General Discussion forked from Nvidia Quadro P6000 Review

[poofyhairguy]

It's a great deal anyway.

It is. That is what I feel is the correct price for a 1070.

Hell I would buy it but I want 1080 levels of power for my next upgrade just to stay that far ahead the PS4 Pro. Given that price, a 1080 needs to be about $460-$480 to be worth it. I hope the 490 gets us there.

 

[Head1985]

There is no other way to look at it.

Last gen Fury X came fairly close 980Tis, and this gen the 1080 is already the 3rd fastest GPU NVIDIA sells, soon to be the fourth. Fourth fastest is definitely mid range.

I'll be shocked if Vega beats 1080 based on how far below 1080 the 480 8GB is:

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_1080_Amp_Extreme/29.html

If the 490 is twice as fast as the 480 it will barely be faster than a 1080 factory OC. That would be OK if the MSRP is $499, but if AMD comes with that level of performance at $599-$699 this generation officially becomes the worst for consumers ever.

1080Ti will be $899/$999, Titan Ps will stay $1200, and to be computer gamers will blow. (unless a person likes paying $1000 for each generation high end)

The end of SLi and CF in DX12 just cements this, no buying two mid range cards and getting high end performance. Used to be NV and AMD would work with devs (readay) to get good multi gpu support, apparently no longer.

I am pretty sure this is already worst GPU era ever.Vega wont change much.It will be close to 1year behind pascal.If AMD dont show vega at CES we can be sure its still 4-6 months away.
Pascal is underwhelming in performance(max OC vs max OC) vs maxwell.Skyhigh prices outside USA, AMD only launched 7870 successor(vega will be 7970 successor)-yeah worst GPU era ever.

Its like AMD launched in kepler era only 7870 and nothing faster and nv counter it with GTX660.Then launch GTX680 for 700USD(GTX680 was 500USD at launch).Then GTX670 not faster than GTX580 for 450USD(gtx670 was 20% faster than GTX580 for 400)
That is pretty much what we have now today.

 

[tential]

I am pretty sure this is already worst GPU era ever.Vega wont change much.It will be close to 1year behind pascal.If AMD dont show vega at CES we can be sure its still 4-6 months away.
Pascal is underwhelming in performance(max OC vs max OC) vs maxwell.Skyhigh prices outside USA, AMD only launched 7870 successor(vega will be 7970 successor)-yeah worst GPU era ever.

Its like AMD launched in kepler era only 7870 and nothing faster and nv counter it with GTX660.Then launch GTX680 for 700USD(GTX680 was 500USD at launch).Then GTX670 not faster than GTX580 for 450USD(gtx670 was 20% faster than GTX580 for 400)
That is pretty much what we have now today.

This gpu era makes me want to quit PC gaming

 

[OatisCampbell]

This gpu era makes me want to quit PC gaming

AMD has a "chance" to make it the way it was.

If they launch a card that trades blows with the 1080FE for $499 MSRP they will sell a lot and bring 1080s down to $499 as well.

If they can manage something that splits difference between 1080 and 1080Ti/Titan P and sell it at $650 they will dominate until NVIDIA matches them on price.

The public perception of AMD is "the bargain brand" and they won't shake that in the CPU market because intel sells good CPUs for $300-$400, and people are willing to pay that.

In the GPU market AMD has much stronger brand name, and people will switch in a heartbeat to save $100.. Their main problem is NVs slick play making the 1070 very affordable to the enthusiast crowd and selling a ton of them. 1070 and 1080 owners aren't buying 1080 level performance, so all that remains of the market is AMD diehards and people who buy lower end cards normally.

Being very late to market has consequences in both share and margin.

 

[happy medium]

AMD only launched 7870 successor(vega will be 7970 successor)-yeah worst GPU era ever.

The 7970 successor was the 290x, and the 390x. The 7950 had the 290 and 390 as its successor.
The 7870 successor was the 280x and the 7850's successor was the 280.
The Fury line was made to compete with the Nvidia Ti/Titan lineup.

Let me break it down for ya.
gtx690 vs 7990
gtx680 vs 7970
gtx670 vs 7950
gtx660 vs 7870
gtx650 vs 7850

Titan vs no single gpu competition
gtx780 (gtx680 line refresh) vs 7970 ghz edition. (7970 refresh)
quote from Anandtech review
"The GeForce GTX 780 is the follow-up to last year’s GeForce GTX 680, and is a prime example of refreshing a product line by bringing in a larger, more powerful GPU that was previously relegated to a higher tier product."
gtx770 vs 7950B as per Anand review or the ghz edition
gtx760 vs 7870 (again)

gtx780ti/gtx980 vs 290x
gtx780/970 vs 290
gtx770 vs 280x
gtx760 vs 280

Titanx / gtx980ti vs the Fury line
gtx980 vs 390x
gtx970 vs 390
gtx960 vs 380
gtx950 vs 370?

Guessing here.....
big Vega vs Titan /1080ti
little Vega vs 1080
490 vs 1070
480 vs 1060
470 vs 1050ti
460 vs 1050

If history repeats itself ,Nvidia will refresh in 2017.......
Titan (2017 edition) vs no competiton or mabe some dual gpu card
gtx 1180 (refreshed titan xp) vs big vega
gtx 1170 ( gtx1080) vs little vega
gtx 1160 (gtx 1070) vs rx485? (480 ghz edition)
gtx 1150ti (gtx1060) vs rx 475? (470 ghz edition)


Just like Nvidia made the Titan/ti products, AMD made the Fury/Vega products.
Its really not that hard to understand.
As usual Nvidia will be faster and cost more and AMD will position its cards in between the Nvidia cards be a little slower and a little cheaper.

 

[Head1985]

The 7970 successor was the 290x, and the 390x. The 7950 had the 290 and 390 as its successor.
The 7870 successor was the 280x and the 7850's successor was the 280.
The Fury line was made to compete with the Nvidia Ti/Titan lineup.

Let me break it down for ya.
gtx690 vs 7990
gtx680 vs 7970
gtx670 vs 7950
gtx660 vs 7870
gtx650 vs 7850

Titan vs no single gpu competition
gtx780 (gtx680 line refresh) vs 7970 ghz edition. (7970 refresh)
quote from Anandtech review
"The GeForce GTX 780 is the follow-up to last year’s GeForce GTX 680, and is a prime example of refreshing a product line by bringing in a larger, more powerful GPU that was previously relegated to a higher tier product."
gtx770 vs 7950B as per Anand review or the ghz edition
gtx760 vs 7870 (again)

gtx780ti/gtx980 vs 290x
gtx780/970 vs 290
gtx770 vs 280x
gtx760 vs 280

Titanx / gtx980ti vs the Fury line
gtx980 vs 390x
gtx970 vs 390
gtx960 vs 380
gtx950 vs 370?

Guessing here.....
big Vega vs Titan /1080ti
little Vega vs 1080
490 vs 1070
480 vs 1060
470 vs 1050ti
460 vs 1050

If history repeats itself ,Nvidia will refresh in 2017.......
Titan (2017 edition) vs no competiton
gtx 1180 (refreshed titan xp) vs big vega
gtx 1170 ( gtx1080) vs little vega
gtx 1160 (gtx 1070) vs rx485? (480 ghz edition)
gtx 1150ti (gtx1060) vs rx 475? (470 ghz edition)


Just like Nvidia made the Titan/ti products, AMD made the Fury/Vega products.
Its really not that hard to understand.

all wrong
Try compare die size
7870 212mm2-rx480 232mm2
7970 was 350mm2 so there is no successor on AMD side on 14nm yet.Biggest SKu is rx480.
290x is 440mm2
Fury x is 600mm2

Rumored 4096SP VEGA indicating +- 350mm2 SKU-7970 successor.

On Nv side:
GTX680-294mm2-GTX1080 313mm2

 

[happy medium]

all wrong

proof is on you , show me how I'm wrong.
Truth is , what I posted is a fact (except the guessing) and your opinion can't change that.

My links are ready.................

 

[happy medium]

all wrong
Try compare die size
7870 212mm2-rx480 232mm2
7970 was 350mm2 so there is no successor on AMD side on 14nm yet.Biggest SKu is rx480.
290x is 440mm2
Fury x is 600mm2

Rumored 4096SP VEGA indicating +- 350mm2 SKU-7970 successor.

die size means nothing. try again.
Die sizes can change for many reasons, It never reflects what card competes with what card, performance does and sometimes price.

If a 100mm rx 480 was 350$ and about as fast as a 300mm gtx1070, that would be the gtx1070's competition. Die size means nothing!

 

[Bacon1]

I'll be shocked if Vega beats 1080 based on how far below 1080 the 480 8GB is:

That doesn't make any sense though. Thats like saying that the Nvidia could never have a 1080 because the 1060 is so far behind it.

Fury X can meet / beat the 1070 in some games. They can get better performance out of a high end part. You get better perf / die size because a chunk of the die is for parts you only need once, while the rest you can scale up with just more shaders / "owkrers".

 

[happy medium]

Fury X can meet / beat the 1070 in 2 games @ 4k resolution , and these games heavily favor AMD cards

I fixed that for ya.

 

[Bacon1]

I fixed that for ya. But I did so incorrectly so I'm sorry

Fixed that for you.

Stop detracting from the point of my post and misquoting me please.

 

[Head1985]

die size means nothing.

Die size means everything if you want sort performance tiers from one gpu manufacturer.
You have low end part
Mid-range/mainstream part
performance part
High end part

rx460 is low end part
RX470/480 are mid-range part
7970 was performance
290x/fury was high end.
AMD didnt release 7970 successor on 14nm node yet.

 

[happy medium]

Fixed that for you.

Stop detracting from the point of my post and misquoting me please.

That's a demo, and in no way reflects how performance will be in the final product, it means little to nothing. unless you think a gtx980 should be slaughtering a 290x.

 

[happy medium]

Die size means everything if you want sort performance tiers from one gpu manufacturer.

Only if the manufacturer was competing with itself!

 

[Head1985]

Only if the manufacturer was competing with itself!

We talking about rx480 successor whole time.
Rx480 is 7870 successor.Cant compete with GTX1070/1080.Just like 7870 didnt compete with GTX680.
Vega will be 7970 successor so it should compete with NV performance tier-GTX1080.Just like 7970 compete with GTX680.

 

[happy medium]

rx460 is low end part
RX470/480 are mid-range part
7970 was performance
290x/fury was high end.
AMD didnt release 7970 successor on 14nm node yet.

What? your kidding right?
ARe you trying to say the 290x was not the successor of the 7970?
what was the 290x the successor to then?

 

[happy medium]

Vega will be 7970 successor

No my friend. Vega is the Fury successor.
I give up.

 

[Head1985]

No my friend. Vega is the Fury successor.
I give up.

So vega will be 600mm2 SKU?

 

[Bacon1]

That's a demo, and in no way reflects how performance will be in the final product, it means little to nothing. unless you think a gtx980 should be slaughtering a 290x.

You are right, AMD should be even faster on release.

The point of my post was that Fury X can already compete with 1070 in many games, so having the 1080p improvements Polaris brought for tessellation and overhead reduction with the increased shaders in a larger die will allow it to perform very well. Saying its impossible for AMD to match 1080 just because 480 is lower performance doesn't make sense. Similar to saying that 1080 is impossible because 1060 is a lower performance bracket. It doesn't make sense to say that and try to compare them.

 

[happy medium]

So vega will be 600mm2 SKU?

You answer my question and I think you will answer your own as well.

Here ya go...

what was the 290x the successor to then?

Hint: 7970

 

[happy medium]

The point of my post was that Fury X can already compete with 1070 in many games

The point of my post is that you exaggerating your opinion based on 2 games (no demo's) that heavily favor AMD.
In no way is a Fury X in the same class as a gtx1070, unless you base your facts on 2 out of 100 games.
Lets not even mention the Fury has only 4gb of memory, uses 2x the power which will toast your case and mabe even your room, and overclocks like crap.

 

[Bacon1]

The point of my post is that you exaggerating your opinion based on 2 games (no demo's) that heavily favor AMD.
In no way is a Fury X in the same class as a gtx1070, unless you base your facts on 2 out of 100 games.
Lets not even mention the Fury has only 4gb of memory, uses 2x the power which will toast your case and mabe even your room, and overclocks like crap.

I see you are still completely missing the point of the post so I won't bother responding further. I'm not saying buy a Fury over a 1070. I'm saying that AMD can get to 1080 performance with their newer high end parts (VEGA).

 

[Head1985]

You answer my question and I think you will answer your own as well.

Here ya go...

what was the 290x the successor to then?

Hint: 7970

290x was AMD first attempt in high end.It was also on same node as 7970.
You need compare die size on new node-28nm and now on 14/16nm.

7770-123mm2 28nm - rx460-123mm2 14nm gp107 competitor
7870-212mm2 28nm - rx480-232mm2 14nm gp106 competitor
7970-350mm2 28nm - Small vega +-350mm2??? 14nm GP104 competitor
290x-440mm2 28nm - big vega +-440mm2??? 14nm GP102 competitor
Furyx-600mm2 28nm- dont know maybe if we are stuck on 14nm 5years like on 28nm 600mm2 SKU will be released BIG GV102(volta) competitor

 

[happy medium]

I'm saying that AMD can get to 1080 performance with their newer high end parts

I agree, but after almost a year after the 1080, that's not saying much.

 

[happy medium]

290x was AMD first attempt in high end

So your saying the 4890, 5780, 6970, and 7970 was their mid range?
They were all the fastest video cards they produced, how can they not be high end?
Please go back and read Anandtech reviews for the 5870,6970 and 7970 and come back and let me know if they were high end.

Let me show you again.....I read all the reviews and did my homework.
This is how the following videocards competed. I didn't say GPU"S, I said VIDEOCARDS!
Videocards don't have mm sizes. Die size does not mean crap.

Let me break it down for ya.
gtx690 vs 7990
gtx680 vs 7970
gtx670 vs 7950
gtx660 vs 7870
gtx650 vs 7850

Titan vs no single gpu competition
gtx780 (gtx680 line refresh) vs 7970 ghz edition. (7970 refresh)
quote from Anandtech review
"The GeForce GTX 780 is the follow-up to last year’s GeForce GTX 680, and is a prime example of refreshing a product line by bringing in a larger, more powerful GPU that was previously relegated to a higher tier product."
gtx770 vs 7950B as per Anand review or the ghz edition
gtx760 vs 7870 (again)

gtx780ti/gtx980 vs 290x
gtx780/970 vs 290
gtx770 vs 280x
gtx760 vs 280

Titanx / gtx980ti vs the Fury line
gtx980 vs 390x
gtx970 vs 390
gtx960 vs 380
gtx950 vs 370?

Guessing here.....
big Vega vs Titan /1080ti
little Vega vs 1080
490 vs 1070
480 vs 1060
470 vs 1050ti
460 vs 1050

If history repeats itself ,Nvidia will refresh in 2017.......
Titan (2017 edition) vs no competiton or mabe some dual gpu card
gtx 1180 (refreshed titan xp) vs big vega
gtx 1170 ( gtx1080) vs little vega
gtx 1160 (gtx 1070) vs rx485? (480 ghz edition)
gtx 1150ti (gtx1060) vs rx 475? (470 ghz edition)


Just like Nvidia made the Titan/ti products, AMD made the Fury/Vega products.
Its really not that hard to understand.
As usual Nvidia will be faster and cost more and AMD will position its cards in between the Nvidia cards be a little slower and a little cheaper.