General Home Theater Audio Thread

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Howard
Whoah, just found this thread.

Stop admiring the cast iron pans and you will see non cooking threads again.

 

[Tiamat]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: Howard
Whoah, just found this thread.

Stop admiring the cast iron pans and you will see non cooking threads again.

It takes a while for the smell of a perfectly cooked ribeye to dissipate

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Tiamat

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: Howard
Whoah, just found this thread.

Stop admiring the cast iron pans and you will see non cooking threads again.

It takes a while for the smell of a perfectly cooked ribeye to dissipate

more like absorbed into the walls

 

[herm0016]

Radient seems to have discontinued there speakers. sad, because they were really nice too.

 

[Emulex]

if i have 4 inputs

composite (wii)
component (xbox1/xbmc)
pc (hdmi)
directtv (hdmi)

thats 3 high def sources with toslink input

and 1 low def source and stereo in

I'd like to have a single hdmi out; switching all audio and upsampling all video.

preferably 6.1 so i dont have to re-arrange my speakers.

without any hdcp compatibility errors.

Anyone have a good receiver recommendation for cheaps i think the shoponky 906/905 would be good but that is above my price range $1000-1100 and the 806 has a poor dcdi based on reviews.

perhaps sony or harmon kardon or others could accomplish this with some coupon/refurb love?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

If you're looking on shoponkyo, the $999 905 or $799 875 would be options with good conversion to HDMI.

 

[thomsbrain]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
If you're looking on shoponkyo, the $999 905 or $799 875 would be options with good conversion to HDMI.

Yeah, they would be good as long as they don't have the audio lag issues of the 805. There are some Denon models that do all he wants, too. I got the Denon AVR-988 (same as 2808) for $550. With a budget twice that, I'd imagine he can get something really nice, especially if he gets an outgoing model.

Emulex, Amazon.com has the outgoing models from Onkyo and Denon (maybe others, too) for really great prices. The outgoing Onkyos end in "5" and the outgoing Denons end in "8". Usually the only differences between those and the new models are a few watts more power or another HDMI input. It's an easy trade-off for getting the receiver 50% off.

 

[s44]

Perhaps a section explaining HDMI audio vs. coax/optical, bitstreaming over HDMI 1.3 vs. LPCM over HDMI 1.1 vs. analog, and the lossless versions of DD/DTS vs. the standard ones would be useful? Or should that go in a separate post (Blu-Ray, your sound system, and you)?

 

[3chordcharlie]

Forgot to put in a thanks to YOyo for advice on adding shakers to my setup.

I ended up finding a trashed sub with a working amp (w/ crossover) for next to nothing, and a pair of aura shakers for $25.

It took some setting up to get everything working as I wanted (hint to anyone working on this - if you can get your setup to work well for 'Hitman', you've probably got it dialed in just right), but now it is.

The whole project cost under $100 (for one couch, I have most of the parts to do two more chairs, or a second couch leftover), and was well worth it.

Thanks!

PS, anyone in Southern Ontario who needs to unload AS or LS series Athena speakers should let me know.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: s44
Perhaps a section explaining HDMI audio vs. coax/optical, bitstreaming over HDMI 1.3 vs. LPCM over HDMI 1.1 vs. analog, and the lossless versions of DD/DTS vs. the standard ones would be useful? Or should that go in a separate post (Blu-Ray, your sound system, and you)?

If you want to write one up and keep it updated, go right ahead

I've been kind of down lately and I don't think I'm up to writing anything.

 

[erwos]

HDMI 1.0 vs HDMI 1.3:

The High Definition Multimedia Interface, better known by its acronym as HDMI, was created by a consortium of consumer electronics companies in 2002-2003. HDMI was designed to alleviate problems found with earlier audio and video connections, as well as provide protection to the content being transmitted across it (via HDCP). It can be thought of as a master-of-all-trades connection - it can transmit very high-resolution video, lossless audio, and control information simultaneously.

There are essentially only two versions of HDMI which really matter: 1.0 and 1.3. Versions 1.1 and 1.2 added DVD-A and SACD/DSD transport support (respectively), which is not of much interest to most users here. Later versions of 1.3, such as 1.3a, only added additional HDMI-CEC support and additional cable testing protocols.

What's the difference between 1.0 and 1.3? 1.3 has support for deep color, XvYCC, lip-sync, and DTS-HD MA and TrueHD transport. 1.0 does not. Note that 1.0 _does_ have support for full-bitrate 1080p video and multi-channel PCM audio.

Most HDMI cables that are rated for HDMI 1.0 operation can support HDMI 1.3. This is not ALWAYS the case, however, so be wary if you experience problems with them. When in doubt, try a new cable from Monoprice or the like.

Now, the question: do you really need HDMI 1.3 or just HDMI 1.0 in your receiver?

If you're not using Blu-Ray, you don't need HDMI 1.3. If you're using your PS3 as your sole Blu-Ray player, you don't need HDMI 1.3. If you have a Blu-Ray player which can internally decode all of the high bitrate audio codecs (DD+, DTS-HD HR, TrueHD, DTS-HD MA), such as the BDP-S550, you don't need HDMI 1.3.

If you have a Blu-Ray player which cannot decode all HBR audio codecs, such as the BDP-S350 or most of the super-cheap BR-D players, you will want HDMI 1.3 (and support in your receiver for decoding these codecs). If you want to do direct transport of DVD-A or SACD audio (eg, without rendering to LPCM first), you will want HDMI 1.3 (and support in your receiver for decoding this data).

Deep Color is not used in any currently-available sources (the PS3 is capable of it, but does not actually use it). XvYCC can lend a slight image quality boost, but is not essential. Lip-synch _is_ very helpful in some circumstances, but is not necessary in most setups except as a convenience.

 

[erwos]

Bitstream vs PCM

There are two ways your DVD or Blu-Ray player can send audio to your receiver over HDMI or SPDIF (optical/coax). They can send the compressed data raw off the disc - this is known as "bitstreaming". Or, they can decode the data onboard and send the uncompressed data to the receiver - this is known as sending PCM. Some Blu-Ray discs only contain PCM data - in this case, you're sending PCM down the line no matter what, unless your player can downgrade it to DD-5.1 or DTS.

With regards to SPDIF (optical/coax), the interface is limited to a maximum of 2 PCM channels, a Dolby Digital 5.1 stream, or a DTS stream. Considering that this is roughly analogous to what a standard DVD can hold, you're not missing anything audio-wise by hooking up your DVD player to your receiver via SPDIF (optical/coax). Basically, if you're using SPDIF, you need to be using bitstream to get surround sound. You cannot send DD+, DTS-HD HR, TrueHD, or DTS-HD MA signals down an SPDIF connection, period, end of story, which makes it less than preferable for using with Blu-Ray players.

HDMI, however, has the bandwidth transmit a full 8 channels of PCM (better known as LPCM) or any the bitstream of any audio codec - including the fancy new ones like DD+, DTS-HD HR, TrueHD, and DTS-HD MA. This presents an interesting dilemma in conjunction with Blu-Ray - should the player do the decoding and send PCM straight to the receiver, or should it just send on the compressed track and let the receiver handle it (bitstream output)? Let's discuss each option.

PCM output from the player:
+ potentially cheaper receiver (no need for decoding hardware)
+ mixing for BR-D special features
+ possible use of analog outputs for lossless surround sound
+ only requires HDMI 1.0 support
- some receivers can't do processing on PCM inputs
? player might do a worse job than receiver when decoding lossy codecs such as DD+, DTS-HD HR, DD-5.1, and DTS.

Bitstream output from the player:
+ cheaper player
+ better processing from receiver (generally)
- lack of decoding on player means no lossless surround analog output
- no mixing for BR-D special features (downgrade to DD-5.1 / DTS)
- requires HDMI 1.3
? receiver might do a worse job than player when decoding lossy codecs such as DD+, DTS-HD HR, DD-5.1, and DTS.

On the balance, PCM output is probably the way to go with your Blu-Ray player _if_ you have the option (eg, HDMI, internal decoding of all HBR audio codecs on the player). But, if you find yourself with a lot of discs using DD+ or DTS-HD HR, which are lossy codecs, you might consider using bitstream just to see if you notice a difference. The same goes if you prefer your receiver to do a lot of processing on your audio. There _are_ valid situations when bitstream output may be preferable over PCM output, despite what some of the "PS3 is the bestest Blu-Ray player ever" crowd may say.

That said, let us be clear: with lossless codecs (TrueHD, DTS-HD MA), there should be ZERO difference between your player or receiver doing the decoding. If you hear a difference, it's either in your head or a result of your receiver doing processing on the audio. Given that the bulk of new Blu-Ray movies use these lossless codecs, PCM output from your player (internal decoding) is certainly preferable for its mixing capabilities.

 

[thomsbrain]

erwos' posts are accurate to the best of my knowledge and explain things well. :thumbsup:

 

[erwos]

5.1 vs 7.1

A common question that new home theater enthusiasts have is whether they should go with a 5.1 or a 7.1 system. The answer, as in any good question, is "it depends".

The first thing to do is to determine whether you have sources which natively output in 7.1. These days, the list of possibilities is:
1. Some PS3 games (generally published by Sony)
2. A few Blu-Ray movies, such as Hellboy II. Most Blu-Rays are 5.1.
3. Your PC, if you've got the appropriate sound card/chipset and outputs, plus software which can do 7.1. Note that not all HDMI outputs on the PC support 7.1 output.

As you can see, there are not a lot of 7.1 sources available right now. That's sure to change in the future as more Blu-Ray movies and game consoles are released, but it's not a very compelling feature on that native source front for the moment.

However, there is another matter to be discussed: matrixing. Using technologies like Dolby Digital Pro-Logic IIx and Neural Surround (the latter now owned by DTS!), non-7.1 sources can be upconverted to 7.1. In some cases, such as with sources that specially encode for these formats, or even just start out in 5.1, the effect can be fairly convincing. A lack of 7.1 material will not necessarily prohibit you from using all 8 channels!

A reasonable strategy would be to concentrate on your 5.1 setup, but, if you absolutely feel the need, purchase a pair of cheap-but-decent speakers for the additional two channels to make 7.1. Those two speakers should always be the last priority when upgrading, at least until you begin to have a real accumulation of native 7.1 material and sources. Given the ambient sounds that usually play on surround channels, it is unlikely you'll suffer any real quality degradation by using speakers that might not quite measure up to the rest of your setup.

 

[thomsbrain]

I would imagine using lesser-quality speakers for the rear surrounds on a 7.1 system would be even more acceptable on modern Audyssey XT-equipped receivers where the frequency response is balanced out by individual channel, which masks differences in "voice" between speaker models. You still lose clarity, but you won't be distracted by certain frequencies resonating or honking at you from the rear.

 

[imported_frankgrimes]

anyone able to help with choosing speakers etc for home studio use? pm please, i know f*ck all and dont wanna spam the whole board. thanks

 

[kara7]

hi, I'm a newbie. Can anybody help me?

I've some problems with the sound of my computer, recently I've tried to change the type of my videos and it lose it's sound. I changed it back again but no result,there were no sound. I've some other videos that lack those options.
Can anybody tell me what was the problem, and what can I do? The videos are too important for me.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

I don't really know what you're talking about. Can you give more details?

You changed the type of videos? What does that mean?

 

[kara7]

I mean I've changed the program. At first I open the videos with media player, then I changed it to winump.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Maybe you should make a thread of your own in here to get more opinions. I'm still not quite sure what to make of this.

 

[s44]

The BIC H100 has been superseded by the F12, which lacks the nice glossy top and bottom but is cheaper (at or below $200 shipped).

 

[Patrick Wolf]

Which of these setups would give the best bang for your buck? Price not so much the concern as sound quality. Also open to other options, but total cost should be at or below $550. Setup will be used for everything; movies, games, music: in that order. Side note: Current setup is the Klipsch Promedia 5.1 (non-ultra verson).

1. Quintet III + Dayton Basic Sub (8" or 10"). Quintet III can be had for about $400 on ebay + $100-$150 for the Sub: $500-$550 depending on Sub

2. Energy Take Classic 5.1: $400.

3. Not sure how good the included sub is on the Take Classic so I stumbled upon this option. Energy Take Classic 5.0 + Dayton Basic Sub (8" or 10"). $300-$350 depending on Sub.

Option 3 seems like an incredible bang for your buck, but I'm not sure how the Quintet III speakers compare to the Take Classic's.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: s44
The BIC H100 has been superseded by the F12, which lacks the nice glossy top and bottom but is cheaper (at or below $200 shipped).

Do you have updated information I could use to put in the thread then? Is ebay still the best source for those?

Originally posted by: Patrick Wolf
Which of these setups would give the best bang for your buck? Price not so much the concern as sound quality. Also open to other options, but total cost should be at or below $550. Setup will be used for everything; movies, games, music: in that order. Side note: Current setup is the Klipsch Promedia 5.1 (non-ultra verson).

1. Quintet III + Dayton Basic Sub (8" or 10"). Quintet III can be had for about $400 on ebay + $100-$150 for the Sub: $500-$550 depending on Sub

2. Energy Take Classic 5.1: $400.

3. Not sure how good the included sub is on the Take Classic so I stumbled upon this option. Energy Take Classic 5.0 + Dayton Basic Sub (8" or 10"). $300-$350 depending on Sub.

Option 3 seems like an incredible bang for your buck, but I'm not sure how the Quintet III speakers compare to the Take Classic's.

Why don't you make a thread about this? I have a feeling that not many people are going to come to this thread to look at the last post.

 

[s44]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: s44
The BIC H100 has been superseded by the F12, which lacks the nice glossy top and bottom but is cheaper (at or below $200 shipped).

Do you have updated information I could use to put in the thread then? Is ebay still the best source for those?

Well, there are two subs claiming to derive from the H100. There's the F12, which is BIC's direct replacement. The Twister Group and Beach Audio had it for just under $200, but both are OOS right now. You can also get it through Amazon.

There's also the Premier Acoustics PA-120, which seems to be sold by the same ebay guy who was selling the H100 there before. It's a different company from BIC, though it may be the same Chinese source or something as the H100. No one's tested all three subs together, to see how different these similar but not exactly identical items are. This one i still $230 on ebay (search for PA-120, though he's still putting H100 in the auction titles).

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Thanks!