General thoughts on DFI boards

[JCKC]

I'm getting prepared for a new system build in September. My current system is going on three years old (AMD 3800 X2) and it's time to upgrade.

I've been out of touch for a while but have been lurking here the past week or so trying to get up to speed.

I've been looking at different brands of motherboards and am wondering what the general consensus is on DFI boards. I know that ASUS and GIGABYTE are popular brands but I've seen mentions of problems related to each here on the forum.

I have no need to overclock, no SLI, no CrossFire, and no RAID. This new build will just be a basic system with quietness and reliability in mind. It will be used for general office tasks, internet browsing, light graphics work (Corel Graphics), and some DVD burning. I plan on going with an Intel E8400 and two gigs of RAM. I have XP-Pro already so I don't know yet if I'll upgrade to Vista or not. A 512mb graphics card is on tap though I have yet to start looking at those.

Any suggestions on a good, reliable board is appreciated. If I should consider something other than DFI, please let me know. Thanks in advance!
_______________
JohnC - Kechi, KS

 

[Rike]

DFI tend to be the tweakers' board. Arcane bios settings galore. Most people who buy a DFI board are looking for ultimate control over every last setting that can be set and OC like crazy. Some DFI mobos have been very stable while others have been a bit fussy.

For what you are describing, my first thought was "Intel." My second thought was "Asus" though I've had equally good success with MSI boards too.

 

[lopri]

DFI today is the best of both worlds, IMO. Its boards no longer come equipped with BIOS that must be tweaked. Its default BIOS is very good, and at the same time it gives you a very precise control. It's been my favorite brand ever since NF4 SLI-D/Ultra.

ASUS is very very user-friendly. Mild to moderate overclocking is usually achieved without touching anything, and the control given to users is just as in depth as that of DFI's. The catch is that the board doesn't always listen to you. This is a twofer. First, of course you get frustrated because of it. Second, but by not listening to you, usually the board saves itself and recovers better when you do something stupid. ASUS boards tend to have the better layout and features than others as well.

 

[Gillbot]

Aigo convinced me to drop my Neo2-FR for a LT P35, I'm not overly impressed yet. It does seem to be a shade more stable but with all the extra bios options, it is definately NOT for those who want an easy OC. Way too many settings for the average OC'er. You need to be a hardcore tweaker when you open up the bios.

 

[Sylvanas]

DFI are generally considered 'not for beginners' due to their large array of BIOS settings, but as Lopri said they have come a long way and now have a good set of defaults so for the average user you can set it and forget it for most of the time- as for reliability, well I still run my DFI NF4 SLI-D and its been what, 5 years or something? Hasn't missed a beat.

I have no need to overclock, no SLI, no CrossFire, and no RAID.

Probably best to go with the best budget board in your price bracket then, don't just shoot for one company. You will get many people having good and bad experiences with a number of brands but in general, the big four (MSI, Asus, Giga, Foxconn) always have solid budget boards. For you're build I would recommend the MSI P45 Neo3 FR for around $100.

 

[mikemcc]

I have used DFI for quite a long time like the system in my sig. But that wasn't the first -- I still have a couple of sistas lying around here somewhere. The build in my sig was fun, but it took me weeks to get everything ironed out for a decent OC. The board was picky with which brands of memory it would work with and which power supplies it liked. And there were SO many BIOS options... But once I got everything dialed in, the board was rock solid. And now that I have built my new system, I have passed that one on to my boys (ages 9 and 10) and they use it for gaming all the time. Still rock solid. I know that you aren't into OCing, but if you are looking for reliability and stability, my understanding is that DFI has for a very long time been reliable and their stability has improved a lot. And if the standard BIOS settings are, as others say here, suitable for a stock system, then DFI is a good choice as long as prices are in line with others.

When I did this build, I used a Gigabyte DS3R because OCing seems to have become very easy and you can use any number of different board brands to get a nice OC. And you don't have to pay a price premium to do it. Even cheap, sub-$100 boards seem to work rather well. Sure, I suppose that a $300 board has more bells and whistles, but I don't need them. They also might give you a slightly higher OC, but the bang for the buck isn't there for me, and you can tell from my sig system that I am really into that...

All that said, I really like DFI and will almost certainly buy again. One other thing about DFI is that they have DFI Street, one of the better motherboard forums out there. Actually, in my opinion, it's the best MB forum, though some may disagree. There are tons of folks on that forum who are very helpful in tracking down problems and giving advice about their DFI boards.

As to Gigabyte and Asus boards having problems, I guess some of them do. Like the Gigabyte DPC latency issue -- I've read about it but don't have any problems. But there are tons of folks like me who are using these boards with no problems at all. Same with Asus. Both good MB brands and I certainly see no real reason to shy away from most of them.

 

[Rike]

Originally posted by: mikemcc
All that said, I really like DFI and will almost certainly buy again. One other thing about DFI is that they have DFI Street, one of the better motherboard forums out there. Actually, in my opinion, it's the best MB forum, though some may disagree. There are tons of folks on that forum who are very helpful in tracking down problems and giving advice about their DFI boards.

Unfortunately, the DFI Street forums that you and I used and loved in the heydays of the nForce Ultra-D days is long gone. In January 2007 the guy who ran DFI Street, Travis Hill, and DFI parted ways over some sort of business disagreement. DFI still has support forums which can be found at http://csd.dficlub.org/forum/index.php. I can't attest to their helpfulness as I haven't had a DFI mobo since those Ultra-D days.

 

[JCKC]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I agree that every board manufacturer is going to put out boards that have one problem or another. My goal is just to find a board that gives me the best performance and reliability for the dollar, without having to overclock, SLI, CrossFire, RAID, etc.

When selecting DFI, I was just basing that on the board reviews found on NewEgg. I figure the better the reviews, the better the board must be. But I also understand I can't rely on user reviews alone so I've been spending a lot of time here reading what everyone has to say.

Since I don't plan on building until September, I have plenty of time to learn more. Keep the advice coming asI sincerely appreciate it.
________________
JohnC- Kechi, KS

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: JCKC
My goal is just to find a board that gives me the best performance and reliability for the dollar, without having to overclock, SLI, CrossFire, RAID, etc.

Buy the cheapest Intel chipset board with the features you want. If you don't overclock or tweak, then pretty much all boards would perform the same (on a per-chipset basis) and be stable. If you don't need SLI, Crossfire, RAID... what about Firewire? If you want that, then find the cheapest board with it built-in. Otherwise, look for a P43 chipset board as it will do what you want with minimal fuss and cost $100 or less.

 

[JCKC]

Thanks Zap,

Nope, no need for Firewire either. Don't get me wrong; I'm not necessarily looking for the cheapest board possible; in fact, price is not really a concern. I have no problem paying a little extra to get a *good* board.

The boards I am currently leaning towards are the DFI Bloodiron board or the DFI Lanparty P35-T2RS. Although both boards just have the P35 chipset, they both come with a lot of positve reviews.

Based on what I am looking for (and NOT looking for), what benefits would a P43 chipset give me over the P35? I'll do some searching here on the MB forum to see what I can gather but I just thought I'd ask here as well.
_________________
JohnC - Kechi, KS

 

[Gillbot]

My recent DFI experience has been less than stellar thus far. This board is so picky/quirky that I have a hard time getting it to boot stable at stock speeds sometimes. One small hardware change seems to send it into a downward spiral which usually ends in a torrent of expletives until I finally make so many changes I've lost count, then it seems to boot and work fine only if to mock me!

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: Gillbot
My recent DFI experience has been less than stellar thus far. This board is so picky/quirky that I have a hard time getting it to boot stable at stock speeds sometimes. One small hardware change seems to send it into a downward spiral which usually ends in a torrent of expletives until I finally make so many changes I've lost count, then it seems to boot and work fine only if to mock me!

A little more details? DFI boards haven't failed me yet so it makes me curious. I've heard about some instances where early revision boards were bugged (or a lacking chipset like RD580), but that applies to any brand.

 

[Gillbot]

Details as in what?

I pulled my 7900GS to add a 8800GTS, board would no longer post. Stuck on C1 error. I had to pull everything out except video and 1 stick of ram, clear Cmos over and over till it would post, add the 2nd stick of ram, reboot, add the rest of the hardware then it finally got into windows.

Had to repeat the entire process over when I pulled my Buffalo Firestix 2x1GB ram and put in the Adata 2x2GB ram.

When I try to OC my Q6600, if I go over 3.0-3.2G, the board will reboot itself then continue with the C1 error and I get to repeat the process above till I get it to post again. I have completely given up trying to OC this board because i'm tired of redoing my settings over and over since I repeatedly have to clear CMOS.

The sad thing is, I got this DFI hoping to get my Q6600 to 3.6 and it runs it worse than my Neo2-FR did. At least the Neo2-FR got it to 3.4 prime stable under a ACF7Pro, even with horrible vdroop. This board instantly reboots as soon as I hit go on prime at anything over 3.1-3.2GHz with up to 1.5v VTT and 1.5V core like the go button is directly hooked to the reset switch. No fail, no error, just plain hard reboot the instant you hit go.

I've gone through the settings until i'm blue in the face and IMHO, this DFI is complete shit. In my entire OC experience, i've never seen a mobo so quirky and impossible to use. Plus, DFI support is horrid.

Come to think of it, most of my C1 errors started when I updated to the latest bios. Maybe I need to flash back? At least then I could get to 3.4 even though it wasn't prime stable. At least then I didn't have to fight with the C1 error AS MUCH, though it would still do it randomly.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: lopri

Originally posted by: Gillbot
My recent DFI experience has been less than stellar thus far. This board is so picky/quirky that I have a hard time getting it to boot stable at stock speeds sometimes. One small hardware change seems to send it into a downward spiral which usually ends in a torrent of expletives until I finally make so many changes I've lost count, then it seems to boot and work fine only if to mock me!

A little more details? DFI boards haven't failed me yet so it makes me curious. I've heard about some instances where early revision boards were bugged (or a lacking chipset like RD580), but that applies to any brand.

ROFL lopri im trying to help him.

Its gone so bad, im sending him a gaurentee 3.73 ghzer for him to test.

But if you have any ideas shoot. Im a bit lost on gill now.

I even gave him set GTL values. OH SNAP GILL!!! you been resetting the GTL values each voltage right?

The GTL values i gave you were for 1.45 to 1.5

Flash back to a different bios. Maybe thats it too.

BUT WAIT!! so we can rule cpu out.

 

[lopri]

That's.. a little too much details than I'd expected.. heh.. Been there done that, I can feel the pain you'd taken. If that's the case, to be frank, I have to say the board must be at fault there. Just going by the fact that you had a problem with PCIe 1.0 -> PCIe 2.0 (assuming the vid card was free of defect) says the board wasn't designed properly. Do you know the revision of your board? It can be hard to find it because it's usually silk-screen'ed or sticker'ed somewhere hidden on the board.

I am sorry to hear your terrible experience. I guess DFI isn't the be-all-and-end-all after all.

 

[scaryfast]

I too was impressed with the reviews for the DFI LANPARTY DK P35-T2RS.

I need 8 gig of Ram, so four 2gig sticks... and on their site for this motherboard they have a page titled "recommended memory for overclocking". On that page they have only 2 types recommended for size 2048 memory; and they are both only 667 speed.

I was just about to post for :music:help in the memory section,,,,,going there next.

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: lopri
That's.. a little too much details than I'd expected.. heh.. Been there done that, I can feel the pain you'd taken. If that's the case, to be frank, I have to say the board must be at fault there. Just going by the fact that you had a problem with PCIe 1.0 -> PCIe 2.0 (assuming the vid card was free of defect) says the board wasn't designed properly. Do you know the revision of your board? It can be hard to find it because it's usually silk-screen'ed or sticker'ed somewhere hidden on the board.

I am sorry to hear your terrible experience. I guess DFI isn't the be-all-and-end-all after all.

Aigo's been trying but he fails to accept this is a bunk board. I think it's 100% a bunk board or i'm just a complete moron. <- Don't rule this out, i've been known to overlook the obvious when i'm frustrated and i'm well past frustrated with this mobo.

Yes Aigo, i've been messing with the GTL values all over the place. I've tried high, low, auto, you name it. I can't even get this board to run stable defaults since it refuses to cold boot.

I'm tempted to grab another mobo, toss all my gear into it and pull this one out to send off for someone to torcher. I just know my wife would MURDER me if I spent $1 on another PC part when this one was supposed to "fix" it once and for all.

I have so much $ into this system trying to hit 3.6 that i'm about 1 second away from selling it all and buying a laptop. If there was a reasonably priced laptop that would run supcom at a decent framerate, it'd be over for this rig.

 

[KeaBorg]

*cough* IP35-E *cough*

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: KeaBorg
*cough* IP35-E *cough*

pass, you have droop issues too

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

I've had 3 DFI boards, currently running the LT P35 board with a Q6600 @ 3.5Ghz/1.39V. It was a pretty easy OC for me, and I am running 8Gig of RAM at DDR2-780 (FSB is like 390, so slightly under spec). While the DFI boards have a lot of options, if you aren't interested in getting the last point in a benchmark, or shaving 1/100th sec of a superpi time, you can leave a lot of those settings at default/auto.

I didn't even have to play with GTL settings to get to 3.5GHz, and it's been rock stable once I was done testing. Of course everything is a big YMMV, but I haven't had problems with any of my three boards.

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat
I've had 3 DFI boards, currently running the LT P35 board with a Q6600 @ 3.5Ghz/1.39V. It was a pretty easy OC for me, and I am running 8Gig of RAM at DDR2-780 (FSB is like 390, so slightly under spec). While the DFI boards have a lot of options, if you aren't interested in getting the last point in a benchmark, or shaving 1/100th sec of a superpi time, you can leave a lot of those settings at default/auto.

I didn't even have to play with GTL settings to get to 3.5GHz, and it's been rock stable once I was done testing. Of course everything is a big YMMV, but I haven't had problems with any of my three boards.

I wish mine behaved as well as yours.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Well, I did say it was a big YMMV

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat
Well, I did say it was a big YMMV

Well, after using Aigo's cherry Q66 chip, I will still say that this DFI is the MOST pain in the ...... well. You get the point. This has been the most difficult board to OC in my LIFE!

Using Aigo's chip, I literally fought tooth and nail to get this DFI to post. Cleared CMOS, held insert, home, delete, mashed the KB, stood on one foot, cleared CMOS again, barked at the mood, cleared CMOS again and FINALLY I got it to POST after numerous C1, 4E, 52/25 and multiple other errors. Seems as though C1 is the most popular though. It just sits on C1 as soon as you hit power. Resetting and power cycling it over and over and over and over and...... (you get the idea) will finally get it to post most of the time.

After it posted, I went into bios, set to defaults and reooted. When it fired up I went back into bios, set the vcore to 1.45, the VTT to 1.4, the mem divider from auto to 1:1 and the FSB to 400. Went right into windows and is currently running along in prime95 at 52C max temp after 20 minutes. The highest I got my chip prime stable was 3.4GHz at 1.45v core with a 52c core temp max.

I had high hopes for this DFI LT P35 and my Q6600. Sadly, it looks as though I wasted $ on this DFI board expecting it to get me to 3.6GHz when my MSI Neo2-FR topped at 3.4GHz. Sure, it was a small struggle to get the Neo2-FR to 3.4GHz but it was a $60 board with horrible vdroop!!! I expected much more from a board that cost over twice as much. The only gain on this DFI was a slightly better vcore to get to 3.4GHz but to me, it wasn't worth the extra $.

 

[aigomorla]

gill do you have your ram set at 1T or 2T?

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: Rike
Unfortunately, the DFI Street forums that you and I used and loved in the heydays of the nForce Ultra-D days is long gone. In January 2007 the guy who ran DFI Street, Travis Hill, and DFI parted ways over some sort of business disagreement.

heh, there was no business disagreement. DFI became increasingly concerned with how the forum's management culture was reflecting negatively upon DFI. Travis Hill is a first rate a--hole who gives new meaning to the term "power trip". He routinely posted profanity-laden diatribes or injected political commentary into various discussions, then used his moderator powers to influence the debate in favor of whatever side he agreed with. One of his favorite tricks is to verbally attack or insult someone with an opposing viewpoint or position, then lock the thread so he can have the last word and prevent any rebuttal.

I guess you could say it was a business disagreement, if that means 'we no longer want you associated with our business in any way, shape, or form.'