Gender non-conforming teen sues South Carolina DMV

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BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
The kid should be able to obtain an ID that can accurately be used to identify him.
The picture linked is suitable

(Picture of Chase dressed as someone's Grandma)
Chase Culpepper
M
DOB : Whenever

If I can get my State ID with an occasional pornstache and afro, then this kid should be able to get his picture wearing Edith Bunkers "Thursday outfit"

LMAO! And I agree.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
What's the point of the photograph on an ID? Shouldn't it be a representation of how the person looks when the ID is needed by an authority figure, such as a police officer making a stop, TSA agent verifying a ticket or clerk selling alcohol or cigarettes? If he's always wearing makeup, shouldn't the photo reflect how he's going to look when his ID is needed to verify identity? Do they make women wipe off all their makeup? Seems silly to me.
I tend to agree with the state, but that's an excellent point. Sounds like the policy may actually be defeating the point of having the policy.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,303
15
81
I agree with the thought that your ID card photo should reflect what you look like from day to day. I also think that regardless of whether or not Texashiker thinks it's a mental illness, it's every American's right to identify with whatever gender they want, and it's neither his nor my business to tell them they can't or shouldn't.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
This makes complete sense.

The problem becomes how does the DMV verify that is actually the case?
I'd suggest that problem is self-correcting. If for some inscrutable reason this otherwise normal kid decides to get his ID in drag, then every time he needs ID it's going to cause him problems. If this kid is normally in drag and is forced to forced to have his ID picture in normal male attire sans makeup, then every time he needs ID it's going to cause him problems. Only if he is conspiring to commit a crime and/or make an escape in normal male attire sans makeup is this going to be a problem for government, and one could make an argument that straight boys could even more easily commit crimes and/or make escapes in drag with normal ID photos. Certainly an otherwise normal young man would be a less likely suspect in an apparently female-committed crime than is a young man in drag in an apparently male-committed crime. Hell, they're probably looking for something with which to charge him anyway.

Just because the knee jerks does not mean the knee is necessarily correct.
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,198
4
76
I think he should be able to take his picture how he is best identified.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,602
29,319
136
I'd suggest that problem is self-correcting. If for some inscrutable reason this otherwise normal kid decides to get his ID in drag, then every time he needs ID it's going to cause him problems. If this kid is normally in drag and is forced to forced to have his ID picture in normal male attire sans makeup, then every time he needs ID it's going to cause him problems. Only if he is conspiring to commit a crime and/or make an escape in normal male attire sans makeup is this going to be a problem for government, and one could make an argument that straight boys could even more easily commit crimes and/or make escapes in drag with normal ID photos. Certainly an otherwise normal young man would be a less likely suspect in an apparently female-committed crime than is a young man in drag in an apparently male-committed crime. Hell, they're probably looking for something with which to charge him anyway.

Just because the knee jerks does not mean the knee is necessarily correct.
I think everyone should be forced to have their DMV pic taken after being blasted by a fire hose, because that's what you're going to look like when the cops are going to need an accurate ID to fill out their paperwork.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
1. The DMV office should just follow policy. Individual offices shouldn't have the discretion to deviate from it.

2. I think the policy needs a more rigorous and/or scientific basis than "Well, if that's what (s)he usually looks like". IMO, the latter is very casual and we have only the word of the person. Also, a line need be drawn somewhere. How far do we go with the 'usual look' thing? If you claim to typically wear a burqa should we allow an photo ID in one?

Fern
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
I think everyone should be forced to have their DMV pic taken after being blasted by a fire hose, because that's what you're going to look like when the cops are going to need an accurate ID to fill out their paperwork.
Good point.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Not bad, but he needs to grow the hair out more and either get breast implants or up the dosage on the female hormones. Right now I'd say he's more a CD than a TS.
Personally, if a girl is actually a guy I want that to be apparent up front - so to speak. That is NOT the kind of surprise I want sprung on me.
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
3
81
She needs to do her eyebrows some in my opinion. Also, posting in an idiotic TH thread. I'm transgender TH, and I had a father my entire childhood and still do. I occasionally go to support groups/have a lot of friends who are trans just because of how I live my life and I almost certainly know more trans people than you and their father not being their has never really come up with any of them. If anything a lot of them lived the first several decades of their life spiraling into a deep depression/homeless/in mental wards/attached to a family they'd later destroy/ or just simply dead because of their parents.

I hope she wins her suit; they need a nosebleed over this. When I got my military retiree's ID they didn't bat an eye at me having make up on or a wig even (before I was able to grow out my hair). That was how I looked all the time that's how the picture was taken.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
She needs to do her eyebrows some in my opinion. Also, posting in an idiotic TH thread. I'm transgender TH, and I had a father my entire childhood and still do. I occasionally go to support groups/have a lot of friends who are trans just because of how I live my life and I almost certainly know more trans people than you and their father not being their has never really come up with any of them. If anything a lot of them lived the first several decades of their life spiraling into a deep depression/homeless/in mental wards/attached to a family they'd later destroy/ or just simply dead because of their parents.

I hope she wins her suit; they need a nosebleed over this. When I got my military retiree's ID they didn't bat an eye at me having make up on or a wig even (before I was able to grow out my hair). That was how I looked all the time that's how the picture was taken.
Holly came from Miami, F.L.A.
Hitch-hiked her way across the U.S.A.
Plucked her eyebrows on the way
Shaved her legs and then he was a she
She says, "Hey, babe,
Take a walk on the wild side."
Said, "Hey, honey,
Take a walk on the wild side."
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
3
81
All must bend to the will of the alphabet people.

Is it really that bad to see someone balk at being denied living like a human being?

Imagine you went to the DMV with a beard and they told you they didn't allow beards. Imagine the person ahead of you had a beard and got their license just fine. Now, imagine every time you have to show your ID, you're going to be barraged with questions about the difference in looks and potentially verbally or even physically harassed.

Forget all the other shit in the thread. How would the above scenario make you feel?
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
Is it really that bad to see someone balk at being denied living like a human being?

Imagine you went to the DMV with a beard and they told you they didn't allow beards. Imagine the person ahead of you had a beard and got their license just fine. Now, imagine every time you have to show your ID, you're going to be barraged with questions about the difference in looks and potentially verbally or even physically harassed.

Forget all the other shit in the thread. How would the above scenario make you feel?
I'd give some real serious thought to the choices I was making. If it was important to me to have a beard, dress in flamboyant drag and wear makeup in public, I'd be adult about it and bear the burden. I'd also realize that my lifestyle is representative of a minute percentage of the population and asking everybody else to change to make me happier was unrealistic.

If you want to behave far outside the norms of society you should fully expect to draw attention. If you don't like that attention or if you're upset that you're drawing it, seeking professional help should be a consideration. It couldn't be any simpler. As far as your statement about "potentially verbally or even physically harassed", that's a red flag. If you have fears because of the way you choose to present yourself to society, some soul searching is in order.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,346
15,158
136
Man with daughter in the slammer judges other people's parenting.

Well that's what happens when you have a dead beat dad. TH recognizes his mistakes and now he wants everyone else to pay for it by doing things his way. Most people don't tend to listen to those that suck at life though. That's why they are always trying to give advice, hoping that one day someone will listen to them, as if they were looking for redemption.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
The line will be drawn when the first white dude shows up in blackface. When that occurs, we'll see the intolerance of the 'tolerant' on full display.

Just because someone is born into a Caucasian body does not mean they are not an African-American. Who is the state to say what your race is?
 
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