faster in BF4 over 580 and 2.5x faster over 480.

HD7970 is 2.07x faster and HD7970GE is 2.3x faster than HD6970!
GTX680 is 47% faster and GTX770 is 59% faster than GTX580!

The reason GTX680/7970GE look "mid-range" is because GK110 is the greatest leap in NV's generational hisotry since 8800GTX vs. 7900GTX.

Going from 8800GTX to 280 was a 61% increase
Going from 280 to 480 was 49% and to 580 was 67% increase.
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2011/bericht-grafikkarten-evolution/3/

If you look at that, performance of GK104/Tahiti is much closer to next generation flagships than it is to mid-range GPUs. It looks less impressive simply because Titan is 95-100% faster than GTX580!
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2013/test-nvidia-geforce-gtx-titan/7/

You can call HD7970GE/GTX680/770 mid-range if you like but historically speaking their performance, especially overclocked, is far beyond what a mid-range card would deliver.

HD7970OC / GTX680 OC vs. 580 OC would would be akin to a GTX870 OC outperforming the Titan OC by nearly 50% next round. You think that's going to happen? Not likely.

---

As far as GTX780Ti, I think NV will want to release a card that soundly beats the 290X by say at least 10%. Since NV already stated this will be the most powerful gaming GPU they've ever built, they can always replace the Titan with Titan Ultra/II as a Quadro K6000 card without having to worry about 780Ti outperforming the Titan.

The other possibility is that NV simply doesn't care if 780Ti outperforms the Titan in games. They could release a card faster than the Titan but have it DP-crippled and with only 3GB of VRAM. This way it doesn't directly compete with the Titan in the semi-prosumer space.

This generation is really unprecedented since the delay to 20nm has forced both AMD and NV to keep upping performance on 28nm. As a result, they are really pushing the mature 28nm node to the limits. GTX780Ti could end up > 2x faster than 580. I don't know how Maxwell will double Titan. NV really has outdone themselves with Kepler.

 

[Will Robinson]

Yeah I suspect there has to be some deal going on. Why would NVIDIA support this site so much otherwise? Having a slant towards one manufacturer just kills the credibility of any website IMO. Same with Anandtech and their AMD deal.

So,you saying Anand's test results are not reliable and have a bias towards AMD because of the advertising they do here?

 

[RussianSensation]

So,you saying Anand's test results are not reliable and have a bias towards AMD because of the advertising they do here?

With that logic, HardOCP's GPU reviews are all unreliable since they constantly advertise Asus, Galaxy, Gigabyte and MSI GPUs. I guess reviews of Sapphire, XFX, PowerColor are biased to favour the other brands?

AT is actually too nice in their latest R9 280X review for not ripping apart's NV's outrageous pricing on 770s.

"On a pure price/performance basis then the R9 280X is not to be ignored, as it’s going to come within a few percent of GTX 770 – depending on the game of course – for $100 less. Those are big savings that are hard to argue with and will help make R9 280X a “win” for AMD." - AT

vs.

"The new Radeon R9 cards match up very well against the competition from Nvidia, too, mostly because they're priced quite aggressively—especially the 280X. Nvidia needs to lop 50 bucks off the price of the GTX 760 and 100 bucks off the GTX 770 in order to remain competitive. Even then, the R9 280X looks to be slightly faster than the GeForce GTX 770." - TechReport

Big difference in the wording of the conclusion. TechReport practically calls 770s irrelevant in the $300-450 price level after R9 280X's launch but AT says that AMD found a sweet spot in price/performance.

I don't think the Titan owners will be upset if a $649 780Ti outperform their card. Whoever buys a $1000 GPU is either rich, uses it for other than games and/or has already considered that sooner or later a cheaper card with similar or faster performance will launch.

 

[boxleitnerb]

With all the talk about midrange, don't forget one thing:

Power consumption of those 680s and 770s is quite a bit higher than say the GTX 460/560 (Ti). Nvidia pushed GK104 quite high because they had nothing else to compete with Tahiti at that time. Afaik, they planned to clock GK104 at 950 MHz max. Then Tahiti came and Nvidia raised clocks and introduced the Boost

In theory, you could push a GPU into the next (or previous) segment by clocking it accordingly. Not by much, but 10-15% is a reasonable margin of adaptation.

 

[imaheadcase]

between this 780Ti and the 290x, if they are within %5 of each other in games its going to be a tough choice for gamers to pick. If Nvidia price is about same as amd offering, it will come down to feature sets you really want.

I don't see mantle doing anything major in games, no game company wants to cripple the other side, on other hand nvidia goes and throws into the mix some interesting tech like shadowplay and G-sync if it actually plays out to be something worthwhile.

The whole issue with lots of people is do you wait a about a month for Nvidia offering, or get AMD 290x for BF4 and hope nvidia card is not better.

Stupid choices, people make you think they are good!

 

[boxleitnerb]

It should cost the same as the GTX 780:
http://translate.googleusercontent....tx-780&usg=ALkJrhhhdqsvm9-4HGbH_In9tbC336j-XQ

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Based on the product stack, I doubt many here denied that GK104 is not a mid-range chip. The difference is the performance is far above a mid-range next gen card.

There were a lot of people who didn't agree that GK104 was a mid-range die, for whatever reason. Many also didn't believe GK110 would ever come to consumers, many believed these things.

We've never had mid-range cards use as much power as these mid-range cards do, with greater power comes greater performance.

Tahiti uses a bit over 200w and the 680 uses 170-190, granted there is still some abnormal increase in performance, but not to the point where double the price point makes any sense whatsoever.

 

[tviceman]

Based on the product stack, I doubt many here denied that GK104 is not a mid-range chip. The difference is the performance is far above a mid-range next gen card. When in the history of AMD/NV did their next gen mid-range parts outperform their previous generation flagships by 40-100%+?.

If Fermi would not have been delayed / half baked when it was released, GF114 was this. But you are right, Kepler did make a larger than normal jump than what we had been accustomed to since the 8800 GTX and 9800 Pro.

 

[Cloudfire777]

How do you know that silicon haven`t improved?

I just posted one chart earlier stating otherwise.
http://videocardz.com/images/2013/10/Tesla-K40-850x467.jpg

If it has, they can add more cores, and since its a gamers card, they can clock it more agressively than Titan.
They have a ton of power headroom from Titan up to 290X to give it more juice to reach higher clocks on those 2880 cores.

They can do GTX 780 + 1SMX though, but considering how close GTX Titan and 780 is, that would be kinda silly if you ask me.

[x] Nvidia being silly confirmed? ^_^

 

[tviceman]

[x] Nvidia being silly confirmed? ^_^

FAKE. That would have a smaller gap than the 670-680 had, in other words worthless.

 

[wand3r3r]

Assuming there is any truth to those specs what does that translate to (roughly)?

Nm if that was fake.

 

[Vesku]

between this 780Ti and the 290x, if they are within %5 of each other in games its going to be a tough choice for gamers to pick. If Nvidia price is about same as amd offering, it will come down to feature sets you really want.

I don't see mantle doing anything major in games, no game company wants to cripple the other side, on other hand nvidia goes and throws into the mix some interesting tech like shadowplay and G-sync if it actually plays out to be something worthwhile.

The whole issue with lots of people is do you wait a about a month for Nvidia offering, or get AMD 290x for BF4 and hope nvidia card is not better.

Stupid choices, people make you think they are good!

Mantle won't cripple anything in its current form, it's meant as extra extensions for the PC mimicking the kind of code that AAA game companies will be writing for the consoles. Even Carmack had to admit that it makes sense since they won both big consoles, even though he says he'd choose not to use it (not a surprise given his long relationship with Nvidia and commitment to pushing the OpenGL group to stay relevant).

 

[Vesku]

There were a lot of people who didn't agree that GK104 was a mid-range die, for whatever reason. Many also didn't believe GK110 would ever come to consumers, many believed these things.

We've never had mid-range cards use as much power as these mid-range cards do, with greater power comes greater performance.

Tahiti uses a bit over 200w and the 680 uses 170-190, granted there is still some abnormal increase in performance, but not to the point where double the price point makes any sense whatsoever.

Nvidia had a whole press conference about the increased cost of 28nm vs 40nm. It was pretty obvious that prices would be shifting up if Nvidia wanted to maintain gross margins. Granted I think we might have seen ~$400-450 instead of $500-550 28nm launch products if AMD hadn't been 3 months ahead of Nvidia to retail and decided they'd try to attain similar margins to what Nvidia has been bringing in.

 

[boxleitnerb]

FAKE. That would have a smaller gap than the 670-680 had, in other words worthless.

Why?
8,3% more SMX
4,5% more base clock
5,8% more boost clock
-> 13-14% more performance. Sounds decent to me. Even if it doesn't scale perfectly and is only 10%, it's okay and should be enough to slightly beat the 290 (non-X).

 

[blackened23]

FAKE. That would have a smaller gap than the 670-680 had, in other words worthless.

So you're under the impression that NV will overlap the Titan with a cheaper faster SKU? From a business perspective that is absolutely ridiculous, I can't agree that would happen *unless* the Titan is discontinued and replaced by a Titan ultra. And before you mention "professional" applications as for Titan price justification, Geforce does not come close to replicating Quadro in actual professional apps, I can detail this if you want but Quadro has much more functionality than the Titan does. Titan can realistically only handle CUDA dev, but the 780 can do that as well. As far as professional apps, it does not replicate Quadro functionality nor does it really come close.

780ti will be roughly equal to Titan while having a much better price. This retains Nvidia's product stack integrity - in other words, having a cheaper faster SKU is absolutely absurd IMHO. The way things are with this 780ti, their product line still makes sense and there is no overlap with stock clocks/reference cooling. Personally, I think it's fine as is. 780ti will have Titan performance at the 650$ price level with 3 free games. That doesn't sound bad to me at all.

The MOST exciting prospect of this news is where will the vanilla 780 be priced? Sub 600$? Imagine all of the overclocked vanilla 780 designs lowering by 50$ or so. That would be pretty fantastic IMHO. Heck, i'm not on the market for a new GPU but if I *were* - then I could get something like an Asus DC II 780 for 600$? And the 290X were also 600? Tough choice. There's a good chance I get the DC II 780 and overclock the heck out of it - and get 3 free games as well.

 

[Crap Daddy]

Why?
8,3% more SMX
4,5% more base clock
5,8% more boost clock
-> 13-14% more performance. Sounds decent to me. Even if it doesn't scale perfectly and is only 10%, it's okay and should be enough to slightly beat the 290 (non-X).

What do you mean 290 non-X?

 

[Cloudfire777]

Its a way for Nvidia to get closer to GTX Titan core count, while keeping a distance for the people who dished out $999 for it earlier.

Considering its clocked higher than Titan, it should reach around R9 290X performance.

I think Nvidia went the half assed way. Very dissappointed when they could have gone 2880 cores instead, but I guess that is for GTX Titan UltraExtremePowerfulMoneyMilkingMachine instead.

You suck Nvidia :thumbsdown:

PS: I hope it is fake. It could still be

 

[AdamK47]

You people honestly thought the 780 Ti would have 2880 cores and be priced the same as a regular 780?

 

[Cloudfire777]

You people honestly thought the 780 Ti would have 2880 cores and be priced the same as a regular 780?

Well atleast drop the price on the Titan to 780 price, then release a new Titan with 2880 cores. 192 cores more. Thats pathetic.

I don`t even understand how that CEO can stand there looking all proud with that lousy increase.
Oh look at us, milking the market.

You are all cows, mooooo